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Sweetleaf
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02 Mar 2012, 7:24 pm

myth wrote:
I think the two questions are not the same. Yes, it was free speech and yes it was uncalled for. The people who ran that add are entitled to their opinion, of course, but I don't find anything inherently wrong with government-regulated healthcare. Frankly, it baffles me that many Americans flip out about it. So..


But do you want this particular government running it?



Tollorin
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02 Mar 2012, 10:33 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
myth wrote:
I think the two questions are not the same. Yes, it was free speech and yes it was uncalled for. The people who ran that add are entitled to their opinion, of course, but I don't find anything inherently wrong with government-regulated healthcare. Frankly, it baffles me that many Americans flip out about it. So..


But do you want this particular government running it?

The alternative is worst!



Sweetleaf
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02 Mar 2012, 10:35 pm

Tollorin wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
myth wrote:
I think the two questions are not the same. Yes, it was free speech and yes it was uncalled for. The people who ran that add are entitled to their opinion, of course, but I don't find anything inherently wrong with government-regulated healthcare. Frankly, it baffles me that many Americans flip out about it. So..


But do you want this particular government running it?

The alternative is worst!


I don't know our government and the alternative do have pretty close ties.



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03 Mar 2012, 7:22 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
I don't exactly disagree with the ad, sorry if that offends anyone.


Never apologize. It shows weakness.

ruveyn



Sweetleaf
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03 Mar 2012, 12:21 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I don't exactly disagree with the ad, sorry if that offends anyone.


Never apologize. It shows weakness.

ruveyn


I will apologize if I want to, doing as someone else says just because they say so probably also shows weakness......so I'm damned either way.



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03 Mar 2012, 3:59 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I don't exactly disagree with the ad, sorry if that offends anyone.


Never apologize. It shows weakness.

ruveyn


It makes one look like a f*cking dickhead more like it...


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03 Mar 2012, 9:09 pm

questor wrote:
The ad falls under free speech. What people need to understand, but keep forgetting, is that you don't have to like every bit of free speech out there, and chances are there will be plenty you don't like, but the opposing views have as much right to comment, as do you and those who share your views. In America, just because someone doesn't like a particular comment, doesn't give them the right to shut up the commenter. Read the Constitution. It makes it very clear. And yes, sometimes people will use rather strong language to express themselves, especially when they feel strongly about a topic.

There are common sense exceptions to free speech. You are not allowed to slander or libel people and you are not allowed to incite people to violence, or to create a panic, like shouting fire in a crowded place when there is no fire, because people can get trampled to death trying to get away from a non existing fire. But for the most part you have the right to say what you want.

Political and religious speech can generate a lot of heat, often a lot of strong language, and often some nasty allegations. It is up to the person being accused to decide whether to challenge the accusations, or to let it go, or to admit them. Our country was built on political and religious freedom. Trying to shut up opposing views is illegal, and undermines the ideals that this country was founded on.

Don't worry about the strongly worded ad on the bus. It is Obama's place to decide how he wants to respond to it, or even if he wants to address the issue at all.
This.


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06 Mar 2012, 4:46 pm

When Obama goes to hell, he can keep Bush company



myth
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07 Mar 2012, 1:54 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
myth wrote:
I think the two questions are not the same. Yes, it was free speech and yes it was uncalled for. The people who ran that add are entitled to their opinion, of course, but I don't find anything inherently wrong with government-regulated healthcare. Frankly, it baffles me that many Americans flip out about it. So..


But do you want this particular government running it?

This one, another one, what does it matter? It affects my life minimally at best. I moved from the US to Canada so I've experienced both forms of healthcare and I see very little actual difference in my day-to-day life. Larger deductions from my paychecks, no co-pays... meh. The particular province where I live has a shortage of mental health doctors but I'm not entirely sure Canada is to blame for that, just the backwater attitudes of the people in this sparsely populated province.

All governments and any other human organizational structure is corrupt and full of people with evil agendas, there's no getting around it where humans are involved. I see no way to change it so therefore I see no reason to worry about it. Typically, if I can't do anything about it, I just move on.

So with those observations above, I see no reason to be upset about the idea of government regulated healthcare.


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Sweetleaf
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07 Mar 2012, 2:01 pm

myth wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
myth wrote:
I think the two questions are not the same. Yes, it was free speech and yes it was uncalled for. The people who ran that add are entitled to their opinion, of course, but I don't find anything inherently wrong with government-regulated healthcare. Frankly, it baffles me that many Americans flip out about it. So..


But do you want this particular government running it?

This one, another one, what does it matter? It affects my life minimally at best. I moved from the US to Canada so I've experienced both forms of healthcare and I see very little actual difference in my day-to-day life. Larger deductions from my paychecks, no co-pays... meh. The particular province where I live has a shortage of mental health doctors but I'm not entirely sure Canada is to blame for that, just the backwater attitudes of the people in this sparsely populated province.

All governments and any other human organizational structure is corrupt and full of people with evil agendas, there's no getting around it where humans are involved. I see no way to change it so therefore I see no reason to worry about it. Typically, if I can't do anything about it, I just move on.

So with those observations above, I see no reason to be upset about the idea of government regulated healthcare.


Well Id prefer government run healthcare to what we have, but I still don't trust our government with it.



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07 Mar 2012, 2:06 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
...But do you want this particular government running it?


What? The US government is running Hell now? Who's paying for that!



shrox
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07 Mar 2012, 2:07 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I don't exactly disagree with the ad, sorry if that offends anyone.


Never apologize. It shows weakness.

ruveyn


Or perhaps one has very good armor...



CockneyRebel
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07 Mar 2012, 6:32 pm

I'd have to say that it's free speech.


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abacacus
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07 Mar 2012, 9:24 pm

Eh, maybe a bit in bad taste, but it's just a bus ad. They have every right to scream about Obama.


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12 Mar 2012, 9:18 pm

In a gangster rap video, somebody held up a sign saying "BUCK FUSH" (I'm sure you guys know what that means), and no one complained about it at all.



jojobean
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12 Mar 2012, 10:57 pm

Well the ACA that Obama signed is really pretty open to the market, it does not call for universal health care in the US or a one payer system,. However it does cut medicare further which will directly effect my mother and I. Not only old people have medicare, but those on tricare, which is a government insurance for the those in armed forces and those who are retired after 20 years of service, well they are required to have medicare as primary. Well let me tell you it is [email protected] hard to find a doctor who will take medicare even if you have other insurance. My mother has a severe rare illness and has been getting bottom rung care, actually the worst in her life due to the cuts to medicare. Good doctors dont take medicare, only the ones that have to because no one else will see them. My dad served 20 years in the military, anouther 15 in civil service for the military...and a few months before he died, he said, "my government has forgotten me."

Alittle dis-tasteful, but I agree with the bus ad for slightly different reasons
While I think that universal health care would be great, Ms. Sweetleaf has an important point that should not be overlooked. Unlike some other countries, the US is doing their best to strip the common people of every right given to us at an alarming rate. Only some of these bills actually make headlines, most go unnoticed until one day, you wake up, and realize we aint on Kanas no more, Toto.

However, I really think a voucher program might actually work...I dunno but it is worth a try. It works for failing school districts, why not a failing healthcare system.

as far as free speech. We are given free speech for this very reason, to be able to speak out against our government, while it is a kinda cheap shot, it is still free speech.
However, had that been, lets say a law student's name plastered on the side of a bus telling her to go to hell, that might be slander/harrasment because she is a private citizen. The 1st amendment was intended to give ppl free speech against their government, not promote hate speech against private citizens such as the case with Rush.

Anyway it is a fine line, but I doubt Obama will really care if a bus ad tells him to go to hell, but knowing him, he will probably declare the writers of the ad to be terrorists and detain them indefinately.

Jojo


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