Sitting issues?

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Hello. I recently took my youngest daughter, 4, to get evaluated by a specialist. I knew she had speech delay as well as a few other issues, and I was wanting to get her evaluated for autism. After the first evaluation, the Dr said there was not enough info to say she does have autism, but not enough info to say she doesn't. She said if she does it is very mild. She does have a speech delay and is delayed in her fine motor skills. We have already started speech therapy and will be starting OT in a couple of weeks.

My question is about a question the Dr asked during the interview that I forgot to follow-up on and ask her why she asked it. My daughter regularly sits with her rear end on the ground and each leg bent on each side of her. The Dr asked me "Does she always sit like that?" I told her quite often she did. She noted it on her paper and I completely forgot about it until I got home.

I knew almost nothing about autism before I started having my suspicions about DD and started researching at that point. I've done some, but hadn't run across this before. I remember my oldest son having sat like that, but he stopped around the time he started school, maybe somewhat before.

Does anyone know anything about why this was asked? Is this something I should try to stop?

Thanks!
Crystal

Many kids on the spectrum have "different" ways of holding their bodies - the stereotypical one being toe-walking. I think it's less that you should stop it from happening, and more that it would be helpful to figure out what it means. If you have access to an OT (Occupational Therapist) they would be able to give you a professional opinion. I just did some googling on the position, apparently it is out there and is called "W" sitting. There is a LOT of conflicting information about it out there, so google with caution.

Apparently (from what I gathered on google) this type of sitting can be an indicator of a muscle tone issue, hypermobile joints, or difficulty with or fear of balance (not unusual in kids on the spectrum) If, in fact, any of these is an issue, there are therapies to help with all of these things.

I would add the caveat that if your child is on the spectrum, the way she sits may be less of a choice or preference and more of a need (even if it's a need she can eventually compensate for.) Many of the sites I googled describe this as a "bad habit" parents need to "break." Since you don't know if your daughter is on the spectrum, I would ask your OT how to give her support to make sure she's exercising and strengthening her muscles, and to find ways to make it easier for her to sit.

My daughter has always preferred sitting like that (still does). The OT said exactly as momsparky pointed out: kids with poor muscle tone and proprioceptive issues need the extra stability and proprioceptive input this position gives. However, it is bad for the hips and knees so you should try to dissuade your daughter from sitting in this position for long periods. My daughter has the hypermobile joints (they pop in and out of joint easily) so this position is comfortable for her and gives her stability without the effort of holding herself up. Kids with these issues will also lean on desks, walls, couch arms, etc. When my daughter was younger she pratically laid her upper body on her desk to do her work.

Yes, I was going to post and say it's more to do with muscle tone.

My son is 4 1/2 . . . sits like this. We've tried to encourage sitting 'criss-cross', but he keeps going back to the 'W'. I read that kids with sensory issues actually feel 'safer' and more 'grounded' sense-wise sitting like that. Although, yes, it's not good for them to do it constantly for long periods.

I'm not sure from your description if you mean her thighs are more or less together, in front of her, or if her knees are wide apart (butterfly position style).

If it's the former, I always sat like that as a child and my parents used to get angry at me for it. It was the most comfortable way for me to sit. I'm not sure of the ASD connection - I've always had good muscle tone, but balance issues. Kneeling on top of my lower legs is torture, so I would never kneel in the standard way.

If it's the latter, I think maybe the way she was sitting hinted that she may have hypermobility. Are her knees touching the ground (or close to it) when she sits in that position? Not all people on the spectrum have this, but it is more common in people on the spectrum than in the general population.

Well I am not totally sure of that description but if you are describing the sitting position I think you are then that is usually how I sit if I am on a floor or the ground otherwise I just have my legs crossed. Otherwise I have to find something to sit in that has a back otherwise every other position is terribly uncomfortable. But yeah do you mean butt on the ground, thighs together and legs out...or the other style in that post above?

I guess if it is going to cause major problems I would encourage her not to....but I don't think its that big of a deal, I mean I cant imagine she is always sitting on the floor or ground.

Its the W sit....yeah I have been into this lately because I think we have this disease rampant in my family....It has different types and I found online that it is very common in Autistic kids. Its called Ahlers Danlos syndrome and as I said there are about four different types and Autistic kids tend to have the Hyper flexibility type. Me and my son with Aspergers and all three of my daughers have the symptoms and I have this auto immune disease and some of my joints are now fused but it can cause various problems, dislocations, pain and early osteo and arthritis. My disease is called Ankylosing spondylitis and it, as I said, an auto immune disease but it is also genetic like Ahlers Danlos syndrome and there are many people in my family who are very flexible. My hips are no longer flexible due to fusion but my hands, fingers and toes are. I think it is the missing "other issue" that my doctors have been looking for that make my disease so bad and my nerve damage so wide spread. I will probably have to use a tilting wheel chair for the rest of my life and they have my youngest (6 years classic autism) who typically spends most of her free time laying on her back and holding everything with her feet (she picked up things with her feet as a baby before she used her hands), in physical therapy because her joints are loose and she has low muscle tone(Ahlers Danlos syndrome?). I have dislocated my hip and my baby toe many times and learned how to pop it back in with help from someone who is not squeamish. My 19 year old dislocates her shoulder and now has a atonomic nervous system disease called POTS syndrome which is very common for people with....you guessed it, Ahlers Danlos syndrome. We also have a lots of Mitro valve prolapse which is linked to POTS and to Ahlers Danlos syndrome. My father and nearly everyone on his side of the family has Mitro Valve prolapse and my 21 year old daughter has a heart murmur that has not been checked out yet.

Anyway, interesting if you ask me. If you google Ahlers Danlos syndrome and Autism you will find lots of articles...Im assuming there must be a link, yes?

Very interesting information lilome. I often wonder about the 'links' within autism and such. My son, as I mentioned above sits 'W' and so does his sister and it has been very challenging to get them to adjust to any other way. My son has had a dislocated elbow (common), and he also has such low muscle tone in his hands/fingers that he cannot write or color. Well, he can scribble. My daughter, on the other hand, has disgustingly flexible joints. Her fingers bend so far backwards it's unreal. She doesn't have the fine motor issues with writing that my son does, but as far as I can tell she is NT too.
My father has mitral valve prolapse, and I assume due to various symptoms I and my son may too--though my father didn't need any kind of treatment until his 50's. My grandmother and my mother have had issues with fused joints, but no diagnosis.
I had never heard of Ahlers Danlos syndrome. I'll have to go look it up.

I have sat this way since i was 2 and im 25 now. Only problem i have now is my hips dislocate easily.

I am 40 years old. I have never sat any other way except w-sitting since I was born. Nobody ever told me it was bad for my joints. To This day w-sitting is still extremely comfortable. When I sit this way I don't get pins and needles in my legs and feet. I did notice something weird about my legs. Because this is the only way I have ever sat, I am extremely bow-legged and my feet turn in and I walk pigeon toed. I don't know why it's so bad for you to sit this way because the longer I w-sit, the more comfortable it feels. I don't think I have autism or anything related to the reason I w-sit. I just do it because it's an easy and very comfortable way to sit.

Just to throw something in. My daughter has always w-sat. She does not have low muscle tone nor hypermobility in her joints. She also does not have proprioceptive issues. My son has never sat like that and he had low muscle tone when he was younger and still has proprioceptive issues.

Our OT told us that while it usually indicates issues with muscle tone or proprioceptive issues, it is sometimes just a preference. However, regardless of the underlying reason, it is not good for hips and knees and should be discouraged.
After years, my daughter finally stopped doing it for the most part, only now she always sits (even in a chair) with her legs folded under her. She even sleeps with her legs folded under her whole body (kind of like in a fetal position, only her shins are on the bed and her body is above her legs, if that makes sense). I don't know why she likes to be folded up like that, but she does. I understand that this is not good for her knees, but I don't know how to get her to stop

My son has a lot of trouble sitting still on his butt. He usually sits with his feet tucked under him, and he shifts around a lot, too. His IEP allows him to stand or sit however he wants in class, as long as he's doing his work and not bothering anyone. He's getting better about the fidgeting as he gets older (he no longer climbs under his desk, for example) so that's good.

Yippy, does he ever sleep folded up? Has anyone ever told you how to decrease this, other than constantly reminding them to sit on their butt? For a long time, I went around saying "criss-cross applesauce" as her cue to sit cross-legged. But that doesn't work in chairs and she rarely sits on the floor anymore.

He sleeps wrapped up in several blankets. We call this "the burrito". Sometimes he throws body pillows on top of himself, too.

Nope, I've no idea how to make him sit on his butt more. It doesn't seem to matter how hard or soft the chair is. He even has a rough time sitting still in the car. At school, they put some wide rubber bands around the legs of his chair. He puts his feet on them and that helps him a little.

Have you ever tried a wobble cushion?

It didn't seem to help my daughter when we first considered it, but one of her friends uses one in school. I am actually thinking of revisiting.