Samantha Brick on the Autism Spectrum?

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ouinon
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06 Apr 2012, 2:41 pm

nessa238 wrote:
I am fascinated that you felt the need to learn all the gestures/roleplay/mimicry - no way would I bother to do all that. I also thought that when a person was really pretty they didnt have to do much to fit in - just look pretty! Why would you need to act like a pretty girl if you already were one?

My experience of prettiness/beauty/being attractive is that although some people may be graceful/physically appealing or beautiful "naturally"/from childhood ( because of inner calm or a totally loving/accepting childhood environment or a peaceful/calm gastrointestinal tract :) ) most people can "create"/construct prettiness/attractiveness ... I discovered the truth of this when I went through an active and "out" radical feminist lesbian period in my late twenties:

I had a shock; I noticed that I no longer attracted male attention in bars and other public spaces. I had stopped "doing" those things which made me attractive to men, the sort of deference and smiles and wide-eyed attention, the sort of pretty coloured clothing and bits of jewellery which broadcast your willing participation in the heterosexual "dance", the way I walked, the way I held my mouth, lips more firmly together, the way that I no longer had waves of hair to flick and fuss with luxuriously, the sort of shoes/sandals I wore, for *really* walking in ... etc.

Being pretty/attractive ( to men ) is something you can "do". It might have been a lot harder if I had not been tall, fairly slim, even-featured, ( if very asymmetric in the face like Samantha :) ) , with thick wavy dark hair and beautiful skin ( :lol ), but what was striking is how I became invisible, to men, even with all those physical attributes, when I "decided" to be actively lesbian. ... I was no longer behaving the "right way" for an "attractive ( heterosexual ) woman" to behave.

With ref the effort involved: I was bullied, ( before I understood/learned how to wear the "right" length and shape of blue skirt, or shoes, etc at school, before I stopped reminding teachers to give us homework too, and before I stopped using lots of long words in normal ocnversation, etc ), which motivated me, but I was also fascinated by "appearance", by "image"/performance/persona, as well as by social success. I dreamed of it, when I wasn't reading, drawing, writing, and engaging in other interests of mine that is.
.



Last edited by ouinon on 06 Apr 2012, 2:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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06 Apr 2012, 2:41 pm

If I did all this thinking about it and she read it, she might have a laugh if she knew it was all created for the Daily Mail to entice readers.



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06 Apr 2012, 2:46 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Ugly persons could increase their attractiveness by wearing makeup, having well groomed appearance, wearing sexy clothing, and developing an overly warm, friendly persona thus they appear attractive to certain people.


I wasn't actually thinking of any of those things. And I wasn't necessarily thinking of ugly people. Some people have a special undefinable quality, a magnetism, charisma, charm or whatever you want to call it.



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06 Apr 2012, 2:47 pm

nemorosa wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Ugly persons could increase their attractiveness by wearing makeup, having well groomed appearance, wearing sexy clothing, and developing an overly warm, friendly persona thus they appear attractive to certain people.


I wasn't actually thinking of any of those things. And I wasn't necessarily thinking of ugly people. Some people have a special undefinable quality, a magnetism, charisma, charm or whatever you want to call it.

Most of those people are good looking, though.



ouinon
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06 Apr 2012, 2:52 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
If I did all this thinking about it and she read it, she might have a laugh if she knew it was all created for the Daily Mail to entice readers.

It's interesting that you think it was staged/that it is a set-up, that she is faking all this, because I think that's what a lot of NT women feel about her, that she is faking it, putting it on, trolling/flame-baiting for attention. Psychforum has her pegged as "narcissist of the week". But that's part of my point. I'm suggesting that the main reason why many women dislike her/distrust/reject her is that she is on the spectrum, and is at some level, to some extent calculating her behaviour/doing the incredibly exhausting balancing act of social-interaction with all its small signals etc, at the same time as actually trying to think, which is quite tricky. I can think fairly well in conversation only if I'm not under pressure to "design"/tailor/adapt my speech and facial expressions/body and gestures to fit in with the mood or "rhythm" of a group/the reactions of another person!
.



Last edited by ouinon on 06 Apr 2012, 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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06 Apr 2012, 2:58 pm

ouinon wrote:
...but what was striking is how I became invisible, to men, even with all those physical attributes, when I "decided" to be actively lesbian. ... I was no longer behaving the "right way" for an "attractive ( heterosexual ) woman" to behave.


Except to autistic men who have absolutely zero idea if a woman is interested or not, or actively seeking attention or not, or is available or not. That is why there are so many miserable men in the "Love and Dating" forum.

I spent over 20 years thinking that at one time there had bee a possibility with someone and that they had once been attracted to me based upon what I thought was a logical analysis of the situation. Half a lifetime after seeing her last some new information came to light that convinced me of my delusion.



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06 Apr 2012, 3:00 pm

ouinon wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
If I did all this thinking about it and she read it, she might have a laugh if she knew it was all created for the Daily Mail to entice readers.

It's interesting that you think it was staged/that it is a set-up, that she is faking all this, because I think that's what a lot of NT women feel about her, that she is faking it, putting it on, trolling/flame-baiting for attention. Psychforum has her pegged as "narcissist of the week". But that's part of my point. I'm suggesting that the main reason why women dislike her/distrust/reject her is that she is on the spectrum, and is at some level, to some extent calculating her behaviour/doing the incredibly exhausting balancing act of social-interaction with all its small signals etc, at the same time as actually trying to think, which is quite tricky. I can think fairly well in conversation only if I'm not under pressure to "design"/tailor/adapt my speech and facial expressions/body and gestures to fit in with the mood or "rhythm" of a group/the reactions of another person!
.

I just find it hard to believe because she seems so approachable and almost sweet. Who wouldn't like her? Her mannerisms remind me of Drew Barrymore and I never hear anything bad about Drew from anyone, male or female.



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06 Apr 2012, 3:05 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
nemorosa wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Ugly persons could increase their attractiveness by wearing makeup, having well groomed appearance, wearing sexy clothing, and developing an overly warm, friendly persona thus they appear attractive to certain people.


I wasn't actually thinking of any of those things. And I wasn't necessarily thinking of ugly people. Some people have a special undefinable quality, a magnetism, charisma, charm or whatever you want to call it.

Most of those people are good looking, though.


Maybe you haven't had the fortune to meet any, but there are people out there who look odd or unconventional without being ugly and whilst not classically beautiful still have a certain something about them.



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06 Apr 2012, 3:07 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I just find it hard to believe because she seems so approachable and almost sweet. Who wouldn't like her? Her mannerisms remind me of Drew Barrymore and I never hear anything bad about Drew from anyone, male or female.

Apparently she is puzzled too! :) But yes, the comments on the Daily Mail articles changed after they posted the TV interview video as if her mannerisms/body language was actually "ok", not "off", but perhaps she shines at interviews, I know I do, because it's a fairly structured social situation, Q & A, and conversation has to "stay on topic". I wonder what she's like at informal chit-chat.
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06 Apr 2012, 3:12 pm

ouinon wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
I am fascinated that you felt the need to learn all the gestures/roleplay/mimicry - no way would I bother to do all that. I also thought that when a person was really pretty they didnt have to do much to fit in - just look pretty! Why would you need to act like a pretty girl if you already were one?

My experience of prettiness/beauty/being attractive is that although some people may be "naturally"/from childhood ( because of inner calm or a totally loving/accepting childhood environment or a peaceful/calm gastrointestinal tract :) ) graceful, physically appealing or beautiful most people can "create"/construct prettiness/attractiveness ... I discovered the truth of this when I went through an active and "out" radical feminist lesbian period in my late twenties:

I had a shock; I noticed that I no longer attracted male attention in bars and other public spaces. I had stopped "doing" those things which made me attractive to men, the sort of deference and smiles and wide-eyed attention, the sort of pretty coloured clothing and bits of jewellery which broadcast your willing participation in the heterosexual "dance", the way I walked, the way I held my mouth, lips more firmly together, the way that I no longer had waves of hair to flick and fuss with luxuriously, the sort of shoes/sandals I wore, for *really* walking in ... etc.

Being pretty/attractive ( to men ) is something you can "do". It might have been a lot harder if I had not been tall, fairly slim, even-featured, ( if very asymmetric in the face like Samantha :) ) , with thick wavy dark hair and beautiful skin ( :lol ), but what was striking is how I became invisible, to men, even with all those physical attributes, when I "decided" to be actively lesbian. ... I was no longer behaving the "right way" for an "attractive ( heterosexual ) woman" to behave.

With ref the effort involved: I was bullied, ( before I understood/learned how to wear the "right" length and shape of blue skirt, or shoes, etc at school, before I stopped reminding teachers to give us homework too, and before I stopped using lots of long words in normal ocnversation, etc ), which motivated me, but I was also fascinated by "appearance", by "image"/performance/persona, as well as by social success. I dreamed of it, when I wasn't reading, drawing, writing, and engaging in other interests of mine that is.
.


Very interesting

I would have thought a pretty face would be seen as that whatever the context.

I realise it's possible to get more attention off men by dressing in a more feminine manner, especially if you show off cleavage etc. This doesn't appeal to me though as it's mainly them looking at body parts and not really to do with being found 'attractive' per se.

A lot of women seem to want men's eyes on them or why display cleavage?



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06 Apr 2012, 3:16 pm

nemorosa wrote:
ouinon wrote:
...but what was striking is how I became invisible, to men, even with all those physical attributes, when I "decided" to be actively lesbian. ... I was no longer behaving the "right way" for an "attractive ( heterosexual ) woman" to behave.


Except to autistic men who have absolutely zero idea if a woman is interested or not, or actively seeking attention or not, or is available or not. That is why there are so many miserable men in the "Love and Dating" forum.

I spent over 20 years thinking that at one time there had bee a possibility with someone and that they had once been attracted to me based upon what I thought was a logical analysis of the situation. Half a lifetime after seeing her last some new information came to light that convinced me of my delusion.


I find that all a bit disengenuous. If someone really fancies you they tend to find a way to let you know. All this 'Oh I think she really fancied me but I never realised it' a bit of a face-saving exercise. I've not been sure about people who've fancied me so how did we end up in bed together? Hmmm presumably because they made an actual move!



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06 Apr 2012, 3:22 pm

nessa238 wrote:
nemorosa wrote:
ouinon wrote:
...but what was striking is how I became invisible, to men, even with all those physical attributes, when I "decided" to be actively lesbian. ... I was no longer behaving the "right way" for an "attractive ( heterosexual ) woman" to behave.


Except to autistic men who have absolutely zero idea if a woman is interested or not, or actively seeking attention or not, or is available or not. That is why there are so many miserable men in the "Love and Dating" forum.

I spent over 20 years thinking that at one time there had bee a possibility with someone and that they had once been attracted to me based upon what I thought was a logical analysis of the situation. Half a lifetime after seeing her last some new information came to light that convinced me of my delusion.


I find that all a bit disengenuous. If someone really fancies you they tend to find a way to let you know. All this 'Oh I think she really fancied me but I never realised it' a bit of a face-saving exercise. I've not been sure about people who've fancied me so how did we end up in bed together? Hmmm presumably because they made an actual move!


Sorry, I've read that about four times now but I still can't work out what you are trying to say. :scratch:



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06 Apr 2012, 3:26 pm

nemorosa wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
nemorosa wrote:
ouinon wrote:
...but what was striking is how I became invisible, to men, even with all those physical attributes, when I "decided" to be actively lesbian. ... I was no longer behaving the "right way" for an "attractive ( heterosexual ) woman" to behave.


Except to autistic men who have absolutely zero idea if a woman is interested or not, or actively seeking attention or not, or is available or not. That is why there are so many miserable men in the "Love and Dating" forum.

I spent over 20 years thinking that at one time there had bee a possibility with someone and that they had once been attracted to me based upon what I thought was a logical analysis of the situation. Half a lifetime after seeing her last some new information came to light that convinced me of my delusion.


I find that all a bit disengenuous. If someone really fancies you they tend to find a way to let you know. All this 'Oh I think she really fancied me but I never realised it' a bit of a face-saving exercise. I've not been sure about people who've fancied me so how did we end up in bed together? Hmmm presumably because they made an actual move!


Sorry, I've read that about four times now but I still can't work out what you are trying to say. :scratch:


You thought someone was attracted to you. I was saying that if a person finds another one sufficiently attractive they often act on it ie you have sex. To say you think a person finds you attractive is no proof at all - having sex is the conclusive proof of the matter in my opinion.



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06 Apr 2012, 3:33 pm

nessa238 wrote:
You thought someone was attracted to you. I was saying that if a person finds another one sufficiently attractive they often act on it ie you have sex. To say you think a person finds you attractive is no proof at all - having sex is the conclusive proof of the matter in my opinion.


Well, indeed. That would be conclusive proof. Sadly fate works against us sometimes.

The whole point was to provide and example of how hopelessly inadequate to the task autistic males were when deciphering the messages. I laugh at myself for getting it so wrong for more than 20 years before the penny dropped.



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06 Apr 2012, 3:39 pm

nemorosa wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
You thought someone was attracted to you. I was saying that if a person finds another one sufficiently attractive they often act on it ie you have sex. To say you think a person finds you attractive is no proof at all - having sex is the conclusive proof of the matter in my opinion.


Well, indeed. That would be conclusive proof. Sadly fate works against us sometimes.

The whole point was to provide and example of how hopelessly inadequate to the task autistic males were when deciphering the messages. I laugh at myself for getting it so wrong for more than 20 years before the penny dropped.


I can understand as it's the men who are usually meant to make the move so it is different for women in that respect.

On the other hand I get the impression a lot of men will ahve sex with a woman they don't fancy - I mean what's the cut-off point before a man says no?? Although I would have thought they couldn't get a 'you know what' without fancying the person - is that right? I find what males like and dont like very confusing.



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06 Apr 2012, 3:42 pm

Just read an article from today at Salon.com about Samantha Brick, in which the author, Mary E Williams, quotes, and agrees with, a comment in Jezebel magazine suggesting that the person who was really set-up here was Samantha, and that the Daily Mail knew what would happen.

This sounds like more evidence for my theory that Samantha is on the autism spectrum; naivety! She wrote and posted her article in good faith. It was the newspaper that knew it would attract the mobs. :( ...

In fact both the article at Salon and the piece it refers to at Jezebel call it "bullying".

Salon wrote:
In Jezebel, Lindy West astutely called the Daily Mail’s decision to publish Brick’s piece “a master stroke of carefully orchestrated misogyny” that “feels uncomfortably close to bullying.”

Here is the Salon article: http://www.salon.com/2012/04/06/samanth ... singleton/
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