Adults with Aspergers Seem 'Normal' to Me

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nessa238
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29 Apr 2012, 1:58 pm

Tuttle wrote:

nessa238 wrote:

You dont need a diagnosis to develop coping strategies - you say 'what is my problem and how can I try and deal with it?'

You're right, not all coping strategies require diagnosis.

What you're wrong about is that some help does require a diagnosis.

I knew about my Asperger's, worked on coping skills with on and off identification with a label for 9 years before I was diagnosed. I was told at age 13 by a professional that I probably had Asperger's, yet she'd not be capable of diagnosing me. Even before that point I'd been developing coping strategies, though that had been a turning point (for other reasons, like swapping me into a school where I dealt with far less bullying).

However those coping skills, all that work, wasn't enough for the situation I ended up in in the past few years. In the past few years things have gotten to the point where I needed professional therapy. We tried me with a few different counselors, and none of them worked at all, one even made things worse because of the assumptions she made about me (which would be true for most NTs). I needed my diagnosis, because my diagnosis is what finally allowed me to see a therapist who can actually help.

I'm still in really bad shape now, and in some ways in worse shape now than when I started this process, but this is finally giving me a method of improvement where I'm actually seeing improvement. Seeing someone who knows about the autistic spectrum, which required a diagnosis, has helped me work on things I need to, and while I don't have many solutions yet, that was professional help was necessary for me to identify some of the internal problems. One of the most recent things I've figured out is through conversations on here, and then work with my therapist, is how the guilt from being dependent on people affects me.

That's one of the things you seem to be overlooking. I don't want to be getting the help I am; I don't want to need the help I'm getting from people. I actually have huge problems with guilt because of needing the help you're accusing me of taking advantage of people to get despite not needing.

There are other things I've gotten that are allowing me to work on things in ways I couldn't have before my diagnosis. The insurance industry has put me in the situation of now that I've gotten a diagnosis they will cover Occupational Therapy for me, which is something that actually could help my severe sensory issues. Reduced fare public transit is the only thing that lets me get to some places that I go in order to work on issues (both with professionals and not), because I'm not employed, despite that being something I'm working on and trying for. My diagnosis has completely changed how my dad interacts with me, into a way that is far more functional and allows me to work on issues around him (because before that point he had been projecting his mental health problems onto me and claiming I was dealing with things I wasn't, and should be medicated for things that I've been evaluated for and don't have.)

You're right, you can absolutely develop coping strategies without a diagnosis, and everyone should do so. But the diagnosis can allow someone far more coping strategies as well as professional help that is really a game changer when it comes to us working on the situations we're in.

I see what you mean

"I'm still in really bad shape now, and in some ways in worse shape now than when I started this process"

Can you be more specific as to why you feel 'in worse shape' than before you started the process?

Tuttle
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29 Apr 2012, 2:03 pm

nessa238 wrote:

"I'm still in really bad shape now, and in some ways in worse shape now than when I started this process"

Can you be more specific as to why you feel 'in worse shape' than before you started the process?

They're not to do with the process, just to do with what life has given me.

There are things going on around me that are very much not good and that are affecting me a lot, and along with that someone betrayed me badly and can't understand this and can't understand how its affecting me.

It's just that I can't say everything is better because of going through this, I can just say that there is improvement and potential for improvement and that the ability to improve has been solidly increasing, while improving itself hasn't necessary been because of other issues.

RLgnome
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29 Apr 2012, 2:55 pm

nessa238 wrote:

Quote of the day:-

"With things like ADHD, a pill will resolve most of the problems in a huge majority of cases."

:roll:

Well, in a *majority* (not all) of cases, medication will resolve *most* (not all) problems. I am very much aware that severe ADHD can't be medicated away, but for every such case I hear about, I hear about several others where Ritalin (or similar) resolved most of the problems.

I also notice you ignored the rest of my arguments, and singled out a quote that was meant as a *comparison* to autism (and what resources it takes to manage it). That's a commonly used technique to avoid replying to arguments, without admitting you don't really have anything more to say.

nessa238
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29 Apr 2012, 3:07 pm

RLgnome wrote:

nessa238 wrote:

Quote of the day:-

"With things like ADHD, a pill will resolve most of the problems in a huge majority of cases."

:roll:

You evidently know me so well!

What did I have for dinner this evening btw? Surely you know that too

I was pointing out the ADHD quote because of the sheer irony about autistic issues being gone into to such a level of pedantic detail as to blow a person's mind and yet for ADHD it's just 'Take a pill!'

The contrast is hilarious!

People don't reply to whole posts of mine, so there's no incentive for me to pedantically reply to every part of any of your posts, just to please you!

I'm having to reply to a lot more posts on this thread than the average poster anyway, so it's more time consuming, as in case you hadn't noticed I've been keeping this thread going!

My intellectual input has stimulated a lot of debate and the moment I lose interest in it it will sink like a stone I can assure you!

nessa238
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29 Apr 2012, 3:09 pm

Tuttle wrote:

nessa238 wrote:

Can you quantify what the exact benefits of the therapy are then?

btbnnyr
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29 Apr 2012, 3:21 pm

For me, the diagnosis helped me figure out the sources of my problems, so I could take actions to function bester.

For eggsample, I used to have daily shutdowns after an hour or two spent in lab, and I never knew what was the problem eggsacly, only that I felt discombobulated and seemed to lose more and more of my cognitive functions as the day went on. One of the functions that I lost quickly was the ability to communicate coherently with other people in lab. It takes a lot of mental resources for me to speak my thoughts, so when my brain is not functioning well, communication is the first function that goes.

Anyway, I never figured out what was my problem with the shutdowns until I got diagnosed and researched autism and related to other autistic people eggsperiencing the same things. I had always hated the brightness and flickering and humming of fluorescent lights, but prior to getting diagnosed, I had never made the connection between sensory hypersensitivity to brightness, flicker, and background noise and mental fatigue caused by overstimulation. In my case, these sensory stimuli caused frequent shutdowns that really limited my functioning. So when I traced back the problem to its source was when I could finally take action to counteract it. For me, counteracting the problem means limiting my exposure to fluorescent lights, other overhead lights, and background noise, such as by planning my shopping trips so I spend as little time in the store as possible, and taking precautions against the stimuli, such as by wearing a baseball cap and earplugs to block out the stimuli. I also learned by accident that doing some repetitive activities when I feel overloaded helps to reset my brain back to a functional state, so I play Bejeweled Blitz whenever I feel a shutdown coming on.

In terms of social functioning, I never made the connection between facial eggspressions and states of mind of people before my diagnosis. For me, part of autism was not picking up on really simple social stuff like this on my own. Now that I know this important fact, I can actually pay more attention to what facial eggspressions mean instead of thinking that they are just parts of people's faces moving while I watched and thought nothing of them.

These coping mechanisms I developed after my diagnosis, which allowed me to understand the sources of various problems that I had.

Talk therapy with an understanding therapist who accepts that I am autistic and does not try to make me non-autistic has also helped me a lot lot lot, because I learned to verbalize my thoughts not in words, so I could finally communicate more spontaneously from my real-time thoughts instead of relying on short scripted responses.

RLgnome
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29 Apr 2012, 3:23 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:

Have you read the board lately?

Several posters are going after DXes for a "sense of belonging" or to "explain why they don't fit in." I keep seeing posts popping up that are describing garden-variety introversion, but it's being regarded as "autism." I think that's a bad thing.

"Several posters" doesn't equal "many". I didn't say they don't exist, I said they weren't "many". As a parallel; While most MMO boards are full of people complaining, threatening to sue the developer for minor (and sometimes major or intermediate) problems, the majority of the player base might be happy with the game. A forum is to a game what a hospital is to a city. Here, the situation is somewhat different, but of course (most of) the few that are of that attitude in the general population, will be drawn toward this kind of forum. That doesn't mean they're many in the general population.

Quote:

This is the attitude I'm specifically addressing. "Autism" is not a "personality type."

To that I agree.

Quote:

An unfortunate reality of life, but DXes of actual disorders should be reserved for people who are specifically experiencing impairments.

If you need psych help to get your social skills straight, you are specifically experiencing impairments.

Quote:

I don't see the value in DXing someone with a mental disorder because they "might" experience impairments in the future and because "medical care is expensive." It makes about as much sense as diagnosing someone with cancer who hasn't been shown to have cancer, but who MIGHT get cancer and who MIGHT need treatment.

Bad comparison. The ones I'm speaking about DO have AS, but they're not currently in need of support. If you don't have cancer, you don't have cancer. A better (but not perfect) comparison would be being HIV positive. In most cases, people with the virus don't need antiretroviral medication until after several years. Yet, if they test positively for HIV, they don't postpone the diagnosis until meds are needed.

And as I've repeated twice, I AGREE that an assessment should be postponed if someone isn't in need of support at the present time. But if an assessment *already is under way*, for some reason or another (trigger happy general practitioner or school, non-strategic thinking by the patient, workplace insists), the specialist shouldn't conclude that the person *does not have* AS due to the lack of need for support. That could, and most probably will, make things hard for the patient if that need arises later. However, it could be the specialist would be wise to advise the person to cancel the assessment for now. What I'm talking about, is not that, it's concluding the patient *doesn't have* a genetic disorder when he or she actually has it.

Quote:

Technically, everyone MIGHT experience mental dysfunction in the future; however, everyone probably shouldn't be DXed with a mental disorder as a preventative measure.

Most mental disorders aren't congenital and permanent. ASDs are. If you have an ASD, you have it, even if you don't need support. If you don't need support, you don't need the diagnosis, but that doesn't mean you don't have the condition.

houla
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29 Apr 2012, 3:26 pm

I am a middle aged woman with high functioning autism. I was diagnosed in the 1960s, well before Asperger Syndrome had hit the mainstream psychiatric scene. There was during my younger years concern about a possible future of institutions ect, because that was the normal course at that time. I was also diagnosed at such a young age I really didn't have much say in receiving the diagnosis. I am not really interested in trying to figure out who should have a diagnosis or not, but I would like to address a couple of points from the perspective of a bonafide, with all the bells and whistles, diagnosed non-aspergerian autistic.

nessa238 wrote:

Quote:

I'd say it's a perfectly intelligent observation that most people on this forum would tend to have a milder form of autism - they are seeking social interaction for a start; people with the more severe types of autism don't tend to seek or want any form of social interaction - that's their essential problem! So from the very fact of being here and actively wanting to communicate with others, a person has clearly demonstrated less severity to their autism in my opinion.

I dislike interaction intensely. I mostly find it invasive; uncomfortable; even painful, though with years of work under my belt it is no longer unbearable. What's more I don't find people particularly interesting. However, I am not likely to seek it out and will often go a long way to avoid it. Interaction in my life is limited to one friend who I occasionally chat with about shared interests. People that I work with around shared work. My doctor who I've seen for years and has helped me a great deal to gain greater functionality. And, my husband. However, my husband understands and shares my need for solitude, so while our marriage may be unusual, it works. For me this forum doesn't represent human interaction at all. It's just a bunch of words that keep appearing on the pages creating a lot of commentary about things that sometimes relate to me. I find some of it interesting, and sometimes I comment, but none of it is any more real to me than a book that is constantly writing itself.

The other thing I would like to comment on is my diagnosis. As I mentioned I didn't have much choice in it. However, it has been extremely beneficial in obtaining really useful help. Without the help I've received over the years I would not have the skills to maintain a job or a relationship. I hope that I will always be able to access this help so that I can continue to negotiate the world around me.

Anyway, carry on. I find all this fascinating

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RLgnome
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29 Apr 2012, 3:37 pm

nessa238 wrote:

Logical argument is futile on this forum

Two minutes ago we had 'if you have no actual support needs there doesn't seem any point in getting a diganosis' - now we have 'get a diagnosis anyway just to be on the safe side'

Read my post again.

Since you probably won't, I'll explain one more time, in a simpler manner:

1. There isn't a point in getting a diagnosis if you don't need support. It is best avoided.
2. I didn't say one should "get a diagnosis anyway just to be on the safe side".
3. I did, however, say the specialist, if an assessment for some reason *already is underway*, should not conclude the person *doesn't have AS* if the tests indicate otherwise.
4. Doing that would make things harder for the patient when need for support arises, and hence not help the patient.
5. I've repeated repeatedly that the best thing would be to avoid that situation, but reality is it won't always be avoided.
6. Therefore, a rigid restriction of diagnosis to someone who currently needs support would harm patients.

(7. Also, the definition of "support" may not always be clear - some specialists would limit this to public support, which in my book is wrong.)

Tuttle
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29 Apr 2012, 3:46 pm

nessa238 wrote:

Can you quantify what the exact benefits of the therapy are then?

Quantify, not really. I'd not be able to do that well whether or not I was dealing with other problems. I can say that its noticeable. I can say that therapy that doesn't take into account autism is negative - I get worse, no therapy I get better at a slow rate, and with therapy that does take autism into account I get better at a much faster rate than no therapy.

However, I can tell you that it is

a) helping with things which are associated with my autism
and
b) helping with things that anyone could have to deal with, except doing it in a way that takes into account my autism.

The second part is often overlooked and is very important.

Some things its helping with:
-Helping me determine what my emotions are.
-Helping me learn how to discuss emotions.
-Helping me reduce the frequency and intensity of meltdowns.
-Identifying what the problems I'm having are (like I said, I didn't realize before meeting with her on Friday that I have major problems with guilt (even though I have meltdowns triggered from this guilt most days a week))
-Identifying what things I have difficulty with that can be controlled that I'd not think of
-Helping me get the other help than I need (i.e. help me with getting vocational rehab set up to be helpful, helping me find an OT, etc)
-Helping me combine the different parts of a potential solution into a potential solution. I might know that I'm helped by propioceptive input and that I need to help others, but I'd not necessarily think of the fact that when I'm starting to get upset people should try to ask me to help them with tasks that explicitly give me that propiceptive input.

I can't give numbers for therapy vs no therapy, but I can say that with the therapy, I've about cut the number of meltdowns I have in an average week in half in the last six months.

RLgnome
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29 Apr 2012, 4:07 pm

nessa238 wrote:

You evidently know me so well!

No, but I'm starting to know your argumentation style all too well.

Quote:

What did I have for dinner this evening btw? Surely you know that too

No, but I know what you've been writing in this thread lately.

Quote:

I was pointing out the ADHD quote because of the sheer irony about autistic issues being gone into to such a level of pedantic detail as to blow a person's mind and yet for ADHD it's just 'Take a pill!'

I didn't say that, I said a pill will resolve *most* (not all) problems in a *majority* (not all) of cases. That ADHD *usually* (not every time) costs the school and society less resources than autism, is a fact. More specialists in different fields are usually required with autism. Being moderate to severe, diagnosed as an adult, I see three different specialists (some regularly, some when needed), in addition to a counselor at university.

Quote:

The contrast is hilarious!

No, really, it isn't.

Quote:

People don't reply to whole posts of mine, so there's no incentive for me to pedantically reply to every part of any of your posts, just to please you!

I've replied to whole posts of yours, while you've mostly replied to insignificant details in mine. Or misrepresented what I'm saying. If you did that only to me, I'd consider if I'm being unclear. Since you do that to everyone, I'll just conclude you're either a troll or not out for a real debate.

I don't have a particular need to be pleased, by the way. I actually like a good debate. This isn't one, however.

Quote:

I'm having to reply to a lot more posts on this thread than the average poster anyway, so it's more time consuming, as in case you hadn't noticed I've been keeping this thread going!

My intellectual input has stimulated a lot of debate and the moment I lose interest in it it will sink like a stone I can assure you!

If you can't reply to people's arguments, and have to resort to the techniques you have been using lately, I'd recommend either ending the debate or decide not to answer everything. It's intellectually unsatisfactory to participate in a debate where the opponent doesn't bother to give honest argumentation.

Nickay12
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29 Apr 2012, 9:19 pm

*exhales* Autistics.. ey? Every time I come to Wrong Planet I need a drink to calm down afterwards. Lol.
If you read through 27 pages and can't bring yourself to stop at the 2nd or 3rd page (even though you can feel yourself getting ridiculously angry) then I think you have a legitimate problem.

*raises glass* to Aspergers!! !

XFilesGeek
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29 Apr 2012, 9:56 pm

RLgnome wrote:

I am specifically addressing the people who are pursuing DXes on the basis of "self-discovery." I can't speak to the "general population."

Quote:

If you need psych help to get your social skills straight, you are specifically experiencing impairments.

Uh-huh.......

Quote:

If you have the HIV virus, you have the HIV virus.

AS is diagnoses via observed behaviors, not blood tests. One of the criteria of those "observed behaviors" is that one is experiencing impairments. If you are not experiencing impairments, you don't meet the criteria.

An even better comparison would be claiming that someone is HIV positive because they MIGHT get the virus in the future despite the fact they don't currently have the virus.

Quote:

And as I've repeated twice, I AGREE that an assessment should be postponed if someone isn't in need of support at the present time. But if an assessment *already is under way*, for some reason or another (trigger happy general practitioner or school, non-strategic thinking by the patient, workplace insists), the specialist shouldn't conclude that the person *does not have* AS due to the lack of need for support. That could, and most probably will, make things hard for the patient if that need arises later. However, it could be the specialist would be wise to advise the person to cancel the assessment for now. What I'm talking about, is not that, it's concluding the patient *doesn't have* a genetic disorder when he or she actually has it.

They can simply conclude they MIGHT have AS/ASD without handing out a DX.

"Diagnosis pending" is simple enough to place in a patient's file and won't "harm" their future endeavors. Not giving a DX is not the same as declaring someone "doesn't have AS."

Quote:

And I'll wait until we identify objective bio-markers that clearly show someone has an ASD before I agree with that conclusion.

Until we do, we're just making educated guesses.

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30 Apr 2012, 1:29 am

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