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Photoguruchris
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07 Apr 2012, 10:01 pm

As we look back in history from the world to the U.S. we see much bloodshed; but also a lot of people fighting for they're rights. Civil Rights movements occur when a certain group of people who are oppressed in a given society decides to start a movement when they get fed up with the way things are in that society. It happened with the Africans, who even though they got their supposed freedom they didn't get seen as equals in society and it happened with women who were seen as objects till the women's rights movements. Now I ask every one of you as people living with mental disabilities, are we truly seen as equals in today's society? Or are we seen as second class citizens? Do you and will you agree and back a civil rights movement for people with mental disabilities? If so what steps need to be taken to start something like this in the United States?



KenG
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10 Apr 2012, 1:27 pm

Photoguruchris wrote:
Do you and will you agree and back a civil rights movement for people with mental disabilities?
Are you asking if we support the Neurodiversity movement?
I, for one, do support the Neurodiversity movement.
Photoguruchris wrote:
If so what steps need to be taken to start something like this in the United States?
Are you asking what steps need to be taken to start something like the Autistic Self Advocacy Network in the US?
The answer to your question is here:
http://autisticadvocacy.org/


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BuyerBeware
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11 Apr 2012, 7:00 am

No. I won't.

You all call this negativism-- and maybe it is. It's definitely not positivism. I'd rather not believe that it's realism, but the decade-plus of experience slapping me in the face suggests very strongly that it is.

These are the facts:

I picked the neurodiversity banner up in 1998 (when the ink was barely dry on the DSM-IVR, before the AQ and IEPs for HFA kids; before you could say "Asperger's syndrome" and expect ANY recognition, negative or otherwise; before Jenny McCarthy and Autism Speaks and all this awareness schtick).

You've read that ASAN article entitled "Killing Words"?? I've got something else to think about-- some of my own early attempts at self-advocacy probably helped bring things like AutSpeaks into being. Imagine how stupid I feel-- I've taken myself from invisible weirdo to stereotyped pariah.

I've lived openly, hoping to change perceptions by example. I've paid the price. The only changes I've seen are that people around me concentrate on my failures, and I see a really nasty backlash forming in society.

But hey-- at least I tried, right?? I picked up the banner and I carried it-- mostly alone-- until late in 2010 or early in 2011.

That was a brave thing to do. It's hard to be a pioneer. I should be proud.

I'm not. Actually, I'm sorry. Embarrassed. Ashamed. I was a young, stupid, idealistic Aspie and I did a stupid, idealistic Aspie thing.

But most of all, what I am, is tired. I'm tired of being laughed at. I'm tired of having people threaten to destroy my family. I'm tired of being scared. I'm tired of wondering if I'm really just as good as your average NT, or if I'm just fooling myself.

I'm tired of playing a "mentally ill" Martin Luther King Jr.

My own voice saying, "I'm just as good as you are; I'm a person too!" has grown to sound whiny and strident, like that of an angry four-year-old, to my own ears.

I'm tired of the smiling faces and blank eyes of mental-health professionals. As much as I enjoyed my brief stay, I don't want to live on a psychiatric unit, and I don't like Risperdal.

I wish all the luck in the world to the next generation of banner-carriers. I think neurodiversity is an idea whose time has not yet come; I think y'all are storming Heaven to take your reward before God's appointed time, and I think you'll pay dearly.

I also hope I'm wrong. I hope I'm bitter, I hope I'm cynical, I hope I'm wrong. Take a blessing with you, from a burned-out old soldier whose fighting days are done to a bunch of young ones-- May all y'all stand in the sunshine. May you see the fruits of your labors while you still have a taste to eat them. May you learn the taste of victory and validation-- and may it taste a hell of a lot better for you than it has for me.

Fight bravely. No-- fight INTELLIGENTLY. May you find your way home with your bodies, lives, and minds basically intact. Be careful. God speed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRnUBuB68sY

Fill your young heads up with that for your patriotic ticker-tape parade. You make my heart swell; I am very proud of you.

I've also seen the elephant, and I'm tired. More than pride, what I feel for you is concern. Worry. Fear? Yes, I think so.

In the end, at the finish of a long day, I want what anyone wants-- to put up my feet, have a quiet dinner and a safe place to make my bed.

I want to go home, lock my door, and watch my children grow in peace and safety.

I have learned the hard way that I can only do that if I make the decision to just... shut... up.


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Last edited by BuyerBeware on 13 Apr 2012, 10:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

androbot2084
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12 Apr 2012, 10:07 am

True neurodiversity can only be found in autism.



peterd
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15 Apr 2012, 5:09 am

Nash, true neurodiversity will only occur when NTs no longer find themselves suffering an urgent need to be elsewhere when an autistic is on the stage.



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15 Apr 2012, 5:50 am

androbot2084 wrote:
True neurodiversity can only be found in autism.


how so, we're not the only one's who function differently from neurotypicals you know.


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androbot2084
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15 Apr 2012, 7:53 am

A neurotypical will never embrace autism. Neurotypical doctors will always see autism as a disease. Only when the neurotypical becomes more like us will they realize our supremacy.



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15 Apr 2012, 12:02 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
A neurotypical will never embrace autism. Neurotypical doctors will always see autism as a disease. Only when the neurotypical becomes more like us will they realize our supremacy.


What supremacy? we're certainly not below neurotypicals, but we're not superior to them.


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15 Apr 2012, 12:09 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
A neurotypical will never embrace autism. Neurotypical doctors will always see autism as a disease. Only when the neurotypical becomes more like us will they realize our supremacy.


1. I am not better than an NT because I'm autistic. I'm autistic, the're not. That's all. I am not lesser. I am not greater. I am just autistic.

2. I do know neurotypicals who embrace autism.

3. I do know neurotypical doctors who don't view autism as something that must be removed.



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15 Apr 2012, 9:15 pm

Is neurodiversity ONLY found in Autism? IS IT ?

As neuroscience advances and more psychiatric conditions are linked to neurology; isn't IT possible for other groups to come forward and claim neurodivesity, too?

For example, IF a difference in neurological brain pathways were found ONLY in people with manic-depression, could these folks claim neuro-diversity ? What IF a particular group within maniac-depression were found to have heightened creativity and insight ?

Maybe, just maybe, people who belonged in this particular group would NOT want a cure.

Maybe, they would see their maniac-depression as a part of themselves because it has a neurological basis.

Maybe, they would want to form their identity around their diagnosis and call themselves bi-polites.

Maybe, they would want to have control over their neurology, the research done and communities formed.

Theoretically, as neuroscience advances, this could have been the neuro-divesity issue of the millennium; psychiatric conditions with a proven neurological basis fighting for neuro-diversity.

But, you see, people need a diagnostic name both specific and catchy to rally around. It's extremely difficult to rally around a severity level.

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15 Apr 2012, 9:17 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd3rA89VhtA[/youtube]

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15 Apr 2012, 9:56 pm

I have begun to embrace the neuro-diversity movement and I truly believe it is the next big diversity movement. That is,
I believe that those of us with Autism will be the next group that will be helped by our society's new-found love of diversity. As of now, being Autistic usually doesn't help but some universities have started neuro-diversity initiatives so it looks promising. The idea is similar to giving racial preference to minorities. The preferences given to racial minorities are not supposed to give such individuals an unfair advantage, they are supposed to counter the unfair disadvantages that they face. As people with Autism, we have distinct disadvantages that aren't necessarily fair. Neuro-diversity initiatives will help us overcome those

So hold on comrades, our day is coming. For now, though, we are definitely at a disadvantage when it comes to applying to graduate schools and most jobs. It's not that employers seek to discriminate against us. But since we are unable to behave exactly as expected during a job interview, we are more likely to get that dreaded letter: "We think you are an awesome candidate with an awesome resume and awesome interviewing skills. Unfortunately..." I see job interviews as artificially constructed barriers that are only effective to any degree with NTs. After all, the institution of job interviewing is made by NTs for NTs. This is frustrating to Aspies that are good at doing the actual job, but not so good at doing the thing that is supposed to predict how well you do the job.



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16 Apr 2012, 10:20 am

That's right, when people think that autism is a disease then you never get the job offer and you always get the bad performance evaluation and end up getting fired. But if people think that autistics are indeed the superhumans then what basis would our oppression be based on?



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16 Apr 2012, 6:31 pm

American wrote:
I have begun to embrace the neuro-diversity movement and I truly believe it is the next big diversity movement. That is,
I believe that those of us with Autism will be the next group that will be helped by our society's new-found love of diversity. As of now, being Autistic usually doesn't help but some universities have started neuro-diversity initiatives so it looks promising. The idea is similar to giving racial preference to minorities. The preferences given to racial minorities are not supposed to give such individuals an unfair advantage, they are supposed to counter the unfair disadvantages that they face. As people with Autism, we have distinct disadvantages that aren't necessarily fair. Neuro-diversity initiatives will help us overcome those

So hold on comrades, our day is coming. For now, though, we are definitely at a disadvantage when it comes to applying to graduate schools and most jobs. It's not that employers seek to discriminate against us. But since we are unable to behave exactly as expected during a job interview, we are more likely to get that dreaded letter: "We think you are an awesome candidate with an awesome resume and awesome interviewing skills. Unfortunately..." I see job interviews as artificially constructed barriers that are only effective to any degree with NTs. After all, the institution of job interviewing is made by NTs for NTs. This is frustrating to Aspies that are good at doing the actual job, but not so good at doing the thing that is supposed to predict how well you do the job.


Why don't you aspies stop meddling into the affairs of autism in general? Keep the positive talk to yourself, don't interchange the words aspie and autistic, and try not to weaken the resolve to deal with the real problems that many other autistics have. Limit your points to aspies only.



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16 Apr 2012, 8:30 pm

dalurker wrote:
American wrote:
I have begun to embrace the neuro-diversity movement and I truly believe it is the next big diversity movement. That is,
I believe that those of us with Autism will be the next group that will be helped by our society's new-found love of diversity. As of now, being Autistic usually doesn't help but some universities have started neuro-diversity initiatives so it looks promising. The idea is similar to giving racial preference to minorities. The preferences given to racial minorities are not supposed to give such individuals an unfair advantage, they are supposed to counter the unfair disadvantages that they face. As people with Autism, we have distinct disadvantages that aren't necessarily fair. Neuro-diversity initiatives will help us overcome those

So hold on comrades, our day is coming. For now, though, we are definitely at a disadvantage when it comes to applying to graduate schools and most jobs. It's not that employers seek to discriminate against us. But since we are unable to behave exactly as expected during a job interview, we are more likely to get that dreaded letter: "We think you are an awesome candidate with an awesome resume and awesome interviewing skills. Unfortunately..." I see job interviews as artificially constructed barriers that are only effective to any degree with NTs. After all, the institution of job interviewing is made by NTs for NTs. This is frustrating to Aspies that are good at doing the actual job, but not so good at doing the thing that is supposed to predict how well you do the job.


Why don't you aspies stop meddling into the affairs of autism in general? Keep the positive talk to yourself, don't interchange the words aspie and autistic, and try not to weaken the resolve to deal with the real problems that many other autistics have. Limit your points to aspies only.


dalurker, you have an excellent point especially for future debates.

Does a person with Aspergers have a right to interfere with the affairs of those on an AUTISM spectrum disorder ?

I don't think people fully understand the social and political implications of abolishing a well established 'neuro-diverse self identifier' such as Aspergers.

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16 Apr 2012, 10:19 pm

dalurker wrote:
Why don't you aspies stop meddling into the affairs of autism in general? Keep the positive talk to yourself, don't interchange the words aspie and autistic, and try not to weaken the resolve to deal with the real problems that many other autistics have. Limit your points to aspies only.


First of all:

P1: All Aspies are Autistic persons
P2: All persons identical to me are Aspies
C: All persons identical to me are Autistic persons

Second, I have no clue what you are talking about. How am I meddling in the affairs of "Autism in general"? What do you mean by "positive talk"? And how should I go about trying "not to weaken the resolve to deal with the real problems that many other Autistic have"?

I don't know what your problem is with what I said. You have to explain it better. I really am curious to know what you mean.

Look, this may be the wrong planet, but we should at least all be on the same wrong planet...