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smothered
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23 May 2012, 9:04 am

Never voted before, but I'd probably vote for the Greens.

Both the Liberal and Labor Parties are a bunch of racist, homophobic, loony neocons, who waste money on pork-barreling while selling off national assets. The only difference is that the Labor Party is funded by unions, and the Liberal Party is funded by corporations.



ruveyn
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23 May 2012, 10:29 am

mikecartwright wrote:
I support the Socialist Party.


Churchill once said that if a young man is not a socialist by the time he is twenty he has no heart and if he is still a socialist when he is forty, he has no sense.

ruveyn



AstroGeek
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23 May 2012, 5:12 pm

ruveyn wrote:
mikecartwright wrote:
I support the Socialist Party.


Churchill once said that if a young man is not a socialist by the time he is twenty he has no heart and if he is still a socialist when he is forty, he has no sense.

ruveyn

That's misattributed to him actually. And it has also been used with the term "liberal." It is believed to have first been said by Frenchman with reference to the revolution. Except in this case "socialist" was replaced with "supports the Republic."



Aelfwine
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24 May 2012, 6:07 am

Younger people are in general more liberal or left-aligned than older persons.
Does this mean that I become conservative when I'm very old?



ruveyn
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24 May 2012, 6:12 am

Aelfwine wrote:
Younger people are in general more liberal or left-aligned than older persons.
Does this mean that I become conservative when I'm very old?


If you have any sense later on and have learned what life teaches you, you will drift to the right a bit.

ruveyn



edgewaters
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24 May 2012, 6:25 am

Lots of young people are now right wing - its not right or left that attracts the young, its impractical idealism and utopian dreams. Lately, the left has been vacating this territory and the right has been eager to fill the void.

People don't move right as they get older - they move to the centre from wherever it is they started (or at least, they do if they mature politically). 60s youth radicals moved right because they started on the left. The new breed of young utopian idealists will likewise move left, because they mostly start on the right.

Of course there are also those who start centrist and just stay that way.



Aelfwine
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24 May 2012, 6:34 am

In the last few months I moved more and more left and liberal because I'm more and more dissapointed of the society.



ruveyn
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24 May 2012, 9:12 am

Aelfwine wrote:
In the last few months I moved more and more left and liberal because I'm more and more dissapointed of the society.


The mob is an ass.

ruveyn



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24 May 2012, 10:55 am

edgewaters wrote:
People don't move right as they get older - they move to the centre from wherever it is they started (or at least, they do if they mature politically). 60s youth radicals moved right because they started on the left. The new breed of young utopian idealists will likewise move left, because they mostly start on the right.


Except its wrong, north america has been headed right for the last 30 years and isn't slowing down. Stephen harper was just elected and most canadians have no idea of his secret agenda and stealth privatization of healthcare.

We can look at the behaviour of the conservatives themselves to see how awful things are. The moderates are actually the problem. The REAL leftwing, I mean hard leftists - people willing to unionize and threaten overthrow of capitalism, are what kept the oligarchies of the world in check. Now that everyone has become 'moderate' (whatever that means). Society has been pushed right with propaganda campaigns going back more then 30 years. While 'liberal media' seems 'left' to idiots, it's actually flaming hard right. What is reported in the news and what actually happens with the power brokers is radically different and the public by and large is too dumb to organize against it and get out the corporate delusion.

People can think they are 'moderate' all they want but they don't make any of the decisions, they elect representatives that do exactly what corporations and big business want them to do. People are deluded to thinking elections 'make change' because they aren't too bright on the whole.

There is no real leftwing in north america anymore. They are all reformists/progressives = useless. They believe in elections rather then organizing against the corporate structure of society.

Most people on WP are deeply uninformed anyway, including the educated because they have no idea what science has discovered about the human brain over the last 40 years or so.

Link
http://bit.ly/dYaWUc



ruveyn
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24 May 2012, 10:59 am

ZakFiend wrote:
edgewaters wrote:
People don't move right as they get older - they move to the centre from wherever it is they started (or at least, they do if they mature politically). 60s youth radicals moved right because they started on the left. The new breed of young utopian idealists will likewise move left, because they mostly start on the right.


Except its wrong, north america has been headed right for the last 30 years and isn't slowing down. Stephen harper was just elected and most canadians have no idea of his secret agenda and stealth privatization of healthcare.

We can look at the behaviour of the conservatives themselves to see how awful things are. The moderates are actually the problem. The REAL leftwing, I mean hard leftists - people willing to unionize and threaten overthrow of capitalism, are what kept the oligarchies of the world in check. Now that everyone has become 'moderate' (whatever that means). Society has been pushed right with propaganda campaigns going back more then 30 years. While 'liberal media' seems 'left' to idiots, it's actually flaming hard right. What is reported in the news and what actually happens with the power brokers is radically different and the public by and large is too dumb to organize against it and get out the corporate delusion.

People can think they are 'moderate' all they want but they don't make any of the decisions, they elect representatives that do exactly what corporations and big business want them to do. People are deluded to thinking elections 'make change' because they aren't too bright on the whole.

There is no real leftwing in north america anymore. They are all reformists/progressives = useless. They believe in elections rather then organizing against the corporate structure of society.

Most people on WP are deeply uninformed anyway, including the educated because they have no idea what science has discovered about the human brain over the last 40 years or so.

Link
http://bit.ly/dYaWUc


Socialism has lost. The only people who have not caught on are the North Koreans and the Cubans.

Socialism fails. Always. Do you have any idea why? I do. Deep down people are egotistical and selfish. It is as simple as that.

ruveyn



Oldout
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24 May 2012, 11:08 am

ruveyn -- Would that then make drug lords and dealers good idols for human progress ?



ruveyn
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24 May 2012, 11:47 am

Oldout wrote:
ruveyn -- Would that then make drug lords and dealers good idols for human progress ?



No. Because they initiate force on others. One can be egotistical and selfish and non-violent.

Government follows the example of violent criminals. That is why most governments are tyrannies.

ruveyn



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24 May 2012, 11:48 am

ruveyn wrote:
ZakFiend wrote:
edgewaters wrote:
People don't move right as they get older - they move to the centre from wherever it is they started (or at least, they do if they mature politically). 60s youth radicals moved right because they started on the left. The new breed of young utopian idealists will likewise move left, because they mostly start on the right.


Except its wrong, north america has been headed right for the last 30 years and isn't slowing down. Stephen harper was just elected and most canadians have no idea of his secret agenda and stealth privatization of healthcare.

We can look at the behaviour of the conservatives themselves to see how awful things are. The moderates are actually the problem. The REAL leftwing, I mean hard leftists - people willing to unionize and threaten overthrow of capitalism, are what kept the oligarchies of the world in check. Now that everyone has become 'moderate' (whatever that means). Society has been pushed right with propaganda campaigns going back more then 30 years. While 'liberal media' seems 'left' to idiots, it's actually flaming hard right. What is reported in the news and what actually happens with the power brokers is radically different and the public by and large is too dumb to organize against it and get out the corporate delusion.

People can think they are 'moderate' all they want but they don't make any of the decisions, they elect representatives that do exactly what corporations and big business want them to do. People are deluded to thinking elections 'make change' because they aren't too bright on the whole.

There is no real leftwing in north america anymore. They are all reformists/progressives = useless. They believe in elections rather then organizing against the corporate structure of society.

Most people on WP are deeply uninformed anyway, including the educated because they have no idea what science has discovered about the human brain over the last 40 years or so.

Link
http://bit.ly/dYaWUc


Socialism has lost. The only people who have not caught on are the North Koreans and the Cubans.

Socialism fails. Always. Do you have any idea why? I do. Deep down people are egotistical and selfish. It is as simple as that.

ruveyn


Socialistic countries like Sweden are doing pretty well.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



ruveyn
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24 May 2012, 11:50 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Socialistic countries like Sweden are doing pretty well.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Mixed economy. Private property is alive and well in Sweden. Swedes actually -own- their Volvos.

ruveyn



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24 May 2012, 11:54 am

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Socialistic countries like Sweden are doing pretty well.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Mixed economy. Private property is alive and well in Sweden. Swedes actually -own- their Volvos.

ruveyn


Granted.
Just the same, it goes to show you that "mixed economies" are more successful than purely communistic or purely capitalistic systems.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



ruveyn
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24 May 2012, 12:02 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Granted.
Just the same, it goes to show you that "mixed economies" are more successful than purely communistic or purely capitalistic systems.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


The mixed economy model is the winner of the Darwinian Struggle. But at its heart is private property ownership and self ownership. Totalitarian Socialism where the Collective is All was, is and will be a dismal failure.

ruveyn