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Nikadee43
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20 Feb 2012, 3:12 pm

(mostly a rant)

When it's so very obvious that something is wrong. So wrong that you can't hide it even just a little. Instead of someone (who supposedly considers you a friend or close acquaintance) saying "Hey, you look down. Do you want to talk about anything?" they act like you're not there and avoid you at all costs. They don't include you in conversations unless you speak first, they don't invite you anywhere. The easiest answer would probably be that most people assume you want to be left alone, but I feel that is an unsafe/cop-out assumption. Especially if the person never actually says they want to be left alone. Even the people that know I've been having a hard time because of AS haven't followed up with me to see how things are going.

I guess if I noticed a friend in need, I would at least let them know that I am available to them and am aware that they're hurting and am open to being there for them if they need it. I HAVE done this whenever I'm actually able to pick up on it. I am far from being an emotional person, and half the time don't know what to say to someone when they are feeling sad, but I know that I want to be able to help in some way. I wouldn't isolate them and ignore them whenever they were around. It's funny, when I've gotten depressed in the past, people have said they thought I was mad at them personally because I wasn't speaking or was very short with them, even though I acted the same way around everyone else, not just them. This may make some people that are depressed feel bad or guilty, but I honestly think it's self-centered of people to assume it's all about them, especially without even asking or paying close enough attention to a person's behavior to conclude such a thing. If a person is depressed, isn't it obvious that speaking normally and socializing isn't easy? That maybe we don't express our feelings because it hurts to or because we don't even know what or why we're feeling this way? Or maybe even we're too embarrassed to talk about it. Why is it when that when it comes to issues like this, all of a sudden your friends aren't your friends anymore?

I'll admit that majority of the time I'm depressed, I do want to be alone; but sometimes, I also want someone, just one person to come in my room and just talk to me. Ask me what the problem is and try to help or understand me. Just one person that seems like they truly care about what's happening to me. Maybe most of the time I won't feel like talking or hanging out (typical of depression, right?), but it doesn't mean you shouldn't think to ask. It doesn't mean that I don't want to be asked either. It's as if my depression is offensive to people. Like people think I'm bringing them and everyone else down by feeling this way, even though I can't help it. I think it's safe to say no one wants to be depressed. It's involuntary. So why not, at the very least, let people know that even if they think everything else in their life is falling apart, they still have people they can count on.


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20 Feb 2012, 3:23 pm

Nikadee43 wrote:
Why do people ignore you when you're depressed?

Depressed people are depressing.



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20 Feb 2012, 3:24 pm

Most people are fair-weather friends


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20 Feb 2012, 3:31 pm

Fnord wrote:
Nikadee43 wrote:
Why do people ignore you when you're depressed?

Depressed people are depressing.

Vigilans wrote:
Most people are fair-weather friends

Some people - a very small minority - seem to prefer the attention over getting better.



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20 Feb 2012, 3:34 pm

That's very true. I don't really think people like that are truly depressed, I think they may have a different personality disorder that manifests itself in that manner of behavior.


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20 Feb 2012, 3:36 pm

Vigilans wrote:
That's very true. I don't really think people like that are truly depressed, I think they may have a different personality disorder that manifests itself in that manner of behavior.

Their behavior gives a bad reputation to those who are really bipolar or clinically depressed.



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20 Feb 2012, 4:12 pm

Nikadee43 wrote:
. . . I guess if I noticed a friend in need, I would at least let them know that I am available to them and am aware that they're hurting and am open to being there for them if they need it. I HAVE done this whenever I'm actually able to pick up on it. I am far from being an emotional person, and half the time don't know what to say to someone when they are feeling sad, but I know that I want to be able to help in some way. I wouldn't isolate them and ignore them whenever they were around. It's funny, when I've gotten depressed in the past, people have said they thought I was mad at them personally because I wasn't speaking or was very short with them, even though I acted the same way around everyone else, not just them. This may make some people that are depressed feel bad or guilty, but I honestly think it's self-centered of people to assume it's all about them, especially without even asking or paying close enough attention to a person's behavior to conclude such a thing. . .

I think this is very perceptive of you, in a number of ways. And I am glad you've been able to be there for a friend or potential friend, even if only for a couple of times.

I think one thing, I wish people could be just more matter-of-fact. Maybe a friend could say, 'I am with you. If there's anything specific I can do, please let me know.' And then maybe a week or ten days later, say the same thing again and don't make a big deal about it. Just kind of be there. (And I'm just guessing about the time frame, which would probably need to be the subject of feel-and-texture experimentation.)

And it is kind of self-centered of people to expect one overture to automatically work, and then get hurt if it doesn't. Or, to stay hurt. Maybe it's kind of instinctual to get hurt, but I wish at least some people were mature enough and savvy enough to come back and try again, maybe in a somewhat different way.



Nikadee43
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20 Feb 2012, 4:40 pm

Fnord wrote:
Some people - a very small minority - seem to prefer the attention over getting better.


It's certainly not just attention that I want. Most emotional attention makes me uncomfortable anyway, and it's sometimes the reason I avoid talking to people about it because they expect that I want them to give me a hug and tell me everything's going to be ok or work out eventually. No. I want people to try and understand. I want to not feel abandoned. I want to see if maybe someone actually has some advice to offer on how to deal with certain issues. At the very least, just listen and try to understand.



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20 Feb 2012, 6:39 pm

Maybe just try to be very direct and brief in what you want? :jocolor:

Now, the hard part, I used to think I was smarter than most people. And n the areas I'm smart in and the ways I'm smart, that's probably true. I'm smart in Aspie ways. So, asking people to understand in my way, they're really going to be trying something new. Some people might be able to do this. But some might not, or not right away. And even those who can, it's uncomfortable for them trying something this different (I guess). It is a mystery, how people can be humanistic some ways but not others. And bail on you. Or it sure seems like they do, and I don't like that one little bit.



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20 Feb 2012, 6:43 pm

Yes, people often ignore people who are depressed....like it's contagious. It's interesting that you mentioned people think you're mad at them, but it makes sense - perhaps outwardly it looks similar.


Some people who are in deep depressions may actually be clinically depressed. Deep depression is scary because often the person doesn't know how to come out of it on their own.

I usually prefer to be left alone when I'm depressed too, but I understand what you mean about having one person to talk to sometimes.


I hope you feel better soon.


Edit to add:
Some people who try to help a depressed person may lose patience if the person they are trying to help isn't also working to come out of the depression.

edit edit edit...


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Last edited by goodwitchy on 20 Feb 2012, 7:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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20 Feb 2012, 6:43 pm

There are several reasons why some people may not try to help you when you are depressed.

1. They may not realize you are depressed

2. As you have noted, they may think you are angry, perhaps at them, perhaps at someone else.

3. As noted, they may think you want to be alone to work things out.

4. They may not want to deal with the drama of your depression. Dealing with that can get them depressed and/or frustrated and angry, so they may want to keep their distance to protect themselves from your problems.

5. Sometimes depressed people use and dump on their friends and family (needy) when what they really need is professional help. A non-professional person can feel very overwhelmed when trying to help a depressed person, and may pull back to protect themselves.

6. Often a troubled, or depressed person just wants to dump on people without really acting on any advice their friends or relatives may give them. This makes the friends and relatives very frustrated and angry, and they will often back off from the person dumping on them--again to protect themselves.

Don't take this non-helping on their parts personally. If they think you were mad at them, it could be your facial expression. I have this problem myself. It is partly caused by the shape of my eye brows, so I have tried to shape them so I look less like I am angry when I frown.

If their not wanting to be helpful when you are depressed is not caused by them thinking you are angry, it is probably being caused by your dumping more on them than they can help you with, so you should seek professional help.


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20 Feb 2012, 7:01 pm

dealing with severe depression in another person is really hard. also, it takes someone who is a REALLY good friend who really cares about you and also is someone who is comfortable approaching such a situation. i am a pretty social person in a lot of ways, but i have only ever had a few friends who were close enough to realize what was going on with me, and only one who has really gone out of their way, like, above and beyond, to help me during hard times no questions asked. it also helps that she deals with very similar problems, and i help her in similar ways.

i don't know if that helps at all. that's just my experience.



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20 Feb 2012, 7:06 pm

Quote:
Depressed people are depressing.


I agree. Sometimes a person, visiting a person with depression, and perceiving a failure to improve the mood of the depressed person through their interactions, consider their visit to be of no value. The depressed person shows no sign of improvement, which would have made the interaction of value to the depressed person, in the mind of the visitor, and they also do not get what they wanted from the interaction, to be happy with their having made a difference.

Quote:
Most people are fair-weather friends


Or not very resilient, perhaps they have personality disorders.

Personally, I do not have much difficulty visiting my friend who is bipolar. It could be that I have known him from school, and we have always been friends. I will not give up, I am loyal. I am not the easiest person to get on with. For one thing, I have difficulty remembering to smile, and most people do not like that. I seem to relate to him a lot more like him than most. He is willing to talk about many things that others would not consider. Even when he has symptoms of psychosis, I am more comfortable around him than a lot of people who I have met.

For as long as I have known him, the depth of his depressive cycle has seemed less when he has managed to find something positive in his life. Whatever the imbalance he has, his mood still seems to be effected by environment, and experiences.


Edit: I apologise for my previous generalisation. Imagining my friend going on to the internet for support, to be flatly told that depressing people are depressing, did not help my composure.


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Last edited by Orr on 22 Feb 2012, 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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20 Feb 2012, 7:15 pm

You haven't learned how to manipulate people into caring about you yet.



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21 Feb 2012, 3:43 pm

goodwitchy wrote:

Some people who are in deep depressions may actually be clinically depressed. Deep depression is scary because often the person doesn't know how to come out of it on their own.



I have difficulty understanding the differences between "depression" and "deep/clinical depression". What is non-clinical depression like?


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21 Feb 2012, 4:19 pm

Orr wrote:
Quote:
Depressed people are depressing.


I agree. Visiting a person with depression, and perceiving a failure to improve the mood of the depressed person through their interactions, they consider their visit to be of no value. The depressed person shows no sign of improvement, which would have made the interaction of value to the depressed person, in the mind of the visitor, and they also do not get what they wanted from the interaction, to be happy with their having made a difference.

Quote:
Most people are fair-weather friends


Or not very resilient, perhaps they have personality disorders.

It's like the person visiting and trying to "help" is looking for a quick humanitarian hit. It's superficial and one-dimensional.

I don't know why the skill of being there, being available, not being demanding and not expecting any one effort to automatically work is seemingly such an uncommon skill, but it sure seems to be.

Depressed persons are interesting to talk with (even if you don't make a difference right away). 8)