Are Aspies obsessed with following rules?

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I can't help you with the case, unfortunately... but I'm one of those people described, who (used to) obsess about traffic lasws. I STILL get unusually upset when a car runs a red light in front of me (when I need to cross the zebra), and whenever I encounter a cyclist on the sidewalk, I pretty much freeze, because my brain tells me 'This does not compute. Cyclists shouldn't be on the sidewalk. Ergo, current situation is impossible'. I softened up a little, but these things still annoy me.

But I wish you good luck with your case. I'd advice you chase down all the evidence/witnesses that may prove you're innocent.

I follow a moral code, not a legal one. I should mention that most of my moral code conforms to the laws in the UK, but there are some aspects I don'd agree with. For instance, software and music piracy is fine so long as its not for profit, IMO.

I'm sure not every NT drives like a maniac.

Sometimes I break rules, but I always feel really guilty whenever I do. That's even if I have a valid reason to. I just don't like it. I want to be the good guy.

Same here really. I can appear quite difficult when a rule seems to contravene common sense or logic (I quite often couldn't understand why my parents were saying 'no' to something, even when I'd prepared a lovely little fact sheet covering the supporting evidence...). It's particularly annoying in an academic sense when they tell you to do something a certain way so that it's easier to teach or mark, even when it's not strictly the best way of doing it. I've lost a few marks just because I couldn't bring myself to go against what I perceived as the correct way of doing things.

In terms of the actual topic, I don't think the AS excuse will be very useful (may even be counter-productive) unless your diagnosis specifically mentions a strict adherence to rules.

I try to always ride on the sidewalk if there is one. I'm in a small town and most people don't walk so there's not a lot of chances of me inconveniencing someone. I do it because I'm not very confident on a bike right now, as it's been years since I've ridden one much at all. Our roads are just two lane roads with a turn lane sometimes. Only one is a four lane but it has a sidewalk. We don't have sidewalks in very many places, but they are putting more in because a lot of the old people have gotten power chairs and they go all over town in them. They go in groups, like motorcycle gangs lol. In fact thats a running joke around here.

As for traffic laws, I'm usually a stickler for the rules of the road because 1. I'm getting old and I worry about people hitting me now instead of driving fast and more recklessly like I used to and 2. I don't have a license because of a civil suit years ago that I didn't even know about until after the fact and when I found out about it I tried to fight it or appeal it but couldn't so I wasn't going to pay (If I had known about it and gone back up there to court it would have been thrown out but we had moved and my mother signed for the letter but forgot about it so I never got it) I was waiting for it to fall off the record and it finally did after 25 years. So I get my license back in April after I pay $175, and retake the test. Much better than an unjust $4k judgement. I follow the rules carefully so I don't get pulled over, although driving around town is always a throw of the dice, because the cops know I don't have a license and it depends on whose working as to if he will pull me over or not. I don't drive after 3pm because this one A** is working who always gives me grief and pulls me over. We get along outside of when he sees me driving though and we do give each other sh*t in a friendly way. An example is that last night in Wal Mart he was there, at work but had nothing to do so he was walking around "looking for shoplifters" but he was actually looking at the Alabama football shirts on sale, magazines, and snacks. He was about to buy a green banana for a snack and I was passing him and told him "Johhny Doe <not his real name> don't you buy that green nanner! It's gonna give you diahrreah!" He was taken aback. He said "It will?" I said "Yes it will! You never heard that?" He said "No, but thanks for telling me" and he put it back and got a ripe one. But, he will give me more tickets if he sees me, so I'm careful where I drive around here. When I drive in T-town or Bham it's no problem, but here, nope.

Some are, some aren't. I followed rules as a kid growing up only because I didn't like getting into trouble and I needed rules so I know what was expected. Then there were times I didn't follow them because I was confused. I learn the rules and then I see kids break them and get away with it and I would think it was okay to do. Then when I saw other kids were allowed to misbehave and I wasn't, I rebelled so I kept breaking them and getting into trouble fighting to be treated like everyone else, not singled out. I suppose the school kept punishing me to get me to follow the rules and stop copying the other kids but all that did was make me angrier and wanted to do it more. At home I didn't have this problem because mom made the rules equal and the same for all of us. I also used to break rules to see what would happen when no one would tell me why I had to follow that rule.

This is sort of off topic, but did you hate to be told by your parents and teachers etc, to stop copying the others and be yourself? I HATED that! I felt like their version of me "being myself" was just me copying them and following their advice, while copying other kids gave me more a sense of being myself. I suppose that copying others gave me more variety to choose from in finding my own personal style of looking, dressing, acting, etc. Did you feel that way somewhat?

Also, since this is off topic, do you think it would make a good thread by itself?

I was told to worry about myself and not worry about what the other kids do. I hated that. Why was it okay for them to do it and not me? I was told by my mother when I was 16 to be myself and being myself meant be an aspie so it was confusing. All I did was felt discriminated against because telling me to worry about myself and not care what other kids do made it sound like it was okay for them to do it but not me. It's possible I took it the wrong way and they maybe meant don't copy them and they didn't mean it was okay for them to do it. But they never got punished for it so making a huge fuss out of me doing it and not making a big deal out of them doing it was upsetting for me so I felt singled out and discriminated. They never said they shouldn't be doing it either nor did they ever tell me they will deal with them too. Instead they just said don't worry about them and only focus on myself. So that is why I took it the way I took it. I will never understand why that happened. My mom speculates it happened because I was a sped student. I notice special ed students tend to get treated differently than normal kids. If a normal child says they have to go potty, everyone ignores it, if a special needs students says that, the fuss is made and they are made to say bathroom. But at least mom treated my brothers and I the same. She didn't want me to feel broken or different or that I had something wrong with me.

I also brought toys to school because other kids did in my class and I also started to have key chains on my back pack because other kids did. I did it all to fit in and be normal and not be so different. I forgot that not everyone did these things but I was too focused on wanting to be like everyone else I ignored the ones who didn't do certain things. At least I had enough awareness to know what was popular. Lot of NT kids are like this. Wanting to fit in and be like their friends and they call it peer pressure. That is why some kids seem to have split personalities. They may be nice kids but when they are in school they are jerks but when they are home, they are back to being nice again. They may be with the wrong person and act like a jerk when they are with them but when they arne't with them, they aren't a jerk anymore. Then that is when parents may tell them to just be themselves. That can be confusing for someone on the spectrum. Especially if they are trying to fit in and be normal so they are watching what other kids do to see how they are supposed to be acting. But everyone may call it peer pressure. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I think autistic kids can get influenced by peer pressure. I have heard of them mimicking people to fit in so wouldn't that be peer pressure?

You are free to start that thread. It might be a good topic.

OliveOilMom, that's actually quite funny, except for the part where the cop keeps giving you tickets.

They must be kind of lenient, though, to just let you go even if you don't have a license. And not do something like confiscate your car instead. Or are they just milking you for money?

But again, that's a real pain.

Your profile says "not sure whether I have it or not". This means you don't have a formal diagnosis. With no formal diagnosis, you will not be able to apply any diagnostic criteria to your case. It will be deemed irrelevent by the judge. You need to go with a different angle.

I think everyone (Aspie or not) is obsessed with following the rules in their heads that they deem important enough to follow. If those rules happen to coincide with laws, social rules, or other unstated rules, then it's a win-win.

NTs are obsessed with following social and conformity rules.

Please stop putting all NT's into one catagory and villifying them for it. Not every NT cares anything at all about social rules and conformity. Lots and lots of NT's do their own thing and don't care what anyone else does.

IMHO, there's a gigantic misunderstanding among both NTs and Aspies about what's meant by the stereotype "likes rules". This is a big issue for me, because it's why I slipped through the cracks and defied classification as "Aspie" for more that 10 years.

"rules" are how we learn to feign NT-ness. We observe others, note their behavioral responses, and come up with internalized flowcharts, scripts, and UML-like diagrams to plan our future social interactions.

As children, we "like" rules, because they clarify what's expected of us. Eventually, we notice that others routinely break those rules & get away with it. Then, the Big Divergence begins:

Some Aspies get paralyzed by anxiety, feel singled-out for persecution, and become neurotic about following rules to the letter -- even when it results in absurd outcomes & they *know* it will. In a way, they rebel through passive-aggressive martyrdom.

Others (particularly, those at the "ADD" end of the spectrum) go into open rebellion against externally-imposed rules and become reflexively defiant, even when they agree with the rule. They have the same anxiety about being singled out for selective enforcement, but are equally incapable of figuring out the "unwritten" rules, so THEY indiscriminately rebel against everything.

Of course, adults are more complicated than kids. For the most part, I fall into the "defiant" group, but in situations with asymmetric balance of power that's overwhelmingly against me, I become a passive-aggressive rule-following martyr instead... hating & despising them for putting me in that position of indignity, and endlessly plotting my future escape from their grasp.

On the other hand, the "rules" (script, flowcharts, etc) that we make for ourselves are inviolate and sacred, as long as we want them to be. The fastest way to make any Aspie "go nuclear" is to force him to violate internal rules he holds sacred & watch him throw a RuleViolationException (a subclass of human.aspie.MeltdownableException ).

Last edited by dr01dguy on 19 Feb 2012, 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

I'm a stickler for rules...if I feel that the rule is logical. If a rule doesn't make logical sense to me, I'll basically become resentful of the rule, and purposefully ignore it. Also, I'll sometimes break rules that I DO agree with, because I find they may conflict with sensory issues (if I'm driving a short distance, I won't wear a seatbelt, even though I feel it's important...I hate the way it feels).

I've had two tickets in my 7 years of driving: wearing a seatbelt under my arm, instead of the correct way (they had a road block set up and were guiding people around...noticed my seatbelt), and failure to attach my license plate to the front of my car (stupid, stupid law that defaces pretty cars...who in the world is going to see/notice the front of your car, in the event you're doing something illegal?).

Anyway, I don't think bringing this up would assist you in court. Yes, it's true that if you feel the rule is important, you will be unlikely to break it, but there is absolutely no way to prove that, and others have said, it may backfire on you.