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dianthus
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27 Jan 2012, 11:22 pm

hanyo wrote:
In my experience telling the bully (if they were intentionally bullying at least) just gave them the satisfaction that they were bothering you and just made them do it more. I was always told to just ignore it which didn't work either.


Same for me.



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28 Jan 2012, 12:32 am

hanyo wrote:
TalusJumper wrote:
Telling the bully to stop is like fanning the flames; telling an authority about it was like putting gasoline on the fire- both just added to the harassment level for me (the bullies would get smarter and not get caught).


In my experience telling the bully (if they were intentionally bullying at least) just gave them the satisfaction that they were bothering you and just made them do it more. I was always told to just ignore it which didn't work either.


Exactly- they would just take it to the next level!



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28 Jan 2012, 12:55 am

I hate false accusations, if anyone ever falsely accused me of bullying them, I would never speak to them again and label them as being too sensitive and having something wrong with them and yes that would mean they lose me as a friend. Or if they told me that on the wrong day, they may face real bullying from me and that is just me still being myself and not doing anything just to piss them off hoping they get mad at me because that was how hurt I was by the false accusation. It would make me just want to do it more to them. So no don't say anything because you could be wrong and the person may be very hurt and offended and it may escalate the situation further. :evil:



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28 Jan 2012, 1:17 am

TalusJumper wrote:
hanyo wrote:
TalusJumper wrote:
Telling the bully to stop is like fanning the flames; telling an authority about it was like putting gasoline on the fire- both just added to the harassment level for me (the bullies would get smarter and not get caught).


In my experience telling the bully (if they were intentionally bullying at least) just gave them the satisfaction that they were bothering you and just made them do it more. I was always told to just ignore it which didn't work either.


Exactly- they would just take it to the next level!


Exactly, that's what happened to me when I took the "just ignore it" advice.



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28 Jan 2012, 1:21 am

I don't know. What if it's genuinely mistaken vs. false? If someone says they genuinely feel I hurt them, I usually clear it up and apologize. There is one person who has accused me of so many things that I can't take her seriously or genuinely when she's upset (like the boy who cried wolf). I do recall one instance on this forum when someone told me I was behaving badly but wasn't explaining why, and I had no idea what he meant - I didn't want to be, but I didn't understand the complaint.

There is another occasion when I was deliberately mean, but it was after months of intermittent provocation.

I'm getting sidetracked: What I mean is, I know it's possible for me to make a mistake and be unintentionally awful to someone.



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28 Jan 2012, 3:02 am

I would say that bullying is purposely hurting another person physically or emotionally.

I used to get beaten pretty badly at school. I was cut with scissors,kicked,slammed against walls,punched in the stomach and spit on.
This would be considered severe bullying.

Making fun of some ones appearance or clothing would be considered mild bullying.

Bullying can hurt a person very badly. I have horrible and realistic flashbacks of my highschool years.
I can still hear people laughing at me and I can see them beat me inside of my head.
I am an emotional wreck from being bullied. The strange thing is that I hate and blame myself for it.


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28 Jan 2012, 4:56 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
I think bullying is when you intentionally say or do things to hurt or control another person.....I would say bullying and abusing are close to the same thing since bullying would be a form of abuse.


That's exactly how I see it, too.


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28 Jan 2012, 5:29 am

MrXxx wrote:
I have seen countless times people who speak in what they say is "just being honest" ways, who are told what they are saying isn't appreciated and is abusive, who then reject the insinuation and place the blame for hurt feelings squarely on the shoulders of the one who is hurt. That's just wrong. Period.


That's my brother-in-law's M.O. to a tee.


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28 Jan 2012, 6:32 am

In my experience it is ongoing harassment and intimidation, usually by one group of people attacking an individual.

For example: Repeated name calling, using threats and physical violence to intimidate, mocking the person with the intent to publicly humiliate them and inciting hatred against them. In some cases, particularly online, stalking can also occur (where they follow you for a number of years from site to site and try to get your personal details such as home address and phone number etc. These types usually include some kind of direct threat (made by them) that affects your real world security and or safety).

This has been my experience of bullying. When I say I was bullied I am usually referring to the above ^. On going harassment by a group of people attacking an individual, not someone just being a bit rude or grumpy etc.

Someone who is just rude or just snaps at you because they are having an off moment is not a bully. That does not bother me, but ongoing harassment and intimidation does, especially if I cannot get away from it and I am dealing with a group of people rather than just one person (uneven odds).

Bullying (in my view) is something that tends to continue on for an extended period of time and which causes a lot of mental distress in the victim.



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28 Jan 2012, 8:37 am

I would say deliberate harassment for the sake of harassment.


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28 Jan 2012, 8:42 am

hanyo wrote:
In my experience telling the bully (if they were intentionally bullying at least) just gave them the satisfaction that they were bothering you and just made them do it more. I was always told to just ignore it which didn't work either.


It is impossible for me to ignore something hurtful. I usually don't respond (except for fear and panic reactions), but these experiences haunt me forever. I still have vivid nightmares of the hurtful things people have said and done to me 25 years ago.



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28 Jan 2012, 8:49 am

Marcia wrote:
... "behaviour which is intentionally hurtful and which continues over time."


ValentineWiggin wrote:
I would say deliberate harassment for the sake of harassment.


I see bullying as a combination of these two.

I would specify though that the hurtful or harrassing behavior of bullies is directed against a person or group, not against a belief held by a group. Criticizing a philosophy, belief, world view, political opinion, paradigm, or scientific hypothesis might be hurtful to the believer, but it is usually not a personal attack against an individual.



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28 Jan 2012, 9:03 am

OliveOilMom wrote:
What if you need to temporarily control the other person for their own good? Is that bullying? If the "bully" has the other persons best intentions in mind, is it bullying to force them to do something by using tactics that intimidate?


It depends. Comments like "you are useless, you can't do anything right, you will never amount to anything" are definitely hurtful, insulting and demeaning, and I would classify this as bullying. But a reasonable approach like "if you don't change your behavior, it will have negative consequences for you" is meant to help and encourage rather than hurt.

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Or what about a boss? If a boss tells you in no uncertain terms to either get a job done or you are fired, is that bullying?


That again depends on the wording, imho. If a boss calls an employee an idiot, he has crossed the line between criticism and bullying. But "if your work performance does not improve, I'll have to let you go" is completely acceptable. After all, the employer has a contract with the employee. If the employee cannot hold up his end of the contract, it will have to be terminated.

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Are drill instructors bullies because of how they scream and yell at you and break you down to instill immediate obedience into you, which can save your life on a battlefield?


Yes, definitely. As you said yourself, this behavior is meant to break people. It doesn't matter that they are rebuilt as a cog in the war machine. That only adds insult to injury. No human being should ever be stripped of their personality like that. It is one reason why so many war veterans have problems adjusting to a normal civil life after their military service.



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28 Jan 2012, 11:27 am

I think bullying requires the intention to bully, whether or not the bully thinks of it in terms of the word bullying. Making fun of somebody, etc.

I don't think that a one time incident that is caused by something else (bad mood, the person being bullied genuinely did something wrong, etc) is actual bullying and shouldn't be labeled as such, because it dimishes the seriousness of real bullying.

As for drill instructors, I think that even though they fit the description of bully to a t, that they aren't bullies. That is how they are trained to teach their recruits and they do so for a reason. They don't usually go around doing that to people who they aren't supposed to do it to, so I wouldn't call them bullies. Recruits know what to expect from boot camp, so they know that it's not personal, even though the DI usually says some very personal remarks to them during it. I think that's done to also toughen them up. If a guy is going to cry and get his feelings hurt when the DI screams at him or calls him names, he won't survive in a situation where people are trying to kill him.

Teachers pushing students to do the work that the teacher knows they can do aren't bullies either, I wouldn't think.

I don't think we can label something as bullying just because someone feels bullied. That can be pretty dangerous to do.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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28 Jan 2012, 11:47 am

OliveOilMom wrote:
This may need to be moved to PPR, but I don't know. Thought I'd post it here first and see how it goes.

Since I've been on WP I've read stories of horrific bullying and I've also seen things that obviously are not bullying referred to as bullying.

So I want to ask what is your definition of bullying? And can you give examples please?

I have seen people say that someone bullied them into doing something they needed to do, ie; take prescribed and needed medication, eat, take a bath, etc. I have seen people call a simply rude person a "bully", I have seen people refer to parenting tactics as "bullying" or teachers "bullying" you into doing homework.

Where does it end? Is anyone who doesn't ask in a nice voice, and give many other options, a bully? Is someone a bully simply because we have AS and we don't like their demeanor? Or is bullying the territory of that one crazy person who actually physically assaults us or calls us crazy names for no reason at all? One extreme or the other, or somewhere in the middle?

What do you think?

I'll post what I think later on, I want to see responses and discuss it, not simply dictate what I think is and isn't.

Let's say a parent wants a kid to finish their homework. Simple request any parent has the right to make. The parent says, " you need to get your homework finished so you can turn it in tomorrow and not have it be a zero." That is not bullying. It is just simply stating facts. However, it is ultimately up to the person doing the homework to actually get it done. They have to take some responsibility in this, too. If the person doing the homework is reluctant, the parent can get the homework out, look at it and find out from the person why they don't want to do it. Maybe they don't understand it? Maybe something happened at school and they are stressed out and cannot concentrate? They just need to unwind. Finding out this information is not bullying, it is helping. Bullying is when the parent yells, "Do that homework or you will get your butt whipped. Do you want to be stupid for the rest of your life?" See the difference? Which one of these responses from the parent is really going to get the best results from the person doing the homework?

Bullying is insulting, unreasonable, often threats of violence occur. Anyone who threatens to commit bodily harm to another for not doing what they demand is a bully. That includes all parents who threaten to hit, then hit, their kids. It might not be what parents want to hear, but it is what it is. People need to ask themselves if they want to be talked to that way? Do they think if they were threatened with bodily harm when they didn't want to do something, would it make them want to do it? Of course, they would do it to escape repercussions, but wouldn't they rather have the rational approach?

After all, criminals who get thrown in jail often start out by communicating,
"give me all your money or I'll blow your head off."

Think of better ways to resolve conflicts and quit making excuses for bullying behavior.



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28 Jan 2012, 12:15 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
I think bullying requires the intention to bully, whether or not the bully thinks of it in terms of the word bullying. Making fun of somebody, etc.

I don't think that a one time incident that is caused by something else (bad mood, the person being bullied genuinely did something wrong, etc) is actual bullying and shouldn't be labeled as such, because it dimishes the seriousness of real bullying.

As for drill instructors, I think that even though they fit the description of bully to a t, that they aren't bullies. That is how they are trained to teach their recruits and they do so for a reason. They don't usually go around doing that to people who they aren't supposed to do it to, so I wouldn't call them bullies. Recruits know what to expect from boot camp, so they know that it's not personal, even though the DI usually says some very personal remarks to them during it. I think that's done to also toughen them up. If a guy is going to cry and get his feelings hurt when the DI screams at him or calls him names, he won't survive in a situation where people are trying to kill him.

Teachers pushing students to do the work that the teacher knows they can do aren't bullies either, I wouldn't think.

I don't think we can label something as bullying just because someone feels bullied. That can be pretty dangerous to do.


Well no its not the best to label something as bullying unless one can be sure.......if someone says or does something with the intention of harrasing the other person that is bullying. Misunderstandings can happen but usually those can be addressed with communication. Like if someone says something to someone and they take it as bullying then they can talk about it and come to the conclusion it was a mis-understanding.


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