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Roman
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04 Nov 2006, 1:57 am

Before figuring out whether or not there is a santa claus, lets ask ourselves what we mean by these two words.

DEFINITION: a SANTA CLAUS is a guy who gives children presents in Christmass time

According to this definition, every single person whose job is to pretend to be santa claus, is actually a REAL one. After all, he does give children presents in Christmass time, doesn't he? So he meets the definition. As far as the detail that he gets payed for it is irrelevent -- no one told the kids that santa claus does NOT get payed, right? So, the fact that he DOES get payed doesn't make a santa story a lie.

A better objection is that he doesn't live in North Pole. But this too can be dealt with. Look at me. Up untill 14 I was living in Russia. But when I moved to USA, did I stop being Roman? No. So that is a great philosophical question as to where a person's IDENTITY ends and his particular CIRCUMSTANCES begin. Since the question is philosophical I might as well make my own definition of it when it comes to Santa Claus. So here it is:

Santa Claus:

IDENTITY: a guy who gives kids toys in Christmas time
SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES: he lives in North pole

So if we stick to this definition, then we no longer have to tell our kids that there is no Santa Claus. All we have to do is to inform them that he didn't happen to live in a North Pole.

But then there is a problem that more than one person fits this criteria since a lot of them have such a job. Well, we can deal with it in a following way. Single out ONE random guy out of the people who have that job and call him Santa Claus. So then you can revise your definition as follows:

IDENTITY: a guy who gives kids toys in Christmas time AND whom you happened to meet at such and such time in such and such street
SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES: he lives in a North pole

There is nothing silly about it at all. After all, when we get to know someone, we FIRST think of them as a person whom WE met at such and such time. Only some time AFTER THAT do we learn their CIRCUMSTANCES of where they happened to live.

So, according to this definition, yes there is ONE Santa Claus, just like kids imagine. The only problem is that there are a bunch of others who pose as Santa Claus. But this doesn't negate the existance of that particular "true" Santa Claus.

In other words:

1)Kids are right, there IS santa claus
2)Unfortunately his CIRCUMSTANCES are different: he doesn't live in North pole
3)By the way there are a bunch of other people who do just as great a job as he does



Aspie_Chav
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06 Nov 2006, 3:14 pm

Is there a santa? mmmmmmm No!



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07 Nov 2006, 12:30 pm

Aspie_Chav wrote:
Is there a santa? mmmmmmm No!

Actually, this question isn't as clear-cut or as silly as it seems.

To begin with (at least here in England), there was a legend about a winter spirit who gave presents to good children and lumps of coal to bad ones.
Santa Claus is a Anglicised/Corrupted version of a Dutch name which is Sinterklaas.
The dutch name, I believe is in turn a corruption of St. Nicholas, who was an early bishop who gave gifts to needy children on the 6th December.
Over the centuries, the date shifted to the 25th December and the two stories got fused/muddled and became the Father Christmas we know today.


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07 Nov 2006, 12:36 pm

Roman wrote:
Before figuring out whether or not there is a santa claus, lets ask ourselves what we mean by these two words.

DEFINITION: a SANTA CLAUS is a guy who gives children presents in Christmass time

According to this definition, every single person whose job is to pretend to be santa claus, is actually a REAL one. After all, he does give children presents in Christmass time, doesn't he? So he meets the definition. As far as the detail that he gets payed for it is irrelevent -- no one told the kids that santa claus does NOT get payed, right? So, the fact that he DOES get payed doesn't make a santa story a lie.

[((It's 'paid')) Actually, where I am, the stories infer that he doesn't get paid, they say stuff like 'Purely from the kindness of the heart' OR 'Year after year, the only reward is the happiness of children' and then proceed to imply that he is content with that.]

A better objection is that he doesn't live in North Pole. But this too can be dealt with. Look at me. Up untill 14 I was living in Russia. But when I moved to USA, did I stop being Roman? No. So that is a great philosophical question as to where a person's IDENTITY ends and his particular CIRCUMSTANCES begin. Since the question is philosophical I might as well make my own definition of it when it comes to Santa Claus. So here it is:

Santa Claus:

IDENTITY: a guy who gives kids toys in Christmas time
SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES: he lives in North pole

So if we stick to this definition, then we no longer have to tell our kids that there is no Santa Claus. All we have to do is to inform them that he didn't happen to live in a North Pole.

But then there is a problem that more than one person fits this criteria since a lot of them have such a job. Well, we can deal with it in a following way. Single out ONE random guy out of the people who have that job and call him Santa Claus. So then you can revise your definition as follows:

IDENTITY: a guy who gives kids toys in Christmas time AND whom you happened to meet at such and such time in such and such street
SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES: he lives in a North pole

There is nothing silly about it at all. After all, when we get to know someone, we FIRST think of them as a person whom WE met at such and such time. Only some time AFTER THAT do we learn their CIRCUMSTANCES of where they happened to live.

So, according to this definition, yes there is ONE Santa Claus, just like kids imagine. The only problem is that there are a bunch of others who pose as Santa Claus. But this doesn't negate the existance of that particular "true" Santa Claus.

In other words:

1)Kids are right, there IS santa claus
2)Unfortunately his CIRCUMSTANCES are different: he doesn't live in North pole
3)By the way there are a bunch of other people who do just as great a job as he does


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Aspie_Chav
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08 Nov 2006, 12:04 pm

NTs logic is surrounded Chineese wisper. If Santa had enough time, he would have become a god.



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08 Nov 2006, 4:17 pm

Aspie_Chav wrote:
NTs logic is surrounded Chineese wisper. If Santa had enough time, he would have become a god.

True. However, don't forget that it's mainly only the pre-domiantly christian countries he would be going to and even then, he doesn't have to bother with Spain. The three wise men take care of that one for him.


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13 Nov 2006, 1:03 am

Yes, Virginia

Santa has a number of agencies and franchises.


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14 Nov 2006, 4:54 am

There's not a Santa Claus, there's lots of Santa Clauses. You can see them every year around Xmas in the department stores. What better evidence do you want?

As a matter of fact, I was Santa Claus myself once. Got dressed up in a red and white suit with a long white beard, went out to a festival organized by a charity, where there were thousands of kids, started distributing presents, and got mugged by the little buggers. They yanked at my beard and my clothes, pushed and pulled me this way and that, pinched me to see if I really was as fat as I looked, tried to nick my bag of goodies, screamed in excitement... I positively had to run away from them, which is not easy in a thick Santa suit (which, by the way, was as hot as hell) carrying a bag of presents. I wish the organizers had provided me with Rudolph so I could have got away easier. I figure I only just escaped with my life. Never again... you really do have to be a saint to be Santa.

It's because of all the trauma of the job that Santa's beard and hair have gone white. Ho ho ho indeed!



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14 Nov 2006, 7:01 am

Rory wrote:
There's not a Santa Claus, there's lots of Santa Clauses. You can see them every year around Xmas in the department stores. What better evidence do you want?

As a matter of fact, I was Santa Claus myself once. Got dressed up in a red and white suit with a long white beard, went out to a festival organized by a charity, where there were thousands of kids, started distributing presents, and got mugged by the little buggers. They yanked at my beard and my clothes, pushed and pulled me this way and that, pinched me to see if I really was as fat as I looked, tried to nick my bag of goodies, screamed in excitement... I positively had to run away from them, which is not easy in a thick Santa suit (which, by the way, was as hot as hell) carrying a bag of presents. I wish the organizers had provided me with Rudolph so I could have got away easier. I figure I only just escaped with my life. Never again... you really do have to be a saint to be Santa.

It's because of all the trauma of the job that Santa's beard and hair have gone white. Ho ho ho indeed!


Hence Santa's other name is SAINT. Nicholas.


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Mitch8817
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14 Nov 2006, 7:20 am

>>NTs logic is surrounded Chineese wisper. If Santa had enough time, he would have become a god.<<

It's funny how ignorant disparities are created between NT's and those with Autism by the people around here.



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14 Nov 2006, 11:48 am

I agree!

My brother is NT, he's not ignorant, he's not stupid, he just thinks differently to me.

Without another point of view you have no comparison to make.

I was trying to explain to my NT girlfriend tonight how and why I can't have friends, she didn't understand because to her the push and pull of friendships is natural, to me its terrifying.

She is extra strong socially, does that make her stupid?

No it means she is what she is, and she appreciates me (at least lately :P) because I offer her a point of you unlike anything she can find elsewhere.

Wisdom is pointless without humility.

We have our own forms of ignorance, just as they do, only in connection can we bridge the gap.

Yes many people are horrible, but you'll find some of them have aspergers. Obviously many of them don't, but we don't form the majority of the population do we?


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14 Nov 2006, 1:28 pm

Here here