Free Sterilizations Must be Offered to All College Women(HHS

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Velociraptor
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12 Apr 2012, 7:40 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
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puddingmouse wrote:
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Gene therapy is on its way, and there really is no reason not to have kids.


Besides not wanting them? I can think of many reasons to not have kids, but not wanting them is the ultimate reason.


What if you change your mind? What if you meet someone and want to take your relationship to the next level?


Other people making decisions they later regret...

How would this be your problem, exactly?


It would be my problem because 1) my tax dollars paid for it, 2) someone in my world is suffering because someone taught them something would disgust me and told them it was ok.

It's a very unjust scenario. There are better options. Just keep track of your cycle and use methods of birth control. I fully advocate for safer forms of "the pill" that would not cause an embryo to be destroyed.



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Velociraptor
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12 Apr 2012, 7:43 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
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puddingmouse wrote:
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The artificial uterus would be so easy to make if we would just do it... Why advocate for murder, and there is no such thing as a righteous kill, when you could advocate for technological options. This argument is broken.


This isn't a debate about abortion.

Besides, only a small part of the burden of having children is carrying them and giving birth to them. I really want to see those figures that suggest that the number of children unwanted by their biological parents does not exceed the number of families willing to adopt. Most people who want kids want those kids to look like them (or their partner). Even if there was a multitude of willing adopters, would all of them make suitable parents?


I would want to adopt an unwanted kid from someone in my family. Everyone has a family. It's not always about wanting kids and not being able to have them, sometimes it's taking responsibility for someone's life. If I have a daughter I will always make it known to her that I will take care of her kid if she gets pregnant and I will raise a family that will do the same.


Great. Not everyone has that privilege.


You're family is bigger than you think. You just need to get to know them. Your family will go further for you than you think if you were to have a kid you couldn't take care of. We just need to raise families that have the values, and that can ignore a media that preaches death as a solution.



abacacus
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12 Apr 2012, 7:43 pm

webcam wrote:
It would be my problem because 1) my tax dollars paid for it, 2) someone in my world is suffering because someone taught them something would disgust me and told them it was ok.

It's a very unjust scenario. There are better options. Just keep track of your cycle and use methods of birth control. I fully advocate for safer forms of "the pill" that would not cause an embryo to be destroyed.


WOOOOOAH there. Slow down. YOUR world? Do you have the deed? How much did it cost? Being the king of the planet must be a very taxing job...

This is not your world. It never has been, it never will be. Whether something disgusts you or not, you have to deal with it. I don't approve of my tax dollars going towards many things in my country. Doesn't mean I am somehow exempt from paying them.

The sooner you learn that "your" world is a myth, the better off you'll be.


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CloudLayer
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12 Apr 2012, 7:46 pm

webcam wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
webcam wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
webcam wrote:
Gene therapy is on its way, and there really is no reason not to have kids.


Besides not wanting them? I can think of many reasons to not have kids, but not wanting them is the ultimate reason.


What if you change your mind? What if you meet someone and want to take your relationship to the next level?


Other people making decisions they later regret...

How would this be your problem, exactly?


It would be my problem because 1) my tax dollars paid for it, 2) someone in my world is suffering because someone taught them something would disgust me and told them it was ok.

It's a very unjust scenario. There are better options. Just keep track of your cycle and use methods of birth control. I fully advocate for safer forms of "the pill" that would not cause an embryo to be destroyed.


Oh, is that all. Please educate the women of this board more about their reproductive health. More tips.

The very point of the pill is to make it so embryos cannot be created.

I feel kind of bad writing this because I can't tell how old you are and I fear you're pretty young and not aware of what's what in the matter at hand. I don't mean that to be rude but being as this is the internet you could be any age and I'm not getting any reason to believe you're... an adult.



puddingmouse
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12 Apr 2012, 7:47 pm

webcam wrote:

It would be my problem because 1) my tax dollars paid for it, 2) someone in my world is suffering because someone taught them something would disgust me and told them it was ok.


1. You'd pay more tax if the baby was born.
2. Eh? That's freedom of speech.

Quote:
It's a very unjust scenario. There are better options. Just keep track of your cycle and use methods of birth control. I fully advocate for safer forms of "the pill" that would not cause an embryo to be destroyed.


I'm not going to get sterilised. This is about hypothetical people. Have you ever had something like gender dysphoria? Imagine that the idea of giving birth really disgusts you, but you have the equipment all set up for it. Imagine feeling at odds with your body because of that. I can tell you that it's not just full-on FTM trans people who get that feeling.


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12 Apr 2012, 7:47 pm

abacacus wrote:
webcam wrote:
It would be my problem because 1) my tax dollars paid for it, 2) someone in my world is suffering because someone taught them something would disgust me and told them it was ok.

It's a very unjust scenario. There are better options. Just keep track of your cycle and use methods of birth control. I fully advocate for safer forms of "the pill" that would not cause an embryo to be destroyed.


WOOOOOAH there. Slow down. YOUR world? Do you have the deed? How much did it cost? Being the king of the planet must be a very taxing job...

This is not your world. It never has been, it never will be. Whether something disgusts you or not, you have to deal with it. I don't approve of my tax dollars going towards many things in my country. Doesn't mean I am somehow exempt from paying them.

The sooner you learn that "your" world is a myth, the better off you'll be.


Pretty much what he said



puddingmouse
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12 Apr 2012, 7:49 pm

webcam wrote:
You're family is bigger than you think. You just need to get to know them. Your family will go further for you than you think if you were to have a kid you couldn't take care of. We just need to raise families that have the values, and that can ignore a media that preaches death as a solution.


Meanwhile, in the real world...


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Velociraptor
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12 Apr 2012, 8:07 pm

CloudLayer wrote:
I'm not advocating for murder. I'm advocating for autonomy over personal issues, which thankfully is available.

Quote:
she can't give him kids


This here shows the problem with your thinking. Women don't "give" people kids. They either decide with their autonomy to invest their life, health, and welfare in acting as life support for a developing fetus for nine months or they decide not to. Women aren't baby vending machines for men.

Sperm is a human life the way a skin cell is a human life. It can't exist on its own as an individual or even develop into one on its own without being a part of something else.

I guess every reason for incompatibility between every pair of romantically incompatible humans is a ruination of human possibilities. So what. A person's allowed to not want kids.

No one is taking reproduction away from "a person." The law in question gives people the personal choice to make choices about their personal bodies. Nothing is being stolen or required of anyone.


It is being taken from someone. Someone is going through with a surgery or procedure of some kind in order to affect the outcome of human life. Loosing a few sperm or skin cells can not be compared to this either. Fapping won't cause me to be unable to have children, letting some skin die usually won't either unless that's my only option for reproduction.

Earlier in my life, I didn't want kids, life wasn't working for me and things sucked. Then my life changed and I saw a way to make things different and decided to take a stand in what I believed in and now I think differently. With the passage of time I've found myself in a mindset that changes things for me and I've begun to set my priorities right. I've grown up and decided that it is worth every drop of sweat and blood to raise a family and to ensure and fight for my kids and their situation so that things don't suck for them. I've come to understand what establishments prevented me from enjoying my life and communicating with people and having a true mutual understanding of feelings with them. I've worked it out and I'm going to raise my kids the best I can to be open like that.

So minds do change. Minds might not change if reproductive organs aren't there to affect that change or have been disconnected, but it's possible. You really have to work out every issue you have before doing something like this, and if you really have worked out every issue you have, I'm positive you'd make a different choice.

By not having kids you are saying to existence that your genetics don't have a place in the future, you are choosing not to place an impetus on the future and raise someone to be part of a better generation. Think about all the things that you want out of life, you are denying that to possibilities that will be similar to you. Have a little hope. If you've already gone through with the process, I strongly suggest getting insurance for cryonics so you will have a chance to be fertile in the future. Don't abandon life.



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Velociraptor
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12 Apr 2012, 8:11 pm

abacacus wrote:
webcam wrote:
It would be my problem because 1) my tax dollars paid for it, 2) someone in my world is suffering because someone taught them something would disgust me and told them it was ok.

It's a very unjust scenario. There are better options. Just keep track of your cycle and use methods of birth control. I fully advocate for safer forms of "the pill" that would not cause an embryo to be destroyed.


WOOOOOAH there. Slow down. YOUR world? Do you have the deed? How much did it cost? Being the king of the planet must be a very taxing job...

This is not your world. It never has been, it never will be. Whether something disgusts you or not, you have to deal with it. I don't approve of my tax dollars going towards many things in my country. Doesn't mean I am somehow exempt from paying them.

The sooner you learn that "your" world is a myth, the better off you'll be.

My world isn't a myth, I've stepped out of myth based realities and into life. I'm not saying that I own the world or that I'm the world's king, I'm saying that this is world I live in. I'm choosing against apathy, and I'm choosing for life.

Your Atheism is yet weak my friend.



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Velociraptor
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12 Apr 2012, 8:14 pm

CloudLayer wrote:
webcam wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
webcam wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
webcam wrote:
Gene therapy is on its way, and there really is no reason not to have kids.


Besides not wanting them? I can think of many reasons to not have kids, but not wanting them is the ultimate reason.


What if you change your mind? What if you meet someone and want to take your relationship to the next level?


Other people making decisions they later regret...

How would this be your problem, exactly?


It would be my problem because 1) my tax dollars paid for it, 2) someone in my world is suffering because someone taught them something would disgust me and told them it was ok.

It's a very unjust scenario. There are better options. Just keep track of your cycle and use methods of birth control. I fully advocate for safer forms of "the pill" that would not cause an embryo to be destroyed.


Oh, is that all. Please educate the women of this board more about their reproductive health. More tips.

The very point of the pill is to make it so embryos cannot be created.

I feel kind of bad writing this because I can't tell how old you are and I fear you're pretty young and not aware of what's what in the matter at hand. I don't mean that to be rude but being as this is the internet you could be any age and I'm not getting any reason to believe you're... an adult.


The pill as it is, can kill an embryo according to what I've been taught. Please tell me what is what in the matter at hand if I do not understand. PM me if you must.



CloudLayer
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12 Apr 2012, 8:18 pm

I say this sincerely: I think you are failing to differentiate between your desires and motivations and others' desires and motivations. Not everyone has kids. Lots of people are very happy not ever having kids, or do not have biological offspring but adopt and their kids are equally their kids. They definitely have not given up on life just because one of their gametes didn't combine with someone else's.



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Velociraptor
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12 Apr 2012, 8:20 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
webcam wrote:

It would be my problem because 1) my tax dollars paid for it, 2) someone in my world is suffering because someone taught them something would disgust me and told them it was ok.


1. You'd pay more tax if the baby was born.
2. Eh? That's freedom of speech.

Quote:
It's a very unjust scenario. There are better options. Just keep track of your cycle and use methods of birth control. I fully advocate for safer forms of "the pill" that would not cause an embryo to be destroyed.


I'm not going to get sterilised. This is about hypothetical people. Have you ever had something like gender dysphoria? Imagine that the idea of giving birth really disgusts you, but you have the equipment all set up for it. Imagine feeling at odds with your body because of that. I can tell you that it's not just full-on FTM trans people who get that feeling.


2) No one should have the right to feed you a lie or teach you something like this.

If a woman has issues or feels disgusted at the thought of having a baby, she has deeper issues than just that. What kind of environment would cause such a thing? The disgust that women experience over the thought of having a kid comes from a culture of negativity, one that has been so harsh to her that she doesn't know hope for the future.

Like I've said, I've experienced not wanting kids, and I can trace that feeling to a series of events that influenced my feelings. A woman that is willing to get sterilized needs help, not a permanent medical procedure.



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Velociraptor
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12 Apr 2012, 8:21 pm

Joker wrote:
abacacus wrote:
webcam wrote:
It would be my problem because 1) my tax dollars paid for it, 2) someone in my world is suffering because someone taught them something would disgust me and told them it was ok.

It's a very unjust scenario. There are better options. Just keep track of your cycle and use methods of birth control. I fully advocate for safer forms of "the pill" that would not cause an embryo to be destroyed.


WOOOOOAH there. Slow down. YOUR world? Do you have the deed? How much did it cost? Being the king of the planet must be a very taxing job...

This is not your world. It never has been, it never will be. Whether something disgusts you or not, you have to deal with it. I don't approve of my tax dollars going towards many things in my country. Doesn't mean I am somehow exempt from paying them.

The sooner you learn that "your" world is a myth, the better off you'll be.


Pretty much what he said


Read pretty much what I said to him then :)



12 Apr 2012, 8:22 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
The state believes that society will be more efficient and ultimately save taxpayer money by preventing people with disabilities and other undesirable traits from passing their genes onto the next generation. Most young women are not going to use these services and I think that lawmakers proposing this realize that. So the next step will be compelling certain women to get sterilized in exchange for other services they might need as college students.


Well, technically, the state would save money if less disabled people were born. If you forget that you're disabled for a minute, and put emotions aside, then it's obvious.

Whilst it's relatively more likely to happen in the US, it's still very unlikely, because people's mindset has changed since the 1950s. People would've laughed at the idea of disability rights back then. Now you have a lot of activists to fight this stuff.


And for that I'm very grateful. But look at it this way puddingmouse, no matter how much YOU personally may not wish to have kids or even wish to be sterilized, the fact remains that at least 90% of college women who are childless will never use this service. I doubt that any physician could make a living if they exclusively performed sterilizations and did nothing else. So why should the state fund a service like this which is not only questionable ethically but unlikely to be used by most people for whom it's available to? I mean why stop there? Maybe Obamacare should pay for college women to get boob jobs, facelifts, and tummy tucks too. I'll bet you a lot more women would actually use that then surgical sterilization! :lol:



CloudLayer
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12 Apr 2012, 8:24 pm

Basically this thread is about sterilization and other forms of birth control, and in a paragraph above you stated that you just have to "use methods of birth control," while also saying you don't want your tax dollars paid towards sterilization (a permanent form of birth control).



abacacus
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12 Apr 2012, 8:24 pm

webcam wrote:
abacacus wrote:
webcam wrote:
It would be my problem because 1) my tax dollars paid for it, 2) someone in my world is suffering because someone taught them something would disgust me and told them it was ok.

It's a very unjust scenario. There are better options. Just keep track of your cycle and use methods of birth control. I fully advocate for safer forms of "the pill" that would not cause an embryo to be destroyed.


WOOOOOAH there. Slow down. YOUR world? Do you have the deed? How much did it cost? Being the king of the planet must be a very taxing job...

This is not your world. It never has been, it never will be. Whether something disgusts you or not, you have to deal with it. I don't approve of my tax dollars going towards many things in my country. Doesn't mean I am somehow exempt from paying them.

The sooner you learn that "your" world is a myth, the better off you'll be.

My world isn't a myth, I've stepped out of myth based realities and into life. I'm not saying that I own the world or that I'm the world's king, I'm saying that this is world I live in. I'm choosing against apathy, and I'm choosing for life.

Your Atheism is yet weak my friend.


There you go, YOU'RE choosing. For yourself. You. Not anyone else.

Or, to put it more bluntly, what right do you have to control other peoples lives? Or crap on their opinions (like you're doing to puddingmouse)? What makes you so f*****g special?


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A shot gun blast into the face of deceit
You'll gain your just reward.
We'll not rest until the purge is complete
You will reap what you've sown.