Are Rich People Unethical?

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01 Mar 2012, 10:52 am

I tend to think of this differently. If rich people are unethical I think it generally started after they had made their fortune.

AceOfSpades
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01 Mar 2012, 11:29 am

Dox47 wrote:

heavenlyabyss wrote:

I think there are some valid arguments against welfare. The effort should be focused on providing the poor with jobs, and not merely giving handouts. The reason is because many poor people are capable of work, but simply don't have the wherewithal, intelligence, mental ability, social skills, confidence, or job experience to actually get a job. It is very hard for a homeless person to get a job without any support, very close to impossible actually for many homeless people. Isn't it a little cruel to say that these people are simply lazy? Actually it is extremely cruel and self-centered, I take it back.

When people take advantage of welfare, I get pissed myself, but come on, some poor people are mentally ill (schizophrenic for example and do not deserve to be demonized. Most homeless don't even realize that they are deserving of welfare, and so the people who take advantage of the system help while the people who are severely disabled get nothing whatsoever. I admit this is very backwards.

Even autistic people, while many are capable of work, many who are low functioning are going to have extreme difficulty finding jobs, and so these people need to be supported.

It is about the mentality, this mentality that the rich are good and the poor are weak, stupid, and lazy, that is the mentality I want to rebel against furiously. Because it is elitist and cruel.

I wasn't actually talking about welfare at all there, so I'm not sure why this post is addressed in response to my comment. I was more interested in this sort of passive aggressive defense mechanism that some people use to rationalize their lack of something normally though of as desirable by labeling it as unethical or the result of dishonesty or some other falseness or mendacity. If you think that all rich people are cheats and liars, it's much easier to tell yourself that you're morally superior if not financially superior. You can see similar mental gymnastics on such subjects like attractiveness, social skills, background, etc, especially on this site if NTs are involved. I'm a big believer in accepting luck as part of life, and luck, as life, is not always fair.

True but the treatment you get from the system doesn't necessarily reflect life's inherent hardships. The system itself is man made so it is subject to both the inherent flaws of man and life. The issue I have with the more extremely egalitarian types is that they often confuse the two and frame every flaw of the system as socially engineered.

AstroGeek wrote:

I tend to think of this differently. If rich people are unethical I think it generally started after they had made their fortune.

I see it the other way around. It only brings out what was already there all along. Hence, I don't think rich people are any more or less ethical than any other class. Kinda like how booze doesn't make us douchebags, it only brings out the douchebaggery within us.

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01 Mar 2012, 3:25 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:

AstroGeek wrote:

I tend to think of this differently. If rich people are unethical I think it generally started after they had made their fortune.

I guess that that's kind of what I meant. I believe that all (or nearly all) of us has the potential to behave unethically (on a regular basis that is--everyone, even if overall they live a good life, will behave unethically sometimes). What I meant to say was that the unethical behaviour would mostly start after the rich have established their wealth, and not in the process of establishing it. But the potential to behave that way is present in everyone and can be brought out by plenty of other circumstances too.

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02 Mar 2012, 8:41 am

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/ma ... 07220.html

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02 Mar 2012, 12:59 pm

Camels and eyes of needles, people. Camels and eyes of needles.

The truth is that it is impossible to generalize whether a class of people like, "rich people" are any more or less ethical than a class of people like, "everyone else." You can't even make that generalization about a single individual.

Some of my actions are unethical, but I like to think that they are few and far between. And certainly none of my unethical actions have warranted criminal prosecution.

Now, some of Bernie Madoff's unethical actions have, indeed, warranted criminal prosecution. Is he more unethical than I? I don't know. His frauds are certainly wantonly unethical. But we can only surmise about the rest of his actions.

How many poor people would have done precisely what Madoff did in the same circumstances? Are they more ethical than he simply because they never had the opportunity to give free rein to their unethical impulses?

Individuals are judged by their own actions, not by the actions of people who happen to share characteristics with them.

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02 Mar 2012, 1:03 pm

N0tYetDeadFred wrote:

Yes and no. The two wealthiest areas of the U.S. are Silicon Valley and Washington, D.C.

A lot of fortunes have been made honestly in Silicon Valley. To get wealthy in Washington, on the other hand...

So the geeks are making the money. In American most aspies have a shot at being respected in a society and to be above the
local jock alpha male.

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02 Mar 2012, 1:12 pm

Aspie_Chav wrote:

N0tYetDeadFred wrote:

So the geeks are making the money. In American most aspies have a shot at being respected in a society and to be above the
local jock alpha male.

The point is that they actually invent and produce New Stuff in Silicon Valley. What do they produce in Washington D.C. besides War and Lies?

ruveyn

TM
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02 Mar 2012, 1:13 pm

There is certainly a good argument to be made that the system that currently decides if people end up as rich or poor is favored towards those with an inkling towards what would be deemed as unethical behavior. We know that many banks throughout the world have helped launder money from the drug trade, human trafficking, arms deals and despots that exploit their own people, we know that corporations would be less likely to make sure their ongoing operations do not destroy the earth for future generations if government didn't hold a gun to their head and so on.

It's a bit like Robert Hare's study on psychopaths, which consisted of coming up with a list of what he thought of as a psychopath, then going into prisons to confirm his list.

ruveyn
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02 Mar 2012, 1:15 pm

TM wrote:

Solution: Decriminalize drugs.

ruveyn

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02 Mar 2012, 1:26 pm

ruveyn wrote:

TM wrote:

Solution: Decriminalize drugs.

ruveyn

I've been an advocate of legalizing soft drugs with hard drug programs where people who are addicted can get their "fix" and thus eliminating the criminal element. I'm also in favor of legalizing prostitution as a step towards dealing with trafficking.

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02 Mar 2012, 1:29 pm

TM wrote:

Fine. Write to your Congress-Critter.

ruveyn

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02 Mar 2012, 1:34 pm

Dox47 wrote:

You can see similar mental gymnastics on such subjects like attractiveness, social skills, background, etc, especially on this site if NTs are involved. I'm a big believer in accepting luck as part of life, and luck, as life, is not always fair.

My last date. The woman might as well have said because if my better social skills, I am more morale, stronger, less naive.
Strange thing was despite hear headstrong aggressive attitude, her position was weak, our action was amorale (for a Christian she was suppose to be)
and she was naive for taking a lift by a stranger and inviting me into her home. I could have bagged her ass. And of course much poorer.

She said I am childish and naive soft and childish. Nahh nahh nahh nahh.

Aspie_Chav
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02 Mar 2012, 1:39 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Aspie_Chav wrote:

N0tYetDeadFred wrote:

So the geeks are making the money. In American most aspies have a shot at being respected in a society and to be above the
local jock alpha male.

The point is that they actually invent and produce New Stuff in Silicon Valley. What do they produce in Washington D.C. besides War and Lies?

ruveyn

But the geeks still get a shot.

ruveyn
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02 Mar 2012, 1:41 pm

Aspie_Chav wrote:

But the geeks still get a shot.

C'est dommage. Life is unfair.

ruveyn

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02 Mar 2012, 1:46 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Aspie_Chav wrote:

But the geeks still get a shot.

C'est dommage. Life is unfair.

ruveyn

Doesn't that mean "its a pitty".

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02 Mar 2012, 3:44 pm

visagrunt wrote:

The truth is that it is impossible to generalize whether a class of people like, "rich people" are any more or less ethical than a class of people like, "everyone else." You can't even make that generalization about a single individual.

Almost everything is possible with the help of science

http://healthland.time.com/2011/12/21/g ... ompassion/

Although this study focused on empathy and compassion rather than ethics. The result was that the rich care less about other people. The poorer a person, the more willing they are to help someone else out and share the little they have.

It's obvious if you think about it. We help others to indebt them to us and perhaps call in a favor at a later time (there is no free lunch and no real selflessness). But if you've got it made, you no longer have to rely on the voluntary cooperation of others in order to get ahead.

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