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Ann2011
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29 Mar 2012, 8:21 pm

Smoking marijuana helps me to function. It widens my perspective so that I'm not focused on minutiae and can see the bigger picture. It makes me interested in things again.



Saturn
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30 Mar 2012, 2:59 pm

@ Invader (I'm not quoting this time or it will start getting ridiculous).

Some good insights there I think. I've read a little Jung, mainly on the personality types. I found him very good on this although I'm a little wary of what I've heard about some of his more 'far fetched' ideas. There's a free Jung podcast of about 30 episodes on the internet. I think you can get it at LearnOutLoud if yo're interested. Perhaps I'll take a look in due course at Jung on the projection of unconscious contents. Perhaps it might be effective to try some marijuana with all this in mind. Do you think marijuana could be one of those things that one might convince themselves that one doesn't need when actually one really wants (and needs) it?



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30 Mar 2012, 3:09 pm

Surfman wrote:
Freaken wow!

Personal growth as related to drug use, is also a combination of other factors such as daily enjoyment of life, good nutrition and exercise.

Personally, I would rather be a cannabis user with no coffee, junk food, TV or meds and other bad things to take in your body, than the other way a round.

I see it that as a sensible scientific choice

Primary spiritual experiences in serene settings, brought about by ethnobotanical use of mushrooms, peyote, morning glory et al, have been in use my man in all societies for millennia, maybe 10's of thousands of years. Even Anglo Saxon, African, Asian and Spanish et al, have made use of these medicinal, spiritual and mentally developmental plants.


I'm interested to use marijuana with some kind of personal development in mind. Historically (in my younger past) it tends to have been something that I've used for entertainment, fun, enjoyment in conjunction with our modern culture. It's hard to make a shift and see it as something that many humans have used throughout time for more, 'creative', shall we say, purposes. Maybe I'm ready to do this. There's nothing wrong with a bit of fun mind you. It's just that often when I have occasionally partook in more recent times, I have found myself wanting to focus on what was coming up in my mind in terms of new insights and perspectives on how my psychological life was going.



Blackholesun
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30 Mar 2012, 6:06 pm

I urge Aspies not to take LSD.

Just trust me on that, it took months for me to put my life back together.



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30 Mar 2012, 9:27 pm

Blackholesun wrote:
I urge Aspies not to take LSD.

Just trust me on that, it took months for me to put my life back together.

Same here. I did it more than i should I suppose, in a pretty short period of time.

LSD and mushrooms, and actually mushrooms had a much stronger (and scarier) effect on me.

All of this relates to low latent inhibition, psychedelic drugs lower your LI and it's fact that Aspies(at least many) already have a much lower latent inhibition than NTs.

The psychiatric group with lowest LI level is schizophrenics.


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Letsrave
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30 Mar 2012, 9:32 pm

MDMA and self reflection changed my whole life



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30 Mar 2012, 9:33 pm

I've had a couple of terrifying experiences trying to interact with groups of NT's while I was on psychedelics. Wrong planet x 1,000 ! !!

Used alone or with a supportive small group, they were quite eye-opening for me at the time. No desire to repeat the experience however. :)



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30 Mar 2012, 9:37 pm

mushroo wrote:
I've had a couple of terrifying experiences trying to communicate with groups of NT's while I was on psychedelics.

Used alone or with a supportive small group, they were quite eye-opening for me at the time. No desire to repeat the experience however. :)


I did have some positive effects too. But it changed me somehow. Pros/cons but I'd love to get rid of these daily sensory issues that I have now.

I might have changed anyway, I'm not sure. Some Aspies have high latent inhibition instead of low which doesn't make sense to me as far as sensory issues are concerned.

I'm thinking people with ADHD also must have LLI and this is what compromised me IMO.

So those of you who have ADHD traits along with AS or just feel that you may be slightly more inclined to lose your sannity that the average population should just be careful lol.


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Invader
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30 Mar 2012, 11:42 pm

Saturn wrote:
@ Invader (I'm not quoting this time or it will start getting ridiculous).

Some good insights there I think. I've read a little Jung, mainly on the personality types. I found him very good on this although I'm a little wary of what I've heard about some of his more 'far fetched' ideas. There's a free Jung podcast of about 30 episodes on the internet. I think you can get it at LearnOutLoud if yo're interested. Perhaps I'll take a look in due course at Jung on the projection of unconscious contents. Perhaps it might be effective to try some marijuana with all this in mind. Do you think marijuana could be one of those things that one might convince themselves that one doesn't need when actually one really wants (and needs) it?


Well I suppose that it's possible that psychedelic substances have had an effect on human evolution, and have been used by our ancestors to expand their consciousness in some ways that were essential to us developing in the way that we have as a species, with things like our appreciation of music, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that anyone would ever naturally "need" to take weed.

If drugs are being used for self discovery, they are more like a shortcut than a necessary step in the process. It could be harder without them but not impossible, and doing things the hard way often gives someone more experience to learn from and a more lasting understanding of the problem.

Using anything as a crutch for too long will always end up weakening a person's ability to function without it. Even if a person is in such a bad state that they can't cope unless they smoke, it's still not the lack of drugs that is the problem, it's the lack of success in other areas of life. Living a life without weed will have no negative effect on any living creature. It is not something that we are programmed to need, and any negative feelings that arise from a lack of weed are being caused by something else, whether it is depression or anger, or being denied the personal freedom to use it, or whatever.



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31 Mar 2012, 2:51 am

Invader wrote:
If drugs are being used for self discovery, they are more like a shortcut than a necessary step in the process. It could be harder without them but not impossible, and doing things the hard way often gives someone more experience to learn from and a more lasting understanding of the problem.


I think certain drugs can be used to jump start the process of self discovery, or to help get through major roadblocks along the road. But the bulk of the process must be done while sober, through personal effort, or you won't have much of a real or lasting change.

If you can do it without help, do it. If you cannot...get help. Simple enough I think.


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31 Mar 2012, 6:54 am

I've never done drugs for a number of reason(father an alcoholic, illegality, worried how they would affect my brain). However, there is one and only one drug I have any interest in whatsoever: DMT. Anyone know if it affects Aspies any differently than others?


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Saturn
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31 Mar 2012, 3:09 pm

Invader wrote:
Saturn wrote:
@ Invader (I'm not quoting this time or it will start getting ridiculous).

Some good insights there I think. I've read a little Jung, mainly on the personality types. I found him very good on this although I'm a little wary of what I've heard about some of his more 'far fetched' ideas. There's a free Jung podcast of about 30 episodes on the internet. I think you can get it at LearnOutLoud if yo're interested. Perhaps I'll take a look in due course at Jung on the projection of unconscious contents. Perhaps it might be effective to try some marijuana with all this in mind. Do you think marijuana could be one of those things that one might convince themselves that one doesn't need when actually one really wants (and needs) it?


Well I suppose that it's possible that psychedelic substances have had an effect on human evolution, and have been used by our ancestors to expand their consciousness in some ways that were essential to us developing in the way that we have as a species, with things like our appreciation of music, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that anyone would ever naturally "need" to take weed.

If drugs are being used for self discovery, they are more like a shortcut than a necessary step in the process. It could be harder without them but not impossible, and doing things the hard way often gives someone more experience to learn from and a more lasting understanding of the problem.

Using anything as a crutch for too long will always end up weakening a person's ability to function without it. Even if a person is in such a bad state that they can't cope unless they smoke, it's still not the lack of drugs that is the problem, it's the lack of success in other areas of life. Living a life without weed will have no negative effect on any living creature. It is not something that we are programmed to need, and any negative feelings that arise from a lack of weed are being caused by something else, whether it is depression or anger, or being denied the personal freedom to use it, or whatever.


Yes. I suppose cannabis is extrinsic rather than intrinsic to our natural needs as human beings. As you suggest, cannabis can perhaps facilitate the realisation of intrinsic needs or could act as a substitute for or distraction from meeting those needs. But the core long term issue is perhaps meeting those needs directly one way or another.

I was reading a bit of Jung on projection today. The depth with which he's gone into such matters is immense.



legomyego
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01 Apr 2012, 12:56 am

unlike the common reasoning for trying drugs curiosity had nothing to do with me doing any drug. I began using drugs in 7th grade, and I never smoked weed until 11th grade. I began using drugs to quite my mind and calm me down so I wouldn't have constant melt down. muscle relaxers and opiates are among my first drugs to use, and they seemed to work well for me though I didn't realize the negative impacts until later. I have found opiates to help me but I also find them to be very addictive, luckily they are expensive except for the unclean heroine which is not like the clean heroine one might get say 100+ years ago when heroine and cocaine were common practice to use in my country the United States. I don't really understand the curiosity factor, it's pretty easy to find out what drugs will do thanks to the internet so what is there to be curious about? Granted we all react differently etc etc...and we all have different tastes/preferences.

anyways....now out of highschool and in college now I still use opiates when I can afford them, and have found klonopin to be a valuable aid to me for my ocd as well as zoloft though lesser so. I have found psychadelics to be very negative experiences for my mind which can take a long time to recover from. Stimulants cause great anxiety in me so I avoid them, though I do drink tea I cannot drink coffee because of the anxiety it causes me. Depressants are my preference as I am an adult now I still take drugs for many of the reasons I did as kid which is to quite my mind and lower my sensory issues.

stay away from overdosed OTC medications to get "high" i've done this many times when i was younger and I find motion sickness tabs to be the worst and possibly most frightening "high" though its more of a low IMO. Under the influence of anticholinergic's you can lose reality and enter a frightening new reality which you cannot discern from the previous reality.
I believe they have caused permanent damage to my brain, and memory system.



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03 Apr 2012, 12:21 am

Blackholesun wrote:
I urge Aspies not to take LSD.

Just trust me on that, it took months for me to put my life back together.


Too late, I've found i enjoy it quite a bit though I only use it on rare occasions, but I don't really recommend anyone else take it......as that's totally up to them, but yes it can be dangerous and a bad trips are certainly no fun.



ShamanicExperinces
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16 May 2012, 2:26 am

for me, marijuana has greatly improved my life. Helps my depression, anxiety, migraines, and makes me just a bit more aware of other peoples feelings and social cues where id usually miss em, its like the "slowing down" effect gets me to notice those things. I never really got all giggly n such from it like amny people i know have, even of the same stuff haha It just makes me act more "normal"

As for psychedelics, those have given me some serious insight into myself, my psyche, and how i function and how to improve my functioning. Maybe its just cuz of how i am lol if i freak out or have a very bad trip, i can talk or think myself out it easily and without much effort. I am very intrested in there spirtual aspect though, the shamanic side intrests me a great deal, for me anyways, they help develop my shamanic spirtuality, which in turn lets me feel more at peace and function better when not on anything, and i only do them rarely, probably every few months just to reanalyze my life and where i am and where im going.

we all react diffrently i suppose, i have a friend whose an NT and cant really do psychedelics because they freak him out too much even though he loves there effects, he just flips out and i am unsure why. Most people tell me i put out a somewhat intense vibe when we trip together, but he flips out no matter who its with lol


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Bunders
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18 May 2012, 10:19 am

Invader: "The weed isn't the problem, the state of your life is the problem, the weed is only highlighting what is already on your mind, and making your thoughts about it seem a lot more significant. "

I'd be careful about saying that because

"Negative feelings and thoughts exist for a reason, to let you know that you are not supposed to be living a certain way, and that you don't want to."

I'd say for a percentage of people the way they're not supposed to be living and don't want to be living is stoned. I'm sure that's true of me. There isn't a drug I don't get on with like I don't get on with cannabis and while I'm happy to take the view that "that's just me" or "each to their own" with the global population approaching 7 billion it's unlikely to be true and with no age restrictions on these forums I'd urge caution in what ideas you choose to promote.

What I'm trying to say is that if anyone is reading this and thinking "I don't like being stoned therefore there must be something wrong with my life and through smoking pot I'll be able to know if I've fixed it or not" Then I implore you to abandon this idea. If you're not happy then be honest with yourself about it, no pot required. And if you can't help yourself then find someone who can and will, or find ways to cope but be aware that pot specifically and drugs generally are unlikely to be the solution you're looking for.

"You either need to find a way to distract yourself from the negativity, or fix your life. It's pretty much just the same situation you'd be in without weed anyway. "

Amen to that!

"The only other option is to use it less often. That way, the euphoria will be much more noticable, because you're not as used to experiencing it."

No, another option is to not use it at all. It's pretty simple really, to quote Hermes from Futurama "When push comes to shove, you've gotta do what you love, even if it's not a good idea."

If you don't love it: Don't do it!

EXPECIALLY: "My concern is the relationship to schizophrenia that AS may have and how any kind of drugs can affect someone who may have the potential to develop it.

Yes, I know it has not been proven the smoking marijuana or taking other drugs actually causes schizophrenia in individuals who are predisposed to it, but it also hasn't been proven that it doesn't. You don't see it happening often, that's because most people aren't predisposed. "

Thanks for saying this! If what I feel when I'm extremely stoned is what schizophrenics experience for months on end then I really aught to start donating to schizophrenia research charities. I've taken all sorts personally, high dose LSD, Ayahuasca and while I wouldn't recommend any of it I can't emphasise enough to the happy stoners of the world is that one mans medicine is another mans poison and that charitably recommending circumstances under which others might know the joys of pot is reckless without also saying "maybe it's just not for you eh?"

There is also the issue of hyper-sensitivity to drugs. Say person A's genome doesn't encode for an enzyme that in 99.9% of the population would modulate the effect of some drug or another and they are affected very differently than the rest of us. I knew one person, for example, who was truly mind-bogglingly sensitive to MDMA, so much so that what most would consider an insultingly low sub-threshold dose would result in delirium and indicate professional medical attention in their case.

All that being said I too am in favor of drug law reform. Given that the risks of driving can be managed with mandatory licensing and training I don't see why the risks of psycho-active experimentation can't be managed in a similar way. Education and all that. I'd go further and say that even if it were possible for an "elected, democratic" government to protect the people it represents (whoever they may be) from the experiences they desire, against their will, which so far no government has been able or willing to do, they still have no right to do so. Unless you buy the argument of a militarised population whereby the state is controlled not by it's electorate but by it's external military relationships and it's population exists primarily to support it's military representation.

I believe the current scenario does more harm than good. It's my understanding, for example, that one of the most economical routes to MDMA from reasonably available (to criminals) precursor material involves the use of a mercury compound as a catalyst. The idea that someone claiming to represent me would make a criminal of myself, my friends and my family for experimenting on themselves with chemicals I find outrageous enough without the knowledge that one can't assume any quality control in criminal laboratories and that mercury salts are being used in the production of chemicals that our friends and neighbors are willingly ingesting brings the horror of war to the war on drugs as far as I am concerned.

Just in case any of you are unaware of the potential consequences of the unregulated use of mercury behold the mighty you-tube

Grr, I can't even link to youtube yet even though the button is visible, anyway, search for: ihFkyPv1jtU

Also, I understand that newer research indicates that ketamine use at threshold dose can have a lasting (week to ten days) anti-depressant effect and that Psilocybe mushroom use can also be an effective treatment for depression (in some individuals). Frankly I'd sooner take a combined large dose of each of those two than a little Cannabis but I certainly wouldn't recommend any of it. To anyone.

There was an interesting Google Versus debate of the issue.

youtube: gSrN2zIRwN8

B.

p.s. Sorry this turned into a huge rant but I hate seeing "drugs work wonders for me" without any "ok, but they do terrible things to others"
p.p.s Yes that's a tree frog with psychoactive skin excretions that I have as an avatar.



Last edited by Bunders on 18 May 2012, 11:14 am, edited 2 times in total.