Another Obama Attack on the Second Amendment!

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lapinmort
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12 Apr 2012, 4:02 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/former-arms-dealer-faces-possible-life-sentence-064007753.html

Absolutely outrageous!

When arms-dealing is outlawed, then only outlaws will sell arms!


So where's the tie with Obama again?



ArrantPariah
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12 Apr 2012, 5:04 pm

lapinmort wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/former-arms-dealer-faces-possible-life-sentence-064007753.html

Absolutely outrageous!

When arms-dealing is outlawed, then only outlaws will sell arms!


So where's the tie with Obama again?


Well, the last Fox News mention of Viktor Bout was from last October, when the trial was just getting started.

http://www.foxnews.com/search-results/s ... of%20death

Hence, Rupert must have decided either that there was nothing that could be construed as embarrassing to the President, or that there was no tie to President Obama.

Also, Mr. Bout was arrested by the US Drug Enforcement Agency in Thailand in 2008, which technically would involve either blaming or praising President Bush.

Hence, the pundits (minus yours truly) are silent. Even on this blatant assault on the Second Amendment!



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14 Apr 2012, 6:41 am

And, the apostle Newt Gingrich says that the United Nations (which most of us identify as an evil, leftist, New World Organisation) should actively promote guns throughout the world.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index. ... ons_s.html

Quote:
Newt Gingrich: United Nations should adopt treaty giving everyone on earth gun rights

ST. LOUIS — Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich says the United Nations should adopt a treaty giving everyone on the planet the right to bear firearms.

The GOP presidential candidate told the National Rifle Association convention Friday in St. Louis that the group has been too timid in promoting gun rights.

Gingrich said there would be fewer women raped, children killed and villages destroyed if everyone had the right to carry a gun.


Right on! The United Nations needs to get away from its socialists agenda of improving health, ending conflicts, and whatever New Order stuff they do, and just see to it that everyone gets a gun!

In the USA, we may be behind the rest of the world in science, literacy, and health, but we are very proud to be the world leader in gun violence!

That's what American Conservatism is all about!



ruveyn
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14 Apr 2012, 6:51 am

ArrantPariah wrote:

Right on! The United Nations needs to get away from its socialists agenda of improving health, ending conflicts, and whatever New Order stuff they do, and just see to it that everyone gets a gun!



It would be a lot better if every American got a reasonable break, than if every American got a gun. Zimmerman had a gun. Now look where he is. If he had stayed in the car we would not even know his name. Guns have their uses. They are used in war, used in honest to goodness self and family defense and for hunting. They are also used to commit murder and theft. Guns are a mixed bag. If everyone had a gun life in the U.S. would be like life in the O.K. Coral. If we had decent police forces very few of us would need guns.

ruveyn



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14 Apr 2012, 7:16 am

ruveyn wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:

Right on! The United Nations needs to get away from its socialists agenda of improving health, ending conflicts, and whatever New Order stuff they do, and just see to it that everyone gets a gun!



It would be a lot better if every American got a reasonable break, than if every American got a gun. Zimmerman had a gun. Now look where he is. If he had stayed in the car we would not even know his name. Guns have their uses. They are used in war, used in honest to goodness self and family defense and for hunting. They are also used to commit murder and theft. Guns are a mixed bag. If everyone had a gun life in the U.S. would be like life in the O.K. Coral. If we had decent police forces very few of us would need guns.

ruveyn


Ah! You're a closeted Liberal. :shameonyou:



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14 Apr 2012, 9:13 am

ruveyn wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:

Right on! The United Nations needs to get away from its socialists agenda of improving health, ending conflicts, and whatever New Order stuff they do, and just see to it that everyone gets a gun!



It would be a lot better if every American got a reasonable break, than if every American got a gun. Zimmerman had a gun. Now look where he is. If he had stayed in the car we would not even know his name. Guns have their uses. They are used in war, used in honest to goodness self and family defense and for hunting. They are also used to commit murder and theft. Guns are a mixed bag. If everyone had a gun life in the U.S. would be like life in the O.K. Coral. If we had decent police forces very few of us would need guns.

ruveyn


Quote:
They are also used to commit murder and theft.

Operative words here are used to meaning it takes a criminal hand and mind to do the actual deed. Forks and spoons do no create obesity.

Quote:
If everyone had a gun life in the U.S. would be like life in the O.K. Coral.

Then the would-be victim would have the capability to shoot back and you wouldn’t even have very many attempts to victimize them. It's the hard target as opposed to soft target reality.
For all practical purposes an armed society is a polite society.

Quote:
Guns are a mixed bag.

Yes, I have a good assortment of them myself.

Quote:
If we had decent police forces very few of us would need guns.

It aint ever gonna happen. More cops and fewer guns in private hands sounds like symptoms of a police state, regardless of how they do things in other countries.
Better to have fewer but competent cops to maintain general order and a society of people that can take care of themselves.
When seconds count the police are only minutes away.



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14 Apr 2012, 9:30 am

ruveyn wrote:
If we had decent police forces very few of us would need guns.


Maybe so, but that would require a level of omniscience somewhat reminiscent of the "precogs" in the movie Minority Report.



ArrantPariah
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14 Apr 2012, 9:38 am

Raptor wrote:
Quote:
They are also used to commit murder and theft.

Operative words here are used to meaning it takes a criminal hand and mind to do the actual deed. Forks and spoons do no create obesity.


A criminal mind is required to create obesity. :twisted:

Raptor wrote:
Quote:
If everyone had a gun life in the U.S. would be like life in the O.K. Coral.

Then the would-be victim would have the capability to shoot back and you wouldn’t even have very many attempts to victimize them. It's the hard target as opposed to soft target reality.
For all practical purposes an armed society is a polite society.


Guns do not create politeness! If politeness were outlawed, then only outlaws would be polite!

Raptor wrote:
Quote:
Guns are a mixed bag.

Yes, I have a good assortment of them myself.

Any ordnance? You're not a real man, and not polite, unless you have ordnance.

Raptor wrote:
Quote:
If we had decent police forces very few of us would need guns.

It aint ever gonna happen. More cops and fewer guns in private hands sounds like symptoms of a police state, regardless of how they do things in other countries.
Better to have fewer but competent cops to maintain general order and a society of people that can take care of themselves.
When seconds count the police are only minutes away.

Absolutely! The sheer number of gun deaths in the USA proves that we are the politest and most orderly nation in the world! Plus, the envy of every other nation!



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14 Apr 2012, 10:03 am

The idea that widespread gun ownership will make everything nicer is naive. It didnt work in the inner city where criminals with guns kill other criminals with guns with impunity and not much fear.

And look at South Africa. The white population is quite well armed but armed criminals are still coming after them. One of the first things they ask for in a home invasion? Where are your guns? THey often go expecting to find them. And they go anyway. The truth is that most ordinary people can't deal with a calculated ambush, gun or not. The initiative is with the attacker.



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14 Apr 2012, 10:49 am

simon_says wrote:
The idea that widespread gun ownership will make everything nicer is naive. It didnt work in the inner city where criminals with guns kill other criminals with guns with impunity and not much fear.

And look at South Africa. The white population is quite well armed but armed criminals are still coming after them. One of the first things they ask for in a home invasion? Where are your guns? THey often go expecting to find them. And they go anyway. The truth is that most ordinary people can't deal with a calculated ambush, gun or not. The initiative is with the attacker.


LIBERAL!! ! :shameonyou:



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14 Apr 2012, 9:25 pm

Raptor wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:

Right on! The United Nations needs to get away from its socialists agenda of improving health, ending conflicts, and whatever New Order stuff they do, and just see to it that everyone gets a gun!



It would be a lot better if every American got a reasonable break, than if every American got a gun. Zimmerman had a gun. Now look where he is. If he had stayed in the car we would not even know his name. Guns have their uses. They are used in war, used in honest to goodness self and family defense and for hunting. They are also used to commit murder and theft. Guns are a mixed bag. If everyone had a gun life in the U.S. would be like life in the O.K. Coral. If we had decent police forces very few of us would need guns.

ruveyn


Quote:
They are also used to commit murder and theft.

Operative words here are used to meaning it takes a criminal hand and mind to do the actual deed. Forks and spoons do no create obesity.

Quote:
If everyone had a gun life in the U.S. would be like life in the O.K. Coral.

Then the would-be victim would have the capability to shoot back and you wouldn’t even have very many attempts to victimize them. It's the hard target as opposed to soft target reality.
For all practical purposes an armed society is a polite society.

Quote:
Guns are a mixed bag.

Yes, I have a good assortment of them myself.

Quote:
If we had decent police forces very few of us would need guns.

It aint ever gonna happen. More cops and fewer guns in private hands sounds like symptoms of a police state, regardless of how they do things in other countries.
Better to have fewer but competent cops to maintain general order and a society of people that can take care of themselves.
When seconds count the police are only minutes away.


NorahW wrote:
Eschew_Obfuscation wrote:

ANd while they might not be able to flatly say "people with AS must not speak to each other" cause of the first ammendment, they could indeed make it very difficult. And if enough things liek this happen and get publicized, then we could get branded a "dangerous" disorder wich would mean things would get very ugly very fast.

Since when is is bad to sell a gun to an aspie?! seriously.


**No one*** is saying that people with AS must not speak to each other!! It's not what the lawsuit appears to be about!! !! The reason they're suiing wrongplanet.net appears to be because they think the moderators should have been able to predict what he was going to do and notify the police, or something. And as they did try to call his parents, hopefully that part of the lawsuit will be thrown out.

Why are some people on here seeing this as a threat to people with AS talking to each other, or as some kind of NT thing to keep AS people away from each other?

It can be a threat to the idea of **any** kind of support board if moderators of said boards are going to be held liable if someone who had been posting commits a crime. But I don't see where **anyone** in the lawsuit is saying that "people with AS must not speak to each other" or must only speak to each other with NT supervision, or anything so silly. IMHO, this isn't about AS **at all**, but more about support boards in general and what moderators should be expected to do or not do if someone on the board is making threats. Again, I think that part of the suit should be thrown out and hopefully will be.

The parents are bereaved, they're grieving. (Sorry, I don't see them as selfish. Their familly members were deprived of their *lives*.) Because the person who did the killings is dead, there will be no trial. So they're doing a civil suit, which often happens in these cases where there is no conviction (whether because the murderer is dead, or because they were acquitted). O.J. Simpson is an example; he was acquitted, but Nicole Brown Simpson's family sued him for wrongful death.

As far as the gun thing: I don't think the lawsuit said that anyone with AS shouldn't have a gun; someone in that Trenchcoat Chronicles forum that someone linked to was saying that, probably because they think AS is a "disorder" and they don't really know what they're talking about. But if someone is threatening suicide or murder and under psychiatric care, if there is any way for that to be logged somewhere so that it would come up in a database, than that person should not be able to buy a gun, whether they are AS or NT.

I agree that hopefully people won't think this is about AS and that William Freund killed because he was an Aspie or that Aspies are killers. What really bothers me too is "was he really an Aspie?" Just because he thought he was, and was on an AS forum, doesn't make it so. He could have been a paranoid schizophrenic who thought everyone was against him and that he never had friends. There are probably a number of mental disorders that can cause people to think they have no friends and everyone hates them, and also these disorders can make the person seem weird to others and make it hard for the person to have friends once the disorder becomes worse. And even if he had AS, it wasn't the AS that caused him to kill, but his mental illess. So yeah, it is really disturbing that the AS angle is even being brought up at all.
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp349543. ... ht=#349543

http://www.wrongplanet.net/modules.php? ... highlight=

OMG!! ! More than metaphors involved???

Tadzio



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15 Apr 2012, 8:43 am

Paranoid schizophrenics, and others who think that they have no friends and that everyone hates them, may have a special need for firearms.



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15 Apr 2012, 12:29 pm

simon_says wrote:
The idea that widespread gun ownership will make everything nicer is naive. It didnt work in the inner city where criminals with guns kill other criminals with guns with impunity and not much fear.

And look at South Africa. The white population is quite well armed but armed criminals are still coming after them. One of the first things they ask for in a home invasion? Where are your guns? THey often go expecting to find them. And they go anyway. The truth is that most ordinary people can't deal with a calculated ambush, gun or not. The initiative is with the attacker.


Quote:
The idea that widespread gun ownership will make everything nicer is naive.

Yes, of course! Wouldn't it it wonderfull if only criminals and the goverment had guns? Then all of our problems would be solved!
:D

Quote:
It didnt work in the inner city where criminals with guns kill other criminals with guns with impunity and not much fear.

Criminals killing other criminals is a solution within the problem. But it seems that in your mind you'd rather save them and not worry too much about the innocent law abiding.....


Quote:
And look at South Africa.

This isn't SA we're talking about.

Quote:
The white population is quite well armed but armed criminals are still coming after them.

The "white population"? So you're saying all the white people are having to be armed because all the black people are criminals? Sure looks like that's what you're saying..... :shameonyou:

Quote:
One of the first things they ask for in a home invasion? Where are your guns?

The invadee let his guard down if it got that far.
Quote:
THey often go expecting to find them. And they go anyway.

"Hot burglaries" are considered excessively risky. They are more likely to attempt an invasion while no one is home.
And, no, I do not and will not feel responsible for what anyone does with guns stolen from me. If they are in my locked home or vehicle then it takes a criminal act to obtain them, let alone what they do with them next.

Quote:
The truth is that most ordinary people can't deal with a calculated ambush, gun or not. The initiative is with the attacker.

They have a better chance being armed than not. There are some car accidents where seatbelts won't do you a damn bit of good but they give you a better chance in most cases. Many times ambushes can be completely avoided by being alert. The pistol and the knowhow to use it is for when being alert in itself isn't good enough.

Bad as you claim things to be in South Africa with an armed populace, how bad would it be when only the crimials are armed?
Well, it sure as hell couldn't be any better....
You seem to think that laying down and being a victim is preferable to fighting back. I couldn't even come close to embracing that mindset. Hell, I'd rathter be dead. :x



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15 Apr 2012, 12:39 pm

People really do need to have alarm systems, barbed wire fences around the perimeter of their property, plus some land mines planted here and there. Also, you should start up a neighborhood bunker progam, where neighbors take turns manning the bunker.



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15 Apr 2012, 2:04 pm

Raptor wrote:
Yes, of course! Wouldn't it it wonderfull if only criminals and the goverment had guns? Then all of our problems would be solved!
:D


This is you having your truth issues again. Were you raised to lie? Is that what your parents were like? Nurture comes down to luck of the draw.

Quote:
Criminals killing other criminals is a solution within the problem. But it seems that in your mind you'd rather save them and not worry too much about the innocent law abiding.....


You missed the point. Not my problem.

Quote:
This isn't SA we're talking about.


It's what I'm talking about. It's an example to illustrate a point. If you can't understand it I'm sure someone can draw you some pictures with crayons.

Quote:
The "white population"? So you're saying all the white people are having to be armed because all the black people are criminals? Sure looks like that's what you're saying..... :shameonyou:


Some white farmers do believe they are being targeted because of historical problems in SA. But black on black crime is also bad. The reason I mentioned white is that they historically owned the guns and still have that legacy despite increasing controls. The criminals assume they are armed. I realize the subject likely confused you and you felt compelled to make some kind of racist comment. You go to what you know.

Quote:
The invadee let his guard down if it got that far.


The reality of violent action is different from your fantasies.

Quote:
And, no, I do not and will not feel responsible for what anyone does with guns stolen from me. If they are in my locked home or vehicle then it takes a criminal act to obtain them, let alone what they do with them next.


I would never consider you to be responsible for anything. That you don't wear a helmet as you amble about is admirable.

Quote:
They have a better chance being armed than not. There are some car accidents where seatbelts won't do you a damn bit of good but they give you a better chance in most cases. Many times ambushes can be completely avoided by being alert. The pistol and the knowhow to use it is for when being alert in itself isn't good enough.


So you say. You have to account for the gun being used against them, suicide, accidents, etc. I think most people are just gaining false confidence from it as the attacker does have an advantage. But I think it's also true that it may be an advantage to be a gun owner, in some situations, in a society where gun ownership is not universal. Once universal, or assumed to be, criminals will adapt and it will have less utility. People are smart.

Quote:
Bad as you claim things to be in South Africa with an armed populace, how bad would it be when only the crimials are armed?
Well, it sure as hell couldn't be any better....
You seem to think that laying down and being a victim is preferable to fighting back. I couldn't even come close to embracing that mindset. Hell, I'd rathter be dead. :x


My examples were meant to illustrate that "an armed society is a polite society" hasnt worked elsewhere. If a society is predisposed to high crime, you'll get high crime. But you seem predisposed to fail to understand anything. The Why will remain a mystery.

As for your belief that I'd lay down. lol. You obviously don't know me.