It's not that we are socially impaired...
Well, it's more like being unable to conform to norms.
"Socially impaired" is such a nasty term anyway. What's it even supposed to mean? "Oh, look, that person's acting STRANGE". I don't know... It's just convention, nothing more. It's not even a nice convention. It's just "always been that way", my favourite argument.
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EXPANDED CIRCLE OF FIFTHS
"It's how they see things. It's a way of bringing class to an environment, and I say that pejoratively because, obviously, good music is good music however it's created, however it's motivated." - Thomas Newman
Kalinda
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It's hard not to apply culture and society to everything sometimes. There is a definite issue with a person who cannot be aware of reality and accept the world as it is, not that they are in denial, but the illness itself impairs their judgement.
Luckily you can sometimes come back to reality, but it's very difficult to maintain a normal life with a mental disorder. I realize that I do qualify for Aspergers, but my main issue is basically schizoaffective, or paranoid schizophrenia. One of them...though my paranoia isn't that bad, and my moods aren't that bad either, it's that I have it under control that matters.
"Socially impaired" is such a nasty term anyway. What's it even supposed to mean? "Oh, look, that person's acting STRANGE". I don't know... It's just convention, nothing more. It's not even a nice convention. It's just "always been that way", my favourite argument.
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This proves that lack of empathy is not an Autistic trait. I don't know why so many people believe it, and I don't know why so many non-Autistics make out that lack of empathy is an Autistic trait without taking a look at themselves first.
The majority of NTs only tend to feel empathy for someone else if they have had similar experiences themselves. Otherwise, they don't want to know. If universal empathy was a NT trait, then Autistics would be much more socially accepted or understood. NTs who can feel for Autistics are those who perhaps have a close relative with Autism or something. Otherwise, they can't have the empathy. They just look at someone who is Autistic and think, ''oh, they're weird, keep away from them and exclude them from our gang!'' If that is empathy, then what isn't? If NTs were empathetic, they'd look at an Autistic and think, ''I can easily imagine what it must be like to be that person, so maybe I will give them a chance.''
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The majority of NTs only tend to feel empathy for someone else if they have had similar experiences themselves. Otherwise, they don't want to know. If universal empathy was a NT trait, then Autistics would be much more socially accepted or understood. NTs who can feel for Autistics are those who perhaps have a close relative with Autism or something. Otherwise, they can't have the empathy. They just look at someone who is Autistic and think, ''oh, they're weird, keep away from them and exclude them from our gang!'' If that is empathy, then what isn't? If NTs were empathetic, they'd look at an Autistic and think, ''I can easily imagine what it must be like to be that person, so maybe I will give them a chance.''
That is an amazing point. I personally feel like I have empathy for people who feel sad, or hurt, or helpless... But I have no empathy for bullies, or those who cause pain to others, because I don't know what it's like to be in their shoes. I really think you're onto something there.
The majority of NTs only tend to feel empathy for someone else if they have had similar experiences themselves. Otherwise, they don't want to know. If universal empathy was a NT trait, then Autistics would be much more socially accepted or understood. NTs who can feel for Autistics are those who perhaps have a close relative with Autism or something. Otherwise, they can't have the empathy. They just look at someone who is Autistic and think, ''oh, they're weird, keep away from them and exclude them from our gang!'' If that is empathy, then what isn't? If NTs were empathetic, they'd look at an Autistic and think, ''I can easily imagine what it must be like to be that person, so maybe I will give them a chance.''
This is exactly what it is. It's projection.
IDGI, thought/emotional projection and empathy are opposite is some ways, aren't they?
NT women are said to be the most empathetic-NT women are known for projecting their own emotional states onto others more so than anyone else. Look it up, even psychs say so.
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I think there's two aspects to empathy, you first have to detect an emotion is present in another person and then feel the empathetic response. With autism the ability to detect the emotions (though body language/intonation etc) is impaired thus we may appear to show no empathy, but if the emotion is detected autistic people can be just as caring as any NT (although their responses may not always be 100% appropriate). In contrast a sociopath can typically detect emotions (sometimes better than average) yet either choose to ignore them or even use them to their advantage, that is true lack of empathy.
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Your Aspie score: 146 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 51 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie (confirmed w/ diagnosis)
This is true, alos cognitive V affective empathy. I don't know the strict definitions for either.
I think most NTs are able to detect and impaired in what I consider "real" empathy-actually feeling what other people feel.
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OliveOilMom
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Socially impaired is like Tom Hanks in "Big" when he went to that party with the girl, before he had sex. It's like Dudly Moore in Arthur in almost the entire movie. It's like Bluto in Animal House. Hell, it's like everybody at the Delta House in Animal House. I don't imagine we are going out doing things to quite that extent.
Although I'd dearly love to go to a party like in Big and see somebody dressed like he was. I'd make a beeline to talk to him!
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I'm giving it another shot. We will see.
My forum is still there and everyone is welcome to come join as well. There is a private women only subforum there if anyone is interested. Also, there is no CAPTCHA.
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The majority of NTs only tend to feel empathy for someone else if they have had similar experiences themselves. Otherwise, they don't want to know. If universal empathy was a NT trait, then Autistics would be much more socially accepted or understood. NTs who can feel for Autistics are those who perhaps have a close relative with Autism or something. Otherwise, they can't have the empathy. They just look at someone who is Autistic and think, ''oh, they're weird, keep away from them and exclude them from our gang!'' If that is empathy, then what isn't? If NTs were empathetic, they'd look at an Autistic and think, ''I can easily imagine what it must be like to be that person, so maybe I will give them a chance.''
This is exactly what it is. It's projection.
IDGI, thought/emotional projection and empathy are opposite is some ways, aren't they?
NT women are said to be the most empathetic-NT women are known for projecting their own emotional states onto others more so than anyone else. Look it up, even psychs say so.
Women are more empathetic than men. Although women can be judgemental to eachother in a bitchy way, it's not so much to do with empathy. I seem to get more men criticising me over things what most women would understand me over, as though men just haven't got a clue and some are hypocrits.
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The majority of NTs only tend to feel empathy for someone else if they have had similar experiences themselves. Otherwise, they don't want to know. If universal empathy was a NT trait, then Autistics would be much more socially accepted or understood. NTs who can feel for Autistics are those who perhaps have a close relative with Autism or something. Otherwise, they can't have the empathy. They just look at someone who is Autistic and think, ''oh, they're weird, keep away from them and exclude them from our gang!'' If that is empathy, then what isn't? If NTs were empathetic, they'd look at an Autistic and think, ''I can easily imagine what it must be like to be that person, so maybe I will give them a chance.''
I kind of agree and disagree with your second point. The typical aspie will flag some subconscious signals that they are not quite right. The difficulty for anyone who picks up on this is that they can't tell exactly what's wrong. The typical aspie then can't also spot that this has happened and provide any re-assurance or compensating words or actions.
This isn't anyones fault, this is the condition.
Jason
The majority of NTs only tend to feel empathy for someone else if they have had similar experiences themselves. Otherwise, they don't want to know. If universal empathy was a NT trait, then Autistics would be much more socially accepted or understood. NTs who can feel for Autistics are those who perhaps have a close relative with Autism or something. Otherwise, they can't have the empathy. They just look at someone who is Autistic and think, ''oh, they're weird, keep away from them and exclude them from our gang!'' If that is empathy, then what isn't? If NTs were empathetic, they'd look at an Autistic and think, ''I can easily imagine what it must be like to be that person, so maybe I will give them a chance.''
This is exactly what it is. It's projection.
IDGI, thought/emotional projection and empathy are opposite is some ways, aren't they?
NT women are said to be the most empathetic-NT women are known for projecting their own emotional states onto others more so than anyone else. Look it up, even psychs say so.
Women are more empathetic than men. Although women can be judgemental to eachother in a bitchy way, it's not so much to do with empathy. I seem to get more men criticising me over things what most women would understand me over, as though men just haven't got a clue and some are hypocrits.
Honest to God-only people who have actually understand and detected my real feelings have been NT men. Women have always projected their feelings on me, even in every day conversation that has nothing to do with me I see them do it.
It' not necessarily bad but I think it's false to call them the most empathetic sex for this reason. I think NT men might just be more skilled ta this.
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I have empathy. I feel compassion for when bad things happen to people I know---the problem for me is overcoming the awkwardness of showing the compassion for that person. It's difficult for me to tell people how I feel about them. My therapist suggested I script out things. But then I feel like I am just acting out something, but as he said, I am then acting out what is already inside me---then it's awkward again.
I cannot say however that I truly feel the depth of empathy that the typical NT feels. I do know I was a sobbing mess when my grandparents were killed in a car wreck years ago. It's like I sometimes have too much emotion, and sometimes too little---and getting it just right is difficult.
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Perhaps the things that you imagine 'NTs' to be seeing and imagining that you imagine are not really there, are just as much a reality for those people as your subjective experience is a reality for you. While I can feel that my own subjectivity is denied by some of the things that I encounter in the world, I think that to deny the subjectivity of others by refusing to recognise their outlook as valid, is a step toward denying subjectivity in general and thus also oneself.
Well maybe men and women just express empathy in a different way. On the bus when I'm sitting on a seat that faces backwards, usually when a man will come and sit opposite me and look quite uncomfortable at the thought of facing somebody close up, so he makes sure he is looking out of the window and tries not to look straight forward in case we catch eachother's eye and end up staring at eachother which can feel very intimidating for one or both of you (unless it's for other reasons). But usually when a woman comes and sits there, she is quite happy to sit staring at me without giving it a thought that it makes me feel uncomfortable, and it seems that a lot of women seem to enjoy staring at somebody else (obviously I don't share this trait). So I like the way men try to position the situation so I can feel more comfortable, instead of always trying to intimidate me. That's where I know that sometimes women can be bitchy without caring about another person's feelings.
Obviously this is not always the case, some men can intimidate and some women can be more polite, but I go out nearly every day and I encounter more feelings of intimidation from other women than I do with men. But, I could be wrong - maybe men intimidate eachother but not so much the opposite sex and maybe women prefer to intimidate eachother and not so much the opposite sex. I'm not a man so I shall never know how men view other men, but I bloody know how women view other women.
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