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Philosoph92
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27 Apr 2012, 11:25 pm

I want to begin by saying that I appreciate any and all comments, especially since I tend to rant and over-explain in my writing.

Last year, I graduated from high school and have been taking online classes from a local community college since the start of fall 2011. My problem is such: I take classes on subjects that interest me, the class destroys my interest in what I enjoy doing, and I end dissatisfied, often with a bad grade because I was so bored and irritated that I couldn't do the work. My major interest is writing and I'd like to pursue a career in the writing field. What I continue to think is is: you cannot teach someone creative writing, no one who wants to hire a writer is going to expect that writer to be "well-rounded", and teachers in writing who are not writers should not teach a class on writing.

Every class seems to become dull, I continue to suffer them for the age old reason of "this is how you will succeed by getting that degree" Last I checked, Edgar Allen Poe and Agatha Christie were not English majors, (not that I am comparing myself to them). The second interest I have is in Philosophy, and I can study and write about it on my own time, it is far more enjoyable that way.

With the difficulties I'll be facing with my Asperger's and depression, is college worth the effort with those subjects in mind? Or should my time perhaps be spent by writing freely and/or seeking employment in that field?



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27 Apr 2012, 11:46 pm

It depends on the kind of work you want to do...creative writing? Study anything, or don't, work at anything, and hone your skills independantly, and with selected critquers/input. The input is needed for perspective, that's all, as you need to know you're communicating effectively...but in your own style, with originality, preferably, yes.
Finding your own way into the industry is fine.

But you say, "..no one who wants to hire a writer.. " so I'm thinking you want to do journalism, or technical writing, or..? For which you'll need to study, yes.
If you want to teach creative writing one day, again, study. But any field can do, as long as you've been published.


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Dantac
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28 Apr 2012, 11:38 am

Philosoph92 wrote:
I want to begin by saying that I appreciate any and all comments, especially since I tend to rant and over-explain in my writing.

Last year, I graduated from high school and have been taking online classes from a local community college since the start of fall 2011. My problem is such: I take classes on subjects that interest me, the class destroys my interest in what I enjoy doing, and I end dissatisfied, often with a bad grade because I was so bored and irritated that I couldn't do the work. My major interest is writing and I'd like to pursue a career in the writing field. What I continue to think is is: you cannot teach someone creative writing, no one who wants to hire a writer is going to expect that writer to be "well-rounded", and teachers in writing who are not writers should not teach a class on writing.

Every class seems to become dull, I continue to suffer them for the age old reason of "this is how you will succeed by getting that degree" Last I checked, Edgar Allen Poe and Agatha Christie were not English majors, (not that I am comparing myself to them). The second interest I have is in Philosophy, and I can study and write about it on my own time, it is far more enjoyable that way.

With the difficulties I'll be facing with my Asperger's and depression, is college worth the effort with those subjects in mind? Or should my time perhaps be spent by writing freely and/or seeking employment in that field?


You're right. There is no such job as 'writer' . Its like a musician that goes to college to become a rock star... its not going to happen unless you are really good at it and have the luck of being 'discovered' or you have friends in high places that mobilize the marketing machine to peddle the mediocre crap that is being produced.

If your passion is writing then I'd suggest you get a degree in a field that will net you employment in something that involves writing. Journalism is an excellent example.

While you take the Journalism degree you can take either a 2nd major in creative writing or a minor in creative writing..if writing stories is your thing that is. That will give you the 'college education' needed for writing such stories.

I would also suggest you look into taking psychology and anthropology electives to broaden your understanding of how different people and cultures view the world & expose you to their stories and though patterns. A writer that can cater to a wide audience or take elements from other cultures and merge them with the elements of the target audience culture can be a big hit.



EstherJ
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29 Apr 2012, 1:17 am

Are you saying you would rather learn it yourself than have it fed to you? Does having it fed to you make the appeal go away?

Just trying to make sure I get what you're saying. I feel the same way.



Philosoph92
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05 May 2012, 12:43 am

First, thank you for the input, it is helping.

ThinkTrees, I am trying to choose which area of writing I'd be suited for, and what matters to me is my voice, as long as that came through, I'd be alright. And I'm in the midwest, the area I'm in seems to have almost no desire to hire writers, or are poor in communicating it because maybe.. they don't have writers to say they need writers? I'm not too sure on that one.

Dantac, I've given plenty of thought to getting said degrees, and would pursue them, but it comes back to what my mind can handle, and I am more capable than able to take on the gen. ed. classes that they would make me take to get what I wanted. If there was some sort apprenticeship path I could choose for writing, I probably would, but I have never heard of such a thing happening. I have taken philosophy and psychology electives, and I did well with those, dispite losing interest for a good portion of the class content.

EstherJ,To some extent, yes, I would rather learn it myself. I don't enjoy looking at grades and numbers to tell me how well I'm doing. Some professors say they'll give you feedback online and such, but they end up not doing that at all, and it is very annoying. I'd much rather have someone say it was awful than posting a D or F, or someone say it's great because blah and blah instead of posting an A or B. But then that would be work they'd have to do, and it's not like they're getting paid for it... >.>.

I just don't know what to do, either go freelance now and write for anyone who needs it and build some sort of credibility and reputation, or invest time and money into college classes so maybe I get some credibility... The latter sounds worse than the former, and I'd probably just as intelligent as I am now, and have the same style and voice even after those courses, so it would just be for the piece of paper, and the bill for it. It seems like I'm fighting either what I want v. what I may need. Repeating myself here, but I really don't know what to do.



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05 May 2012, 11:40 am

Philosoph92 wrote:
Dantac, I've given plenty of thought to getting said degrees, and would pursue them, but it comes back to what my mind can handle, and I am more capable than able to take on the gen. ed. classes that they would make me take to get what I wanted. If there was some sort apprenticeship path I could choose for writing, I probably would, but I have never heard of such a thing happening. I have taken philosophy and psychology electives, and I did well with those, dispite losing interest for a good portion of the class content.


Gen Ed classes are the hardest of the lot actually. Once you start taking classes for the major that you want/need it becomes much easier.

There is no apprenticeship for writing but there are specific courses and specializations in writing degrees that are almost the same. I don't know how it is in your state/university but here the people that take writing BA's can focus on creative writing, technical writing, script writing or journalism writing.

http://www.catalog.sdes.ucf.edu/academi ... ion_BA.pdf
http://www.catalog.sdes.ucf.edu/academi ... ure_BA.pdf
http://www.catalog.sdes.ucf.edu/academi ... ing_BA.pdf
http://www.catalog.sdes.ucf.edu/academi ... ism_BA.pdf


In any of those specializations most students take a semester or two of internships that are 'apprenticeships' for all purposes.


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I just don't know what to do, either go freelance now and write for anyone who needs it and build some sort of credibility and reputation, or invest time and money into college classes so maybe I get some credibility... The latter sounds worse than the former, and I'd probably just as intelligent as I am now, and have the same style and voice even after those courses, so it would just be for the piece of paper, and the bill for it. It seems like I'm fighting either what I want v. what I may need. Repeating myself here, but I really don't know what to do.


The point is that a degree does not mean you will be a writer or land a job writing (unless its technical writing or journalism you want to get into..for those you do need the degree). Almost all writers that 'made it' don't have writing degrees... and many of those never completed college either. Its all about how you write and getting published.

So the only thing I can say is get a degree that will give you the best chance of getting a job as priority and then work on your writing...be it on your own or as a 2nd major or as a minor.



Sezzy
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05 May 2012, 1:59 pm

Hi my blogger name for WP is Sezzy I attend a community college,though I do not do do any online courses I attend the college as a non-matriculated student for part time. My college is a diversied college with many culture backgrounds. I'm going for my certificate in sped Ed. I think in my option there should be more help in accommodations for people on the spectrum.

Sezzy



Philosoph92
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20 May 2012, 11:23 pm

Thanks again for all of the suggestions and advice, it won't be an easy decision for the ultimate major. But I will be pursuing one. I guess in this world, I need all of the resume padding I can get...

I'm thinking of actually going to a university after next year. Time to focus on classes, for sure. Wish me luck, I'm going to really need it.



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21 May 2012, 1:49 pm

I like you have had a struggle in college as well. My passion, my love, my strength comes into writing. Originally I went to major in journalism, but I was subjected and oppressed. My own voice was drowned out by "this is the way it has to be and you're doing it wrong". I'll explain it, in our journalism class we learned to write "Objectively v.s. Subjectively".

Now I take that quite literally. Objective is straight facts. During our midterm, we had to write a fake article with the headline: Hotel Burns. Taking what I learned literally I wrote objective first, that's anything that didn't have to do with people and who they were and how they felt. Sure the facts are that fireman were injured, but at the same time the fireman are not the headline and are not what the article are talking about.

Well on the midterm I mentioned the facts about the hotel first, then the fireman. I got a "C" because I was suppose to mention the fireman first. Isn't another part of journalism and writing how each individual writes? Isn't another part of writing that everyone has their own style? When did writing in this culture become something with one way to do something?

It's almost like writing is still in the area or field where you cannot create Pollocks with words, you can only create Tiziano Vecelli.



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21 May 2012, 2:13 pm

Pandora_Box wrote:
I like you have had a struggle in college as well. My passion, my love, my strength comes into writing. Originally I went to major in journalism, but I was subjected and oppressed. My own voice was drowned out by "this is the way it has to be and you're doing it wrong". I'll explain it, in our journalism class we learned to write "Objectively v.s. Subjectively".

Now I take that quite literally. Objective is straight facts. During our midterm, we had to write a fake article with the headline: Hotel Burns. Taking what I learned literally I wrote objective first, that's anything that didn't have to do with people and who they were and how they felt. Sure the facts are that fireman were injured, but at the same time the fireman are not the headline and are not what the article are talking about.

Well on the midterm I mentioned the facts about the hotel first, then the fireman. I got a "C" because I was suppose to mention the fireman first. Isn't another part of journalism and writing how each individual writes? Isn't another part of writing that everyone has their own style? When did writing in this culture become something with one way to do something?

It's almost like writing is still in the area or field where you cannot create Pollocks with words, you can only create Tiziano Vecelli.


The reason the fireman who was injured goes first, "If it bleeds, it leads". It's very much like the scene in Full Metal Jacket when they are talking about the battle, and the commander wants to know where the "Weenie" is, EG, the casualty.



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21 May 2012, 3:18 pm

rabbittss wrote:
The reason the fireman who was injured goes first, "If it bleeds, it leads". It's very much like the scene in Full Metal Jacket when they are talking about the battle, and the commander wants to know where the "Weenie" is, EG, the casualty.


But that is subjective. Fact they were injured, but anything else you write about them is subjective. Look at any news article, "Brave fireman" "Heroes" anything that has to do with that kind of job is subjective because people add in a subjective context to it. That has to deal with people's feelings, and has to deal with subjective views.

I write objective first. Subjective second.



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21 May 2012, 3:26 pm

I understand that, but you don't have to add any sort of adjective to fireman. You simply state, categorically "Firefighter injured in hotel fire! pg.4". It's factual and objective. People will automatically infer from that that the fireman was brave, because culturally we are brought up to view Firefighters as Brave as default.

"Infant killed in Gang Shootout"

People automatically, and rightly, become incensed, upset or indignant when they read that as there is a LOT of inferred information which the casual reader will take from that. No need for you to insert your own feelings into it, allow the reader to do that for themselves.

It's all mainly to do with word and paragraph order..



Philosoph92
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23 May 2012, 12:16 am

Whether objective or subjective information goes first in an article is merely an example, I believe. Pandora's point is still solid: there seems to be no place for the author's personal creative style in popular for-profit journalism, unless the writer owns the paper.

I agree that the structure that is expected of writers from their newspaper employers is constricting for any sort of voice from the writer, but that is the point, isn't it? It's their structure and if you expect payment, they expect a product that they'll want to publish, and most of the time, it will have to follow their rules. I'm sure one of those rules will be: no "profanity." And that is already quite limiting, but they will add more to that list. It is about what you're willing to sacrifice from your craft to get and keep the job, and we all need money.

Nothing says that you can't just use the job writing for them just to get work published. When you have written a substantial amount, you have some reputation, and when you want to write some independant pieces; you will have better luck finding a publisher who will want to even see your work.

The field of journalism isn't perfect for a writer's craft, but it is better than being an unemployed, unpublished, unknown writer. Have you seen what gets people's attention in literature: Harry Potter and Twilight? Most intellectual pieces won't sell nearly as much as that stuff. I'm not sure if journalism's even the field I'll ultimately go with, but it is a tolerable option.

I could list the complaints I have with our culture here all day, if I desired, but I do not. Speaking realistically, our culture morphs slowly, perhaps one day we will see un-constrained writing, but until then, we shall have to deal with what opportunity lies before us. So, with that in mind, what do you suggest I do instead of journalism, if it's not so tolerable?



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23 May 2012, 3:21 am

Philosoph92 wrote:
I could list the complaints I have with our culture here all day, if I desired, but I do not. Speaking realistically, our culture morphs slowly, perhaps one day we will see un-constrained writing, but until then, we shall have to deal with what opportunity lies before us. So, with that in mind, what do you suggest I do instead of journalism, if it's not so tolerable?


Literature Arts Associates.

Or when I am doing my college English Communications Degree.

Basically you take English Children Storytelling and some other interesting sort of historical artsy pieces of classes for English, alongside English writing and what not.



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29 May 2012, 9:17 pm

Tech writing is an excellent field for finding employment... what you might consider would be pursuing a degree in tech writing and using that field as a day job to support your desire to write in other genres, until you are more established with an agent/publisher down the road. Best of luck to you.



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08 Jun 2012, 10:28 pm

writingresearcher wrote:
Tech writing is an excellent field for finding employment... what you might consider would be pursuing a degree in tech writing and using that field as a day job to support your desire to write in other genres, until you are more established with an agent/publisher down the road. Best of luck to you.


My old job we begged them to hire a tech writter; but they couldn't afford it.

They are paid EXTREMELY well and are VERY in demand.