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ArrantPariah
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03 May 2012, 3:12 pm

One advantage to official enrollment is free medical care from the Indian Health Service.

I wonder if some tribes will allow non-members to enroll, through adoption or other means? As one may become a naturalized US citizen? Perhaps they could think of selling enrollments, for people who want the free medical care.



taxman
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03 May 2012, 3:24 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
One advantage to official enrollment is free medical care from the Indian Health Service.

I wonder if some tribes will allow non-members to enroll, through adoption or other means? As one may become a naturalized US citizen? Perhaps they could think of selling enrollments, for people who want the free medical care.


Yes and no on the healthcare....if you are living in your traditional tribal area, then yes, if you move elsewhere it's harder to get. I live outside my tribal area these days and I believe there is some group out there that provides referrals for Indians living outside their area, but the resources available for me are much less than the local Indian people living here.

I'm pretty confident that there is no tribe that would permit non-Indian people to join. Actually, my tribe recently voted to expel the descendants of former slaves who were owned by the Cherokee and had been counted as Cherokee when the rolls were created. It's been a huge controversy, and I think the US gov't has pressured them to re-admit them [by withholding federal funds for housing and other programs.]

Actually I guess those are cases where they did allow non-Indians to join, I think a lot of the Southern tribes had their slaves included after the Civil War, and the Seminole tribe was known for sheltering escaped slaves in Florida and adopted many of them.



ArrantPariah
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03 May 2012, 3:27 pm

The Crow Tribe adopted President Obama.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008 ... americans/



SpiritBlooms
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03 May 2012, 3:30 pm

She grew up in a working class neighborhood in Oklahoma. Her father was a janitor who died of a heart attack when she was still in school. I don't think you want to really attack her on where she comes from. She's as working class as anyone, and has shown that most of the working class individuals declaring bankruptcy did so due to genuine family crises, breakups and medical bills that depleted their savings. She's on the side of working people, not big banks and big corporations, and I think this little smear campaign is despicable.

But go ahead, she'll still win.



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03 May 2012, 3:35 pm

I know that tribes do award "honorary" membership but I don't know if those people could actually be considered tribal members if they did somehow want to use tribal services.

It's similar to a university awarding an honorary doctorate...I don't think that would mean the honoree would be allowed to publish academic papers, teach, etc....

I'm not from Massachusetts so don't know how voters are there but I would guess that anyone who might be swayed by any of this would probably not have been likely to vote for her anyway.

Honestly, if you were going to "fake" minority status Indian would be the last one you would want, Indians are often called "the forgotten minority" because there is nowhere near as much interest in their issues compared to those of other minority groups.



Jacoby
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03 May 2012, 3:57 pm

SpiritBlooms wrote:
She grew up in a working class neighborhood in Oklahoma. Her father was a janitor who died of a heart attack when she was still in school. I don't think you want to really attack her on where she comes from. She's as working class as anyone, and has shown that most of the working class individuals declaring bankruptcy did so due to genuine family crises, breakups and medical bills that depleted their savings. She's on the side of working people, not big banks and big corporations, and I think this little smear campaign is despicable.

But go ahead, she'll still win.


She's about as 'working class' as Mitt Romney with her $5 million dollar home and $14 million dollar net worth. I imagine he husband isn't exactly a poor fella either also being a Harvard professor. You can not deny that she has tried to at the very least downplay her vast wealth.



ruveyn
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03 May 2012, 4:44 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:

Isn't there some sort of authority that determines who is Jewish?

I'm pretty sure that I couldn't just walk into any Synagogue, and say "Look at me! I'm circumcised! From now on, I'm a Jew!" Unlike becoming an Evangelical Christian, for which there are no formalities for joining--just show up and give your tithe.


There are some criteria formulated by Rabbis and Sages but no ruling body. Judaism is devoid of a ruling council. Whenever three Jews get together four opinions or viewpoints emerge. Getting a bunch of Jews to act in concert is akin to herding squirrels.

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ArrantPariah
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03 May 2012, 8:54 pm

It looks like those of us who can claim German ancestry may have an advantage

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aussiedler#Germany

Quote:
German law allows persons of German descent living anywhere in the world the right to return to Germany and claim German citizenship (Aussiedler/Spätaussiedler "late emigrants"; de:Aussiedler).


I may have had German ancestors who migrated to America over 200 years ago. So, if this is correct, then I should be able to go to Germany, claim German citizenship, and enjoy being a citizen of an EU country, if I wanted.



taxman
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03 May 2012, 9:05 pm

I believe Ireland has similar rules., although I think you have a parent or grandparent who was an Irish citizen.



ArrantPariah
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04 May 2012, 7:44 am

ruveyn wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:

Isn't there some sort of authority that determines who is Jewish?

I'm pretty sure that I couldn't just walk into any Synagogue, and say "Look at me! I'm circumcised! From now on, I'm a Jew!" Unlike becoming an Evangelical Christian, for which there are no formalities for joining--just show up and give your tithe.


There are some criteria formulated by Rabbis and Sages but no ruling body. Judaism is devoid of a ruling council. Whenever three Jews get together four opinions or viewpoints emerge. Getting a bunch of Jews to act in concert is akin to herding squirrels.

ruveyn


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aussiedler#Germany

Quote:
The Law of Return is legislation enacted by Israel in 1950, that gives all Jews, persons of Jewish ancestry, and spouses of Jews the right to emigrate to and settle in Israel and obtain citizenship, and obligates the Israeli government to facilitate their immigration. Originally, the law applied to Jews only, until a 1970 amendment stated that the rights "are also vested in a child and a grandchild of a Jew, the spouse of a Jew, the spouse of a child of a Jew and the spouse of a grandchild of a Jew". This resulted in several hundreds of thousands of persons fitting the above criteria immigrating to Israel (mainly from the former Soviet Union) but not being recognized as Jews by the Israeli religious authorities, which on the basis of halakha recognize only the child of a Jewish mother as being Jewish. Moreover, some of these immigrants, though having a Jewish grandparent, are known to be practicing Christians. This law does not apply to persons considered dangerous to the welfare of the state, who have a criminal past or are wanted fugitives in their countries with the exception of persecution victims. Jews who converted to another religion can also be denied the right of return. Since 1950 2,734,245 Jews have immigrated to Israel.


I don't have any Jewish ancestors that I know of. But, apparently Israel has some authorities who get to decide who can be a Jew. I'm sure that my circumcision would not be sufficient for me to be enrolled.



ArrantPariah
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04 May 2012, 7:49 am

taxman wrote:
I believe Ireland has similar rules., although I think you have a parent or grandparent who was an Irish citizen.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aussiedler#Germany

Quote:
Irish nationality law provides for Irish citizenship to be acquired on the basis of at least one Irish grandparent. Note that for the purposes of Irish nationality law a person born anywhere on the island of Ireland (including Northern Ireland) is considered "Irish." A person born outside of Ireland with entitlement to Irish citizenship through an Irish-born grandparent may pass that right on to her or his own children. To do so, however, that person must register her or his birth in Ireland's Foreign Births Register prior to the children's births. Irish law also automatically grants citizenship at birth to any Individual born abroad to a parent born in Ireland, without the need to register with the DFA prior to the granting of citizen's rights like holding a Irish passport

Separately from this right, the Irish minister responsible for immigration may dispense with conditions of naturalisation to grant citizenship to an applicant who "is of Irish descent or Irish associations", under section 15 of the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act, 1986. With rare exceptions the applicant must be resident in the island of Ireland before applying for naturalisation.


I like to play Irish fiddle tunes on my violin. I wonder if that's enough. :wink:



ArrantPariah
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04 May 2012, 10:23 am

taxman wrote:
Yes and no on the healthcare....if you are living in your traditional tribal area, then yes, if you move elsewhere it's harder to get. I live outside my tribal area these days and I believe there is some group out there that provides referrals for Indians living outside their area, but the resources available for me are much less than the local Indian people living here.


You can search here: http://www.ihs.gov/findhealthcare/index.cfm

Absolutely nothing in Illinois or Indiana--rather ironic, two states named for Indians, and from which the Indians were expelled over 150 years ago.

If you have a medical emergency, then you are responsible for your own expenses, if you can't make it to an IHS facility.

Well, okay--I don't think that I will bother seeking tribal membership.



naturalplastic
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04 May 2012, 10:37 am

taxman wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
One advantage to official enrollment is free medical care from the Indian Health Service.

I wonder if some tribes will allow non-members to enroll, through adoption or other means? As one may become a naturalized US citizen? Perhaps they could think of selling enrollments, for people who want the free medical care.


Yes and no on the healthcare....if you are living in your traditional tribal area, then yes, if you move elsewhere it's harder to get. I live outside my tribal area these days and I believe there is some group out there that provides referrals for Indians living outside their area, but the resources available for me are much less than the local Indian people living here.

I'm pretty confident that there is no tribe that would permit non-Indian people to join. Actually, my tribe recently voted to expel the descendants of former slaves who were owned by the Cherokee and had been counted as Cherokee when the rolls were created. It's been a huge controversy, and I think the US gov't has pressured them to re-admit them [by withholding federal funds for housing and other programs.]

Actually I guess those are cases where they did allow non-Indians to join, I think a lot of the Southern tribes had their slaves included after the Civil War, and the Seminole tribe was known for sheltering escaped slaves in Florida and adopted many of them.


Yes, there are "Black Seminoles" who have been likened to "Italian Americans"( hyphenated seminoles) who are descended from escaped slaves who lived (and fought the white man) alongside the heriditary seminoles. Thats Interesting about slaves who were owned by southern tribes like the cherokee. I knew native americans owned black slaves but didnt know about the modern issue of the ethnic affinity for the descendants of those slaves.

Shania Twain got more flack than the senator for self identifying as a Cree Indian.
But though the country star is a pure Anglo Canadian by blood her divorced mom married a cree and she grew up on the res and trapped rabbits for the dinner pot and lived the reservation culture and lifestyle. So she could be classified as a "White Cree" in the way that Florida's Black Seminoles are "Seminole".
So Shania Twain has more right to call herself an american indian than this lady who has never lived in a native american culture ( and is only one 32nd native american) has.

But the real question is this: what 'race' is the New Jersey Tanorexic Mom?

If youre blonde and were born White, but go nuts and spend so much time at the taning salon that you bake yourself into being darker than most African Americans and then you fall through a time warp and find yourself in the Jim Crow South of the thirties- what race would you be assigned to by the authorities?



ArrantPariah
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04 May 2012, 3:29 pm

CrazyCatLord wrote:
I've never seen a white person in my life, and there are remarkably few black people on this planet.


The Solomon Islands has a number of black folks with naturally blond hair

http://bristol.ac.uk/news/2012/8455.html



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04 May 2012, 4:46 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
CrazyCatLord wrote:
I've never seen a white person in my life, and there are remarkably few black people on this planet.


The Solomon Islands has a number of black folks with naturally blond hair

http://bristol.ac.uk/news/2012/8455.html


There is also a large number of blond people in the Indigenous Australian population :) My point was that most people that we call black are various shades of brown, just like so-called white people are actually beige, peach or apricot. Blond is a fairly accurate description of a human trait, whereas black and white are nothing but culturally constructed stereotypes. All women in the image below have the exact same skin color, and yet we call one of them white and another black:

Image

Most people would also call one of them Asian and another Hispanic, without knowing if they really live in Spain or in the part of Eurasia that our ancestors have arbitrarily defined as Asia as if it was a separate continent. What we are really doing, instead of identifying skin colors, is stereotyping people based on traits such as the width of their noses, despite the fact that these traits vary greatly within every human population. It makes very little sense, and of course it's very inaccurate. If you show a photo of an Andalusian person to different people and ask them to identify the "race", you will get answers such as "Middle Eastern" and "Mexican".

Of course it is helpful to use skin color in the description of a person, but I think we should get rid of racial stereotypes and try to be more accurate. Like "he was tall, medium blond, had dark brown eyes and sandy brown skin". Interestingly, most people wouldn't recognize a color like sandy brown, peach or deep taupe if it flew over their house and crapped on their car. People see these colors every day in the streets and yet they have no names for them. I think everybody can name at least ten shades of green, but when it comes to skin tones, we are trained to literally think in black and white.



Last edited by CrazyCatLord on 04 May 2012, 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.