If a person is defective, they should be eliminated

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androbot2084
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17 Mar 2012, 12:09 pm

Neurotypicals eliminate autistics by firing them. This is a form of economic violence.



Sweetleaf
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17 Mar 2012, 12:14 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
DoneOver wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Its an incredibly selfish and animalistic society that we live in. The less ethical and more self-centered people get, the harder economies get strained, the more 'apt' or likely they are to start pondering such solutions. I'm not saying it would necessarily ever come to that in the bigger scheme of things but this is a topic that needs serious attention because it will be on people's minds, I'd hate to see anyone successfully demagogue on behalf of the idea, and I also worry about all the anti-cure autistics mainly because I wonder quite often if they really know the full scope and vulnerability of our situation.

This is somewhat contradictory. You say selfishness breeds societal weakness and yet you bring in something about anti-cure autistics even though they are insisting on fighting selfish ideas about what humanity should be.

Its dangerous for them because, I really get the impression the more liberal and entitled we start thinking (the "I can't hold a job, I live off the system but don't you dare try to cure me - I'm not disabled, just different") the faster we move autism to the sh**list and, I really hate to say it but, I don't think the left is out to help people at all - if anything I think goodhearted people are just used as Trotsky's 'useful idiots' and once the changes take place they'll be disposed of fast once the current checks and balances to keep something like that from happening are gone.


So anyone who is disabled is obligated to want to be cured and try to be cured? See I see your point that some people tend to be a little bit hypocritical but that is people in general. Thing is if someone has a disibility that makes things difficult for them there should be a safety network to help provide for those who can't nessisarly make it on their own due to it. Demonizing people who use that safety net or consider using it does not do any good.

Also I dont like the implication that us people with AS better become pro-cure and try to blend in if we don't want to get sent to the death camps. I would think that would be more of a reason to stand up for our rights to exist and the idea everyone deserves a chance at life.



techstepgenr8tion
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18 Mar 2012, 9:20 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
So anyone who is disabled is obligated to want to be cured and try to be cured? See I see your point that some people tend to be a little bit hypocritical but that is people in general. Thing is if someone has a disibility that makes things difficult for them there should be a safety network to help provide for those who can't nessisarly make it on their own due to it. Demonizing people who use that safety net or consider using it does not do any good.

That's all well and good in a healthy economy but if and when society should ever find itself backed against a wall and is faced with really ugly problems it may be forced to equally ugly solutions. The arguments also not about whether hypocrisy is abnormal, it is though an argument that our particular hypocrisy could be of great danger to us.

Sweetleaf wrote:
Also I dont like the implication that us people with AS better become pro-cure and try to blend in if we don't want to get sent to the death camps. I would think that would be more of a reason to stand up for our rights to exist and the idea everyone deserves a chance at life.
Well.... cross your fingers and hope we never have full societal or economic collapse.


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androbot2084
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18 Mar 2012, 10:37 am

The nuerotypicals are already telling autistic people to shut up and not talk about anything because they find us so annoying. With this level of oppression its no wonder many of us are losing our ability to speak to such a degree that we require artificial communication devices.



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18 Mar 2012, 11:06 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
So anyone who is disabled is obligated to want to be cured and try to be cured? See I see your point that some people tend to be a little bit hypocritical but that is people in general. Thing is if someone has a disibility that makes things difficult for them there should be a safety network to help provide for those who can't nessisarly make it on their own due to it. Demonizing people who use that safety net or consider using it does not do any good.

That's all well and good in a healthy economy but if and when society should ever find itself backed against a wall and is faced with really ugly problems it may be forced to equally ugly solutions. The arguments also not about whether hypocrisy is abnormal, it is though an argument that our particular hypocrisy could be of great danger to us.

Yes humans are capable of horrible things especially under stress, even so killing off the defective would still be quite wrong. Of course it can happen though

Sweetleaf wrote:
Also I dont like the implication that us people with AS better become pro-cure and try to blend in if we don't want to get sent to the death camps. I would think that would be more of a reason to stand up for our rights to exist and the idea everyone deserves a chance at life.
Well.... cross your fingers and hope we never have full societal or economic collapse.


I am not quite sure what your implying...I said if it comes down to people being killed for being 'defective' that should be more of a reason for us to fight back or something.....regardless of what contributes to such policies being instated.



Last edited by Sweetleaf on 18 Mar 2012, 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sweetleaf
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18 Mar 2012, 11:07 am

androbot2084 wrote:
The nuerotypicals are already telling autistic people to shut up and not talk about anything because they find us so annoying. With this level of oppression its no wonder many of us are losing our ability to speak to such a degree that we require artificial communication devices.


I have not had any neurotypicals tell me to shut up just because I have aspergers....but that's just me.



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18 Mar 2012, 11:12 am

OKAY- But this is exactly what the Nazis wanted.

Everyone has a right to exist and to reproduce. You can't take away that right from them....



androbot2084
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18 Mar 2012, 11:13 am

Neurotypicals tell me to shut up so I can hold down a job.



Woofer123
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18 Mar 2012, 11:30 am

OKAY- But this is exactly what the Nazis wanted.

Everyone has a right to exist and to reproduce. You can't take away that right from them....



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18 Mar 2012, 12:21 pm

I'm going to be a little bit of the devil's advocate here. But look at any natural society. Mother apes, and other mammal mothers leave their child behind if they sense there is something wrong with the baby. Technically the same could have been said for those whom were defective in a human society. We're all still animals and still abide by the natural systems and rules. Other animals abandoned their defective children to ensure the survival of their own species and the survival of stronger genes. We only made the natural system wrong morally because we're human.



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18 Mar 2012, 1:00 pm

Pandora_Box wrote:
I'm going to be a little bit of the devil's advocate here. But look at any natural society. Mother apes, and other mammal mothers leave their child behind if they sense there is something wrong with the baby. Technically the same could have been said for those whom were defective in a human society. We're all still animals and still abide by the natural systems and rules. Other animals abandoned their defective children to ensure the survival of their own species and the survival of stronger genes. We only made the natural system wrong morally because we're human.


I guess we have to decide if we want to be humans or animals than....also in those situations in nature, sometimes there are other factors involved such as maybe putting a baby who will only suffer out of it's misery, or having an inability to care for it. But thing is that's animals humans seem to typically veiw themselves as higher beings than animals so why do we want to throw human nature out the window and resort to basic animal instincts.



techstepgenr8tion
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18 Mar 2012, 1:13 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Pandora_Box wrote:
I'm going to be a little bit of the devil's advocate here. But look at any natural society. Mother apes, and other mammal mothers leave their child behind if they sense there is something wrong with the baby. Technically the same could have been said for those whom were defective in a human society. We're all still animals and still abide by the natural systems and rules. Other animals abandoned their defective children to ensure the survival of their own species and the survival of stronger genes. We only made the natural system wrong morally because we're human.


I guess we have to decide if we want to be humans or animals than....also in those situations in nature, sometimes there are other factors involved such as maybe putting a baby who will only suffer out of it's misery, or having an inability to care for it. But thing is that's animals humans seem to typically veiw themselves as higher beings than animals so why do we want to throw human nature out the window and resort to basic animal instincts.

We don't, just that if we want to see where our patterns of cruelty come from and come up with ways to make those evils obsolete we'll get a lot farther in solving many of society's problems. It means that we need to be able to look at this stuff, dissect it, and understand it for what it is without flinching. The types of corrections we need aren't things we can legislate or mandate in any top-down manner.


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18 Mar 2012, 1:16 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Pandora_Box wrote:
I'm going to be a little bit of the devil's advocate here. But look at any natural society. Mother apes, and other mammal mothers leave their child behind if they sense there is something wrong with the baby. Technically the same could have been said for those whom were defective in a human society. We're all still animals and still abide by the natural systems and rules. Other animals abandoned their defective children to ensure the survival of their own species and the survival of stronger genes. We only made the natural system wrong morally because we're human.


I guess we have to decide if we want to be humans or animals than....also in those situations in nature, sometimes there are other factors involved such as maybe putting a baby who will only suffer out of it's misery, or having an inability to care for it. But thing is that's animals humans seem to typically veiw themselves as higher beings than animals so why do we want to throw human nature out the window and resort to basic animal instincts.

We don't, just that if we want to see where our patterns of cruelty come from and come up with ways to make those evils obsolete we'll get a lot farther in solving many of society's problems. It means that we need to be able to look at this stuff, dissect it, and understand it for what it is without flinching. The types of corrections we need aren't things we can legislate or mandate in any top-down manner.


I can't disagree with that, and the only reason I brought up anything about legal policies would be, I would disagree with any attempts the government made to eliminate the 'defective' if such a thing were to take place....not that we need to enforce laws to try and change peoples mindset about things it is better to educate people. sorry if I misread anything.



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18 Mar 2012, 1:22 pm

People who commit rape child molestation and infanticide should be eliminated.



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18 Mar 2012, 1:26 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Pandora_Box wrote:
I'm going to be a little bit of the devil's advocate here. But look at any natural society. Mother apes, and other mammal mothers leave their child behind if they sense there is something wrong with the baby. Technically the same could have been said for those whom were defective in a human society. We're all still animals and still abide by the natural systems and rules. Other animals abandoned their defective children to ensure the survival of their own species and the survival of stronger genes. We only made the natural system wrong morally because we're human.


I guess we have to decide if we want to be humans or animals than....also in those situations in nature, sometimes there are other factors involved such as maybe putting a baby who will only suffer out of it's misery, or having an inability to care for it. But thing is that's animals humans seem to typically veiw themselves as higher beings than animals so why do we want to throw human nature out the window and resort to basic animal instincts.


Human is no different from animal. We're still very much in control by our biological urges. To reproduce, to pass on our genes, the way we find a mater, the way we select mates, the way we think, etc. People like to think we are not ruled by our instincts, but that is so wrong. The reason why we're attracted to fast food goes back to our the way of our life. Sugar didn't exist as naturally as it does today, fats were always hard to come by, etc. High caloric diets are so appealing because it goes back ot our biological instincts.

We're all animals.

Human is a species just like Lion and Gorilla is a species.

We're all animals. And we all still live by the very rules of the natural world. We just like to dellude oursleves into thinking we're better than other species. But one day the natural system will after shock and then we'll live with the consequences.

We need to stop thinking in the terms that we do not live the natural ecosystem. We need to live a cohabitation of human society and the natural laws of the world.



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18 Mar 2012, 1:33 pm

Pandora_Box wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Pandora_Box wrote:
I'm going to be a little bit of the devil's advocate here. But look at any natural society. Mother apes, and other mammal mothers leave their child behind if they sense there is something wrong with the baby. Technically the same could have been said for those whom were defective in a human society. We're all still animals and still abide by the natural systems and rules. Other animals abandoned their defective children to ensure the survival of their own species and the survival of stronger genes. We only made the natural system wrong morally because we're human.


I guess we have to decide if we want to be humans or animals than....also in those situations in nature, sometimes there are other factors involved such as maybe putting a baby who will only suffer out of it's misery, or having an inability to care for it. But thing is that's animals humans seem to typically veiw themselves as higher beings than animals so why do we want to throw human nature out the window and resort to basic animal instincts.


Human is no different from animal. We're still very much in control by our biological urges. To reproduce, to pass on our genes, the way we find a mater, the way we select mates, the way we think, etc. People like to think we are not ruled by our instincts, but that is so wrong. The reason why we're attracted to fast food goes back to our the way of our life. Sugar didn't exist as naturally as it does today, fats were always hard to come by, etc. High caloric diets are so appealing because it goes back ot our biological instincts.

I am not intrested in having offspring and I hate fast food so surely that does not apply to all people...and I know instincts and biological urges play a role in behavior, but I guess that's it then and we should legalize murder and such since we're no different then animals and should not be held to human standards.

We're all animals.

Human is a species just like Lion and Gorilla is a species.

We're all animals. And we all still live by the very rules of the natural world. We just like to dellude oursleves into thinking we're better than other species. But one day the natural system will after shock and then we'll live with the consequences.

We need to stop thinking in the terms that we do not live the natural ecosystem. We need to live a cohabitation of human society and the natural laws of the world.


I agree that humans certainly are a type of animal, but what is the point of even having societies or creating technology if everyone wants to run on animal instinct alone. The natural laws of the world do not involve rounding up the humans perceived to be defective and killing them off.