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Billybones
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16 Feb 2012, 3:51 pm

Wow. Interesting reading. Thanks for the link. I never knew that things were that far gone in the UK. This is one of the most outrageous & offensive things I've ever seen coming from a democratic country. Until now I've never been immersed in the details of this, but to me it all comes down to whether we are free individuals with rights & dignity, or just disposable cogs in the machinery of economic production. Refuse! Resist!

Here in America we've become accustomed to right-wingers & self-styled "libertarians" heaping scorn on anyone who might need to use a government service. But in spite of all this, we've been able to react to the economic crisis with expansionary policies (low interest rates, economic stimulus through increased government spending, extra benefits & wealth transfers, etc.), rather than European-style austerity. And it appears that these policies have started to bear fruit, as things seem to be turning around with our economy, albeit slowly.

In a similar vein, I suppose, the American right are presently trying to push through a law to impose drug-testing as a condition for receiving unemployment benefits. (They are probably going to get it.) Whatever the merits of suspicionless drug-testing in various job situations (I will allow that in certain jobs, safety considerations may have priority), it is always an invasive & degrading procedure. As with any drug-testing regime, a refusal to submit draws the same consequences as a positive test - dismissal from a job, or if this comes to pass, the revocation of unemployment benefits. There is no presumption of innocence, no protection from self-incrimination, no regard for a person's right to privacy.

One purpose of such a law would be to create a new bar to entry. But the larger purpose is to stigmatize, to make the receipt of unemployment benefits as difficult & degrading as possible. But the larger point is this: if the government can require a person to surrender fundamental rights as a condition of receiving a benefit or service, that would be a major lurch toward authoritarianism. But sometimes it seems like we're already halfway there.



psych
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16 Feb 2012, 5:28 pm

VMSmith wrote:
this is good- that sainsburys's has backed down and the unions have said something but i was wondering just how militant is this union? i'm not really familiar with the british trade unions and i was wondering if the unions were intending on entering into more than talks with the bosses? call me a pessimist but i dont see the bosses easily relenquishing the easy slave labour force they currently have. i know if it were the Shop, Distributive and Allied Employees union here the workers would have been willingly sold out. possibly the most corrupt union ever.


The Commercial Workers Union (royal mail workers) are unrepentantly backing workfare. Royal mail staff have have faced a lot of well publicised disputes in recent years and IIRC gone on strike several times. That will not be so easy now with a slave workforce to walk through picket lines.

As if being a slave isnt enough to recieve subsistence benefits - now you will have to be a scab too.



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16 Feb 2012, 6:13 pm

Billybones wrote:
In a similar vein, I suppose, the American right are presently trying to push through a law to impose drug-testing as a condition for receiving unemployment benefits. (They are probably going to get it.) Whatever the merits of suspicionless drug-testing in various job situations (I will allow that in certain jobs, safety considerations may have priority), it is always an invasive & degrading procedure. As with any drug-testing regime, a refusal to submit draws the same consequences as a positive test - dismissal from a job, or if this comes to pass, the revocation of unemployment benefits. There is no presumption of innocence, no protection from self-incrimination, no regard for a person's right to privacy.


I was watching an old tv show recently where there was drug testing and one person had a lot of problems because they had a false positive. I had a false positive myself once when I was a teenager.

If I'm ever less of a recluse that might someday be a problem for me. I don't want to do drug tests out of principle and if they actually expect to watch me go I'll refuse no matter what. Even locked up as a teenager I wouldn't let them watch me pee.



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17 Feb 2012, 2:28 am

psych wrote:
Quote:
TESCO NIGHT SHIFT

Vacancy from Jobcentre Plus
Wage JSA+EXPENSES
Hours TBC
Location EAST ANGLIA IP32
Duration Permanent


http://jobcentreplus.jobhits.co.uk/TESC ... -BSD-27442


i just noticed it says permanent???


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17 Feb 2012, 3:24 am

^

Slaves 4 eva UK!

Britons always always always shall be slaves!


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psych
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17 Feb 2012, 5:20 am

peebo wrote:
psych wrote:
Quote:
TESCO NIGHT SHIFT

Vacancy from Jobcentre Plus
Wage JSA+EXPENSES
Hours TBC
Location EAST ANGLIA IP32
Duration Permanent


http://jobcentreplus.jobhits.co.uk/TESC ... -BSD-27442


i just noticed it says permanent???


the post might be permanent, but the mandatory placement for an individual will still be the normal length. Theyve responded to say that part was a 'mistake' its helped the screencap go viral anyway.



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17 Feb 2012, 1:40 pm

a colleague at work today was saying that, according to something he seen on television relating to a parliamentary discussion yesterday (not sure what it was as i don't have a television) in addition to jsa claimants this will soon also apply to the work focused group of esa claimants. so, if you are signed off from work by your doctor and get to the point your employment is terminated through ill-health, or if you've been out of work for a long time through ill-health, you might soon find yourself stacking shelves on the night shift at tesco for no pay. it's disgusting.


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psych
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17 Feb 2012, 3:32 pm

peebo wrote:
a colleague at work today was saying that, according to something he seen on television relating to a parliamentary discussion yesterday (not sure what it was as i don't have a television) in addition to jsa claimants this will soon also apply to the work focused group of esa claimants. so, if you are signed off from work by your doctor and get to the point your employment is terminated through ill-health, or if you've been out of work for a long time through ill-health, you might soon find yourself stacking shelves on the night shift at tesco for no pay. it's disgusting.


The JSA programs at least have a time limit of 2 or 6 months. For people on disability benefits there will be no limit at all.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/ ... nefit-cuts



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17 Feb 2012, 4:23 pm

that's exactly what my colleague was saying. now that i see you're linking to an article in the guardian, i think that's where he had read it.

the disabled and sick and those unable to work on the grounds of ill-health will now simply be used as slave labour for tesco.


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Tequila
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17 Feb 2012, 4:28 pm

peebo wrote:
the disabled and sick and those unable to work on the grounds of ill-health will now simply be used as slave labour for tesco.


Another way of looking at it is that the UK taxpayer is now subsidising the largest and most successful supermarket chain in the country.



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18 Feb 2012, 2:46 am

Tequila wrote:
peebo wrote:
the disabled and sick and those unable to work on the grounds of ill-health will now simply be used as slave labour for tesco.


Another way of looking at it is that the UK taxpayer is now subsidising the largest and most successful supermarket chain in the country.


yes that is a way of looking at it, but i think the point of view that the largest and most successful supermarket chain in the country is using sick and disabled people as unpaid slave labour is infinitely worse, no?


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psych
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18 Feb 2012, 6:27 am

westminster tesco this morning
Image



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18 Feb 2012, 10:41 am

^There needs to be less talking, and more of this. And more riots, like the poll tax ones.



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18 Feb 2012, 11:33 am

smudge wrote:
And more riots, like the poll tax ones.


Civil disobedience would be far better than riots. All rioting will do is get a lot of people a kicking.



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18 Feb 2012, 5:21 pm

Tequila wrote:
smudge wrote:
And more riots, like the poll tax ones.


Civil disobedience would be far better than riots. All rioting will do is get a lot of people a kicking.


It got rid of Thatcher. That's a good thing.