missing non-verbal cues=mind-blindness?

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EDIT: NOTE: this was the 6th post in this thread, but the time stamps have gone awry, the earlier ones having a future date and thus appearing to be "later".
The thread was started by Veridicus
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"missing non-verbal cues=mind-blindness?"

I'm going to divide things here.

Missing non-verbal clues is a check, an impediment, to communication. There are plenty of versions of it, and it's not unique to autism, anywhere on the spectrum.

Most classically it occurs across cultures, where the significance of gestures, dress or ornamentation may not be known, and therefore information is missed or mis-understood.

Body-language and facial expression is a part of that. Being raised in one culture, it is normally expected that these will be familiar and well read. Not being good at it will leave both sides of an encounter feeling they have been talking to someone from another country.

It *contributes* to mind-blindness.
Different sources do use this expression differently (which REALLY helps communication)

At its most extreme it involves not being able to understand that another mind exists, different from one's own. There are child development experiments that test when this ability develops.
(the hidden sweet game, the cow in the barn game... The idea that someone else might not know what you know, or not be able to see what you see, comes, usually, with growth.)

This is the ability to recognise other people as separate, different, from oneself, and its absence or deficiency marks a very real mind-blindness. (and again is not confined to autism).

Watch for it wherever someone is unaware that other viewpoints than their own exist.
It's rarely absolute. It's frequently unconscious.
To the outsider it looks like denial: "how could they not know, realise..?"
But that can cut both ways, and it turn out that its the observer who lacks flexibility.
(as in the fashion fanatic horrified by the Aspie's lack of dress sense. They cannot conceive, are mind-blind, to the possibility that dress may be of utter unimportance to a human being.)

I think I may not have properly understood what is commonly meant by mind-blindness. I'd thought it just meant a blind-spot in the mind of the perceiver (which it is), but it seems most specifically to mean a blind-spot in the mind re: the mind of another perceived individual.

Ok. So that means there is quite a bit more going on than just having one of these mental blind-spots towards picking up non-verbal cues. That's just the first contributing step towards the overall phenomenon. Gotcha, thanks

similar to prosopagnosia, or face-blindness?
or is it simply an inability to retain that particular set of learned observations.
I'm a bit confused.
Is it possible to hear "does not pick up on nonverbal communication" and kind of not
know exactly what is being referred to ? ehhh... I mean I know what smiles mean (I think)
and leaning toward/away from people as nonverbal communication. Intellectually. Is it just that putting that intellectual knowledge into practice is more difficult?
I know that's a jumbled mess of questions but I'm trying to wrap my mind around this.
Any takers?

OH GOD, I wish I had NO idea what you were talking about. This is THE main thing ALL AS people are supposed to have, and the one real bad part!

Just a few months ago, I went into a drug store, and a woman, who WAS kind of pretty, asked me some off the wall questions. I asked questions that were logical but, when I left, I thought "YOU IDIOT!! !! !! She was trying to FLIRT!"! NOW, I know it is just AS!
That apparantly happened about 6 times, and half were told to me AFTER the fact by friends, etc... When I think of all the occasions I messed up on, etc... And I can never find out for sure. It WOULD raise my confidence level if I knew for sure.

Some people may have some wierd ideas about me, but it is just due to lack of time, narrow focus, social ineptness, and high standards. OH WELL.....

Sometimes, I can't detect sarcasm. As for smiles, I do okay with them.

As for body language? I have seen books on it. Due to MY observations, and its application to me, it is GARBAGE! So I don't know what one should do there.

Steve

Steve, somethings you CAN fake in regards to body language, others you cannot. Flirting for me is just about impossible. I know what it is, and I know how its done, but I dont do it automatically, and it depends a great deal on timing, so if you ahve to process a cue intellectually, you may not respond in time, even if you know how to.

Yar, I pretty much have a mind-blindness when it comes to that, for sure. I can never get the tone of voice right, or the content maybe? As for sustained flirtaceous relationships, that's even more out of the question.

I'm going to come at this from an ADHD angle because that is the disorder that I know very well. ADHDers are often reactive. It's not that they have more emotions but that they just have less control over them. Funny thing, even when asked, ADHDers often don't see this trait in themselves. "I DO NOT HAVE AN ANGER MANAGEMENT PROBLEM"! !! The same could be true for social cues and ASD. I'd guess that generally the brain has not developed enough in these regions for it to be as functional as it is in others.

ASD like ADHD is also a developmental disorder which means that over time things can improve. That doesn't mean that the difficulties will all go away. There are studies that show that ADHDers misjudge the degree of their impairment in adulthood. A good number think that there are no longer any problems. They have checked this self perception by looking at the self assessment of the subjects vrs assessments from their spouse and others. Interesting stuff and I'm wondering if that sort self perception can be skewered with other disorders.