Free Sterilizations Must be Offered to All College Women(HHS
12 Apr 2012, 6:56 pm
puddingmouse wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
Yes I'm aware. And it's naive to the point of stupidity to think that giving the state the authority and the funds to provide this service for free will not ultimately lead to it becoming compulsory once again.
I'm stupid, then.
I think this is just a case of the state trying to save money by not having so many unwanted children in the world.
I guess I don't think that way because my country never practised compulsory sterilisation. I think it's more likely to happen again in the US.
And it just so happens that "free" sterilization is being offered here in the US and NOT the UK. NOTHING is for free here in my country. Not a dayam thing! The state believes that society will be more efficient and ultimately save taxpayer money by preventing people with disabilities and other undesirable traits from passing their genes onto the next generation. Most young women are not going to use these services and I think that lawmakers proposing this realize that. So the next step will be compelling certain women to get sterilized in exchange for other services they might need as college students.
12 Apr 2012, 7:02 pm
The world would not work if everyone did only what worked for them. These words would have more meaning if your autonomy over your own personal health and welfare was the proposed sacrifice at hand.
What is the difference between a "private life" and a life? When are men in a comparable situation of having a portion of their private life as defined by the boundaries of their body superceded by a life that does not belong to them, in your view? Ever?
It doesn't inconvenience me to carry a human life till birth, being as I'm not pregnant. It won't inconvenience you either being as you'll never be either.
12 Apr 2012, 7:04 pm
AspieRogue wrote:
The state believes that society will be more efficient and ultimately save taxpayer money by preventing people with disabilities and other undesirable traits from passing their genes onto the next generation. Most young women are not going to use these services and I think that lawmakers proposing this realize that. So the next step will be compelling certain women to get sterilized in exchange for other services they might need as college students.
Well, technically, the state would save money if less disabled people were born. If you forget that you're disabled for a minute, and put emotions aside, then it's obvious.
Whilst it's relatively more likely to happen in the US, it's still very unlikely, because people's mindset has changed since the 1950s. People would've laughed at the idea of disability rights back then. Now you have a lot of activists to fight this stuff.
_________________
Zombies, zombies will tear us apart...again.
12 Apr 2012, 7:16 pm
puddingmouse wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
The state believes that society will be more efficient and ultimately save taxpayer money by preventing people with disabilities and other undesirable traits from passing their genes onto the next generation. Most young women are not going to use these services and I think that lawmakers proposing this realize that. So the next step will be compelling certain women to get sterilized in exchange for other services they might need as college students.
Well, technically, the state would save money if less disabled people were born. If you forget that you're disabled for a minute, and put emotions aside, then it's obvious.
Whilst it's relatively more likely to happen in the US, it's still very unlikely, because people's mindset has changed since the 1950s. People would've laughed at the idea of disability rights back then. Now you have a lot of activists to fight this stuff.
Yes, the 1950 and 60s when this was last occurring (varying by region) was right before/during the middle of the civil rights era when the idea that people were not equal still existed and was enforced by law. The chances of that happening in 2012 are... really not good.
12 Apr 2012, 7:18 pm
CloudLayer wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
Yes I'm aware. And it's naive to the point of stupidity to think that giving the state the authority and the funds to provide this service for free will not ultimately lead to it becoming compulsory once again.
I'm stupid, then.
I think this is just a case of the state trying to save money by not having so many unwanted children in the world.
I guess I don't think that way because my country never practised compulsory sterilisation. I think it's more likely to happen again in the US.
even if we stopped all abortions in America, and instead put them up for adoption, it would take decades to give every child-less home with parents who can't have children 1 child.
Abortion has definitely allowed for crime to fall, but it isn't true that these children are unwanted. They are just unwanted by the women giving birth, but instead of just disposing of a developing human being, why not let it fully develop and give it away to a child-less home?
I take it this is an offer on your part to host a fetus in your body for nine months?
The artificial uterus would be so easy to make if we would just do it... Why advocate for murder, and there is no such thing as a righteous kill, when you could advocate for technological options. This argument is broken.
12 Apr 2012, 7:20 pm
MarketAndChurch wrote:
abacacus wrote:
webcam wrote:
It should be illegal to have a sterilization... It's genocide... they aren't even giving these kids the chance to breed and continue their lineage... it's f***ing ridiculous... Time for an overthrow of Government... Can we really put up with this? College is too early to be making those decisions and they should never be made in any case... It simply can't be justified. It is the exact opposite of Justice. It's coercive genocide. This sh** needs to stop... Being human used to be an honorable thing... now it's genocidal... I almost don't want to count myself among humans if they are going to do sh** like this!
That makes about as much sense as saying wearing a condom is murder. After all, you are wilfully preventing yourself from having a child... must be murder according to you! You probably think I should go to jail for murder (and eventually genocide, I intend to get a vasectomy).
Your opinion does not make fact, you are wrong in this case.
The sperm is not a developing human being. Conception is the beginning of the process, so just think of it as disposing DNA. Murder is unjust killing. There is no killing here to begin with.
Actually the sperm is every bit as much a human life as the fetus is for a time. Zygotes are literally just fertilised eggs.
_________________
A shot gun blast into the face of deceit
You'll gain your just reward.
We'll not rest until the purge is complete
You will reap what you've sown.
12 Apr 2012, 7:21 pm
abacacus wrote:
webcam wrote:
It should be illegal to have a sterilization... It's genocide... they aren't even giving these kids the chance to breed and continue their lineage... it's f***ing ridiculous... Time for an overthrow of Government... Can we really put up with this? College is too early to be making those decisions and they should never be made in any case... It simply can't be justified. It is the exact opposite of Justice. It's coercive genocide. This sh** needs to stop... Being human used to be an honorable thing... now it's genocidal... I almost don't want to count myself among humans if they are going to do sh** like this!
That makes about as much sense as saying wearing a condom is murder. After all, you are wilfully preventing yourself from having a child... must be murder according to you! You probably think I should go to jail for murder (and eventually genocide, I intend to get a vasectomy).
Your opinion does not make fact, you are wrong in this case.
Can it be reversed with the flick of a switch? What if she changes her mind? What if she meets a man and really wants him but she can't give him kids? This stuff happens you know. I met a woman who wanted to marry me but didn't want to have kids, it's pretty much the same... we'd never work out cuz I want to have kids and she doesn't/can't. It ruins human possibilities. You can't take something like reproduction away from a person.
12 Apr 2012, 7:24 pm
PM wrote:
I consider this a social advancement, but unfortunately, politics is probably going to mess it up.
So being among a population that people would very likely abort if given the chance and the statisticly similar cases, you would think this is a social advancement? Letting people get sterilized? You're handing the rights of a genotype to people who don't want you to exist!
12 Apr 2012, 7:24 pm
webcam wrote:
The artificial uterus would be so easy to make if we would just do it... Why advocate for murder, and there is no such thing as a righteous kill, when you could advocate for technological options. This argument is broken.
This isn't a debate about abortion.
Besides, only a small part of the burden of having children is carrying them and giving birth to them. I really want to see those figures that suggest that the number of children unwanted by their biological parents does not exceed the number of families willing to adopt. Most people who want kids want those kids to look like them (or their partner). Even if there was a multitude of willing adopters, would all of them make suitable parents?
_________________
Zombies, zombies will tear us apart...again.
Last edited by puddingmouse on 12 Apr 2012, 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
12 Apr 2012, 7:25 pm
webcam wrote:
abacacus wrote:
webcam wrote:
It should be illegal to have a sterilization... It's genocide... they aren't even giving these kids the chance to breed and continue their lineage... it's f***ing ridiculous... Time for an overthrow of Government... Can we really put up with this? College is too early to be making those decisions and they should never be made in any case... It simply can't be justified. It is the exact opposite of Justice. It's coercive genocide. This sh** needs to stop... Being human used to be an honorable thing... now it's genocidal... I almost don't want to count myself among humans if they are going to do sh** like this!
That makes about as much sense as saying wearing a condom is murder. After all, you are wilfully preventing yourself from having a child... must be murder according to you! You probably think I should go to jail for murder (and eventually genocide, I intend to get a vasectomy).
Your opinion does not make fact, you are wrong in this case.
Can it be reversed with the flick of a switch? What if she changes her mind? What if she meets a man and really wants him but she can't give him kids? This stuff happens you know. I met a woman who wanted to marry me but didn't want to have kids, it's pretty much the same... we'd never work out cuz I want to have kids and she doesn't/can't. It ruins human possibilities. You can't take something like reproduction away from a person.
I can't take it from anyone else, but I can damn well take it from myself (reversible or not). What you're saying is that you have more of a right over peoples bodies than they do, which is ridiculous. You want kids, go and have 'em. None of us are under any obligation to do the same, and if you don't like that, than it sucks to be you.
You can't control other people bud, no matter how much you think you can.
_________________
A shot gun blast into the face of deceit
You'll gain your just reward.
We'll not rest until the purge is complete
You will reap what you've sown.
12 Apr 2012, 7:26 pm
webcam wrote:
PM wrote:
I consider this a social advancement, but unfortunately, politics is probably going to mess it up.
So being among a population that people would very likely abort if given the chance and the statisticly similar cases, you would think this is a social advancement? Letting people get sterilized? You're handing the rights of a genotype to people who don't want you to exist!
It is a social advancement, getting rid of people like yourself and bringing in people who let people control their own bodies.
_________________
A shot gun blast into the face of deceit
You'll gain your just reward.
We'll not rest until the purge is complete
You will reap what you've sown.
12 Apr 2012, 7:30 pm
puddingmouse wrote:
webcam wrote:
Gene therapy is on its way, and there really is no reason not to have kids.
Besides not wanting them? I can think of many reasons to not have kids, but not wanting them is the ultimate reason.
What if you change your mind? What if you meet someone and want to take your relationship to the next level?
12 Apr 2012, 7:33 pm
I'm not advocating for murder. I'm advocating for autonomy over personal issues, which thankfully is available.
Quote:
she can't give him kids
This here shows the problem with your thinking. Women don't "give" people kids. They either decide with their autonomy to invest their life, health, and welfare in acting as life support for a developing fetus for nine months or they decide not to. Women aren't baby vending machines for men.
Sperm is a human life the way a skin cell is a human life. It can't exist on its own as an individual or even develop into one on its own without being a part of something else.
I guess every reason for incompatibility between every pair of romantically incompatible humans is a ruination of human possibilities. So what. A person's allowed to not want kids.
No one is taking reproduction away from "a person." The law in question gives people the personal choice to make choices about their personal bodies. Nothing is being stolen or required of anyone.
Last edited by CloudLayer on 12 Apr 2012, 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
12 Apr 2012, 7:35 pm
webcam wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
webcam wrote:
Gene therapy is on its way, and there really is no reason not to have kids.
Besides not wanting them? I can think of many reasons to not have kids, but not wanting them is the ultimate reason.
What if you change your mind? What if you meet someone and want to take your relationship to the next level?
Other people making decisions they later regret...
How would this be your problem, exactly?
_________________
Zombies, zombies will tear us apart...again.
Last edited by puddingmouse on 12 Apr 2012, 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
12 Apr 2012, 7:36 pm
puddingmouse wrote:
webcam wrote:
The artificial uterus would be so easy to make if we would just do it... Why advocate for murder, and there is no such thing as a righteous kill, when you could advocate for technological options. This argument is broken.
This isn't a debate about abortion.
Besides, only a small part of the burden of having children is carrying them and giving birth to them. I really want to see those figures that suggest that the number of children unwanted by their biological parents does not exceed the number of families willing to adopt. Most people who want kids want those kids to look like them (or their partner). Even if there was a multitude of willing adopters, would all of them make suitable parents?
I would want to adopt an unwanted kid from someone in my family. Everyone has a family. It's not always about wanting kids and not being able to have them, sometimes it's taking responsibility for someone's life. If I have a daughter I will always make it known to her that I will take care of her kid if she gets pregnant and I will raise a family that will do the same.
12 Apr 2012, 7:37 pm
webcam wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
webcam wrote:
The artificial uterus would be so easy to make if we would just do it... Why advocate for murder, and there is no such thing as a righteous kill, when you could advocate for technological options. This argument is broken.
This isn't a debate about abortion.
Besides, only a small part of the burden of having children is carrying them and giving birth to them. I really want to see those figures that suggest that the number of children unwanted by their biological parents does not exceed the number of families willing to adopt. Most people who want kids want those kids to look like them (or their partner). Even if there was a multitude of willing adopters, would all of them make suitable parents?
I would want to adopt an unwanted kid from someone in my family. Everyone has a family. It's not always about wanting kids and not being able to have them, sometimes it's taking responsibility for someone's life. If I have a daughter I will always make it known to her that I will take care of her kid if she gets pregnant and I will raise a family that will do the same.
Great. Not everyone has that privilege.
_________________
Zombies, zombies will tear us apart...again.
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