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Buger
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15 Apr 2012, 6:19 pm

I would like someone to explain to me what specific items did you feel that no one taught you. What are the items that the nurotypical individuals take for granted. What do you feel is the best method of approach to teach those with ASD the vast variety of unwritten rules?

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trappedinhell
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15 Apr 2012, 7:14 pm

For me, it's the fact that the rules of work are so strict. Strictly NT, that is. I grew up being told that anything was possible, but they mean anything WITHIN A VERY NARROW RANGE and the most important part of getting a job is being like everyone else.

I don't know if this is obvious to others, or if they don't notice it. but look at any successful business: they will be very slightly different from existing businesses, but only slightly. Like Google - a better search engine. Or that company that Facebook just bought for a billion dollars: it's only a tiny bit different from other companies.

Or look at successful people in general: they connect with people, they network. Or look at what counts as success: getting in a good university then a good employer: it's all so rigid, like it's on rails. Never question and you will go far, grasshopper. I have noticed that the most successful middle managers and salesmen never question anything: their minds just don't work that way. The most successful upper managers do question things, but only in very tiny ways. Nobody says "maybe the whole economy is wrong" or "maybe this industry should not exist" or "maybe this university is one big fraud." Or they don't act on that belief. If they do, you never hear from them again.

I wish somebody had impressed upon me the fact that 99.99% of money is obtained by fitting in. Not by having skills, that is secondary. Fitting in is what matters. The odds of you making money if you don't fit in are vanishingly small. Which is obvious when you think about it: money is a means of communicating decisions. If you don't fit into the other person's way of thinking then they won't give you money.

The rules are iron rails that everybody runs along. That is what I wish I had been told.


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pensieve
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15 Apr 2012, 7:20 pm

That social rules actually existed and what they were. I'm still learning more each day, it's like taking part in a treasure hunt that lasts a lifetime. I pick up little rules here and there but sometimes I can go months without learning anything new.


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FMX
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16 Apr 2012, 3:48 am

Have you looked at the Social Rule Book thread? There are heaps in there, all unwritten - until now.

For myself, I wish people told me as a child that:

1) People often don't say what they mean and don't mean what they say.
1a) [corollary to 1] Even though you say what you mean and mean what you say people will often assume you don't. Even explicitly stating otherwise usually won't help.
2) When someone says something that makes no sense they may be joking - even though it makes no sense as a joke, either, and would be completely unfunny.
3) Some people just like talking for the sake of it and the impression (illusion?) that others listen to them. Sometimes the content of the conversation is of no importance to anyone. Correcting details will be perceived as nitpicking and won't go over well in most cases.



Moridin8
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16 Apr 2012, 4:45 am

trappedinhell wrote:
For me, it's the fact that the rules of work are so strict. Strictly NT, that is. I grew up being told that anything was possible, but they mean anything WITHIN A VERY NARROW RANGE and the most important part of getting a job is being like everyone else.

...

Or look at successful people in general: they connect with people, they network. Or look at what counts as success: getting in a good university then a good employer: it's all so rigid, like it's on rails. Never question and you will go far, grasshopper. I have noticed that the most successful middle managers and salesmen never question anything: their minds just don't work that way. The most successful upper managers do question things, but only in very tiny ways. Nobody says "maybe the whole economy is wrong" or "maybe this industry should not exist" or "maybe this university is one big fraud." Or they don't act on that belief. If they do, you never hear from them again.

I wish somebody had impressed upon me the fact that 99.99% of money is obtained by fitting in. Not by having skills, that is secondary. Fitting in is what matters. The odds of you making money if you don't fit in are vanishingly small. Which is obvious when you think about it: money is a means of communicating decisions. If you don't fit into the other person's way of thinking then they won't give you money.

The rules are iron rails that everybody runs along. That is what I wish I had been told.


Here here. I feel your pain acutely... for example, I was recently 'released' from my contract for 'not fitting in, being too academic, over engineering software and (the best one) not being able to relate with others effectively'.


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darkfuji
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16 Apr 2012, 4:53 am

trappedinhell wrote:
For me, it's the fact that the rules of work are so strict. Strictly NT, that is. I grew up being told that anything was possible, but they mean anything WITHIN A VERY NARROW RANGE and the most important part of getting a job is being like everyone else.

I don't know if this is obvious to others, or if they don't notice it. but look at any successful business: they will be very slightly different from existing businesses, but only slightly. Like Google - a better search engine. Or that company that Facebook just bought for a billion dollars: it's only a tiny bit different from other companies.

Or look at successful people in general: they connect with people, they network. Or look at what counts as success: getting in a good university then a good employer: it's all so rigid, like it's on rails. Never question and you will go far, grasshopper. I have noticed that the most successful middle managers and salesmen never question anything: their minds just don't work that way. The most successful upper managers do question things, but only in very tiny ways. Nobody says "maybe the whole economy is wrong" or "maybe this industry should not exist" or "maybe this university is one big fraud." Or they don't act on that belief. If they do, you never hear from them again.

I wish somebody had impressed upon me the fact that 99.99% of money is obtained by fitting in. Not by having skills, that is secondary. Fitting in is what matters. The odds of you making money if you don't fit in are vanishingly small. Which is obvious when you think about it: money is a means of communicating decisions. If you don't fit into the other person's way of thinking then they won't give you money.

The rules are iron rails that everybody runs along. That is what I wish I had been told.

99% of money may be made by fitting in but the deserved money that people worked for and that is gotten from hard work and intelligence can still count for 1%



Stargazer43
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16 Apr 2012, 7:15 am

Well I remember kind of a funny one from when I was young. I was much worse socially then than I am now, and someone from my school came up to me and said "hello!". I never knew how to respond to that, or even if a response was expected, so I just looked over at them and nodded my head. Then they said "You know, you're supposed to say 'hello' back when someone greets you!" It was like a light-bulb moment for me lol, ever since then I have known to say hello back lol.



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16 Apr 2012, 7:56 pm

Anything related to relationships, including initiating one. I can make friends, no problem. But as soon as it involves any romantic connotation, I tend to get away from it.

Relationships often weird me out. I can understand them in a general sense, but I can't make sense of them for myself.

I actually know a lot of rules about relationships, but I don't know when to apply them. Also, even if I know how to do it, it is not guaranteed that it will work for me. I am very scared of things like that.

I also don't feel like joking about emotions. You know, pretend-flirting, that kind of stuff. Why would anyone do that? I guess other people are generally more at ease.


Another thing is that I am totally resistant when it comes to popular stuff. Or fashion. How much I hate fashion.

I have to stress that it's not the clothes that piss me off, but the way you're supposed to like them.

Which colours match, blah blah blah. If I think something looks good, that's what I need to know. I don't need a colour coding system imposed on me.

I don't believe that you can be objective about colours. Why then do people have favourite colours if it's already determined which colours you should like and which colours you should combine.


Popular things...

I just have to name-drop "The Artist" and "Titanic 3D". I guess everyone knows what I am hinting at.

I think films are very personal things, even if a big industry is behind them. It's really funny. Films are produced to be spread on the market via merchandise and advertisement. "Harry Potter", "Twilight" and "The Hunger Games" are really good examples for that.

I really love "Harry Potter", but when it became popular I was really annoyed. Harry Potter was exploited by the masses. Just to be consumed. Like toys. As soon as the hype is over, it's thrown away. Only then the actual fans remain.


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Moriath
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16 Apr 2012, 9:16 pm

That it is ok to question authority. After years of school and parents and syncing with what they wat. Now I learn and find it hard that bosses and authority figures need to be questioned when you are asked to do things. Not just blindly obeyed.



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16 Apr 2012, 9:39 pm

Silly double post



Last edited by Moriath on 17 Apr 2012, 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

MrPickles
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17 Apr 2012, 12:20 am

What would be a great help here would be a search able knowledge base - Building a Wiki type knowledge base of what an Asperger's personality needs to know when interacting with NTs could be a great help.



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11 Mar 2013, 6:16 pm

That who needs who more is the most influential factor in any interaction among 2 humans.

Corollary: that you're expected to suck up above and piss down below.

That there exists such a thing as manipulation and that it is massive - namely that most of the time people don't express what's inside them (thoughts, feelings, emotions) but what will get them the reaction that suits their interests.

Corollary: that criticism is a common way of getting you to be/do what suits them rather than a genuine caring for you and for the world we live in that makes them tell you how to improve yourself.


That you can't have a roof and food if you don't suck up to the powerful ones at work.

That at work when the bosses are watching you have to pretend that you're happy and enjoying every minute of it. Even if you know that the bosses know that you couldn't possibly be happy working 12 hours a day for peanuts and under constant emotional abuse.


If someone had told me these pillars of society as a child, all my life would've been different and a million times better.


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11 Mar 2013, 7:10 pm

A sense of humor helps you feel better. Learn to laugh at your own mistakes before you laugh at the mistakes of others.

Basing real-life expectations on what you see in movies, on TV, and in video games will bring disappointment. There are no action heroes, no supermen, and no magical beings standing by to bail you out of trouble.

Be nice to those less fortunate than yourself; you never know what tomorrow brings and whose help you might need, or if that homeless person may actually be a wealthy eccentric.

Determining what is appropriate in a relationship from romance novels, soap operas, and even pornography will bring both disappointment and frustration, and may earn you charges of harassment, assault, and even jail time.

Flipping burgers, stocking shelves, busing tables or waitressing are not beneath your dignity. Most people started out doing basic jobs, and it’s up to you to make a success out of it.

Life is not fair, so get used to it. The world owes you anything. If you want to get somewhere, you are the only one who can make it happen. Nobody will sit up and take notice if you don’t do something with your life first. That’s why good grades, good credit, good references, and a good reputation are important - they’re a record of the kind of person you are, and an indication of the kind of person you are likely to be.

Persistence will eventually get you almost anything. Never give up. Keep your goals and dreams alive. Quitters never win, and winners never quit.

Schools may have done away with winners and losers in their drive for encouraging self-esteem, but life has not. In some schools they have abolished failing grades and they’ll give you as many times as you want to get the right answer. This doesn’t bear the slightest resemblance to ANYTHING in real life.

One broken promise cancels out thousands of promises you’ve kept. Don’t make promises that you know you can’t keep, and keep the ones you do make.

One thing that the world can't stand more than a loser is a loser who whines about losing. Whiners never win, and winners never whine.

The world won’t care about your self-esteem. The world will expect you to accomplish something BEFORE you feel good about yourself. You’ll most likely be rejected repeatedly, but don’t give up. Take the critique onboard, change where it’s needed and for the rest, grow a thick skin.

To be loved, you must first be loveable. No one likes a bitter, jealous, spiteful person. Nobody likes whiners and complainers, either. Here’s a key: if saying something bad won’t change things for the better, then don’t say it.

To gain the interest of others, be interesting. Learn a craft: drawing, painting, and pottery aren’t just things to keep kids busy; people who can express themselves artistically are interesting, and this includes actors, musicians and writers, too. Then perfect your craft. The only way to be successful is to perfect whatever craft you choose, whether it is being a musician, doctor, chef, electrician etc. Be exceptionally good at what you do as it will increase your chances of success.

You will NOT become wealthy and drive an expensive car right out of school, and your chances are less if you drop out. You won’t be a vice-president with an expense account until you earn both. You’ll have to work very hard to earn these things, except if maybe your parents are rich and have a lot of contacts, but if that’s not the case you’ll have to earn your way just like the rest of us.


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11 Mar 2013, 8:09 pm

How to enter conversation or start it, why a joke is funny, that people judge your worth based on the kind of job you have, and those hidden rules about body language.



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17 Mar 2013, 9:25 am

Moondust wrote:
[b]That who needs who more is the most influential factor in any interaction among 2 humans.


This is actually a very important one and I think many NTs fail to understand it, too. I was fortunate enough to learn it early on.

Moondust wrote:
Corollary: that you're expected to suck up above and piss down below.


Now that I don't agree with. Maybe in some cases, but it's an unfair generalisation to call it a corollary of the above.

It's really not so much about "giving crap" and "taking crap". It's about entitlement - understanding what you are and are not entitled to. Eg. some customers walk into a shop thinking that "the customer is always right" and they're disappointed when the staff don't seem to agree. This wouldn't happen if they understood the reality that the shop has a much bigger choice of customers than they have of shops (generally). It doesn't mean the customer should "suck up" to the shop owner, just that they should know they're not entitled to anything from them and act accordingly.