English Kids Learning to Speak English Properly

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Tequila
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02 Mar 2012, 10:35 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
Anyway...why try to revive it at all?


So they can piss off outsiders?

You know they're still looking for Henry Niles don't you? ;)



Tequila
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02 Mar 2012, 10:39 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
We're living in the 21st century and most English people can't even learn the language of economically powerful neighbours like France and Germany. You also can't improve historical relationships retrospectively. The modern world is the way it is and some things are irreversible. The best we can do is look towards the future and grant Scotland/Wales/N. Ireland as much cultural and economic autonomy as they wish.


Not forgetting of course that most people in Scotland, Wales and Ulster don't speak these languages and have no desire to learn them (and in some cases there is an active hostility). We are where we are. People who can be bothered to learn all these moribund languages have an amazing talent, and that should not be wasted.

Personally, I think us Brits should think ourselves lucky. We have a language that is the most widely-spoken in the world and that everyone in the British Isles can understand (apart from in parts of Manchester, obv). ;)



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03 Mar 2012, 10:43 am

Tequila wrote:
So they can piss off outsiders?

Now was the purpose of the revival of Latin in the Renaissance to piss outsiders off?

Tequila wrote:
Personally, I think us Brits should think ourselves lucky. We have a language that is the most widely-spoken in the world and that everyone in the British Isles can understand (apart from in parts of Manchester, obv). ;)

We Brits can be very lazy when it comes to learning other languages, I don't know if the same can be say for the rest of the Anglosphere.


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03 Mar 2012, 11:36 am

This is just a little history lesson (just for fun). I was recently asked, by an African man, now living in Scotland, why the people in this area (Southern/Central Scotland) don't speak Gaelic and aren't particularly fussed about learning. The simple answer is that it has absolutely no connection to the area. Our ancestors, or at least the people who lived in this area before English arrived, did not speak Gaelic. Before the Anglo Saxons, the language spoke here was an old form of Welsh, the same language that was spoken by the people in the NW of England and Wales, at the time. Gaelic was spoken in the highlands and islands and is practically the same as Irish Gaelic (as it originated in Ireland). When Old English arrived, the Scots dialect developed, which is as close to Old English as you'll get today. We speak Scots here, which is unfortunately dying out, mixed with standard English. I do speak standard English too (just like a news reader). :lol:


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Tequila
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03 Mar 2012, 2:56 pm

Chipshorter wrote:
Now was the purpose of the revival of Latin in the Renaissance to piss outsiders off?


I don't know, but the use of minority languages can be used to exclude outsiders or to be difficult. It also brings in a lán airgid, go raibh maith agat for people who can speak these dead languages.

By the way, I think the refusal to learn new languages is common in places like Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the United States but not places like Malta, say.



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03 Mar 2012, 3:36 pm

Tequila wrote:
Chipshorter wrote:
Now was the purpose of the revival of Latin in the Renaissance to piss outsiders off?


I don't know, but the use of minority languages can be used to exclude outsiders or to be difficult. It also brings in a lán airgid, go raibh maith agat for people who can speak these dead languages.

By the way, I think the refusal to learn new languages is common in places like Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the United States but not places like Malta, say.


True, with talking about dead languages in general do you see any point in learning Latin and Ancient Greek?
Should theses classical languages be school subjects?


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Tequila
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03 Mar 2012, 3:44 pm

Chipshorter wrote:
True, with talking about dead languages in general do you see any point in learning Latin and Ancient Greek?


Sure. I just don't think that languages that are rarely spoken should be imposed upon people.

Those people who wish to learn Latin, Ancient Greek, Scots Gaelic (as is already said, this is a minority language even within Scotland and is mainly confined to the Outer Hebrides and other similarly remote parts of the country - the rate of native speakers is about 1% in Scotland) or whatever else should be encouraged to learn it. I just don't think that it should be forced on the rest of us.

Quote:
Should theses classical languages be school subjects?


As long as they are strictly optional, probably at a much higher level.



Last edited by Tequila on 03 Mar 2012, 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mummy_of_Peanut
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03 Mar 2012, 3:46 pm

Chipshorter wrote:
Tequila wrote:
Chipshorter wrote:
Now was the purpose of the revival of Latin in the Renaissance to piss outsiders off?


I don't know, but the use of minority languages can be used to exclude outsiders or to be difficult. It also brings in a lán airgid, go raibh maith agat for people who can speak these dead languages.

By the way, I think the refusal to learn new languages is common in places like Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the United States but not places like Malta, say.


True, with talking about dead languages in general do you see any point in learning Latin and Ancient Greek?
Should theses classical languages be school subjects?
I never learned any Latin or Greek in school. I think both are useful to help us understand a lot of English words. The verbs, syntax, etc, maybe is dead, but the vocab definitely is alive and well.


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03 Mar 2012, 4:38 pm

I started to teach myself Latin as I hear of alot of reasons why the language can help in other areas of learning, tho I had to put it on hold to moving house. With language its the an interest then it makes it easier to learn. When I was made to learn French in school I didn't enjoy it.

However when I choice to learn at college Spanish & Italian I loved it, I even learn a bit Welsh from my Italian tutor as she was a fluent speaker like my father & his family are. Tho an Italian friend of mine, a fluent speaker of six languages pointed out to me that it helps to learn other languages early in your like in your childhood.


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