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NateRiver
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07 May 2012, 4:37 am

Hi, I'm a girl with aspergers in year 9. I have really bad problems with maths and I cannot understand why. I've cheated on my mock exams(we're using old year 9 sats papers) by going through the questions before the actual test because I know I have a 100 percent chance of only getting a 25/60.

When I do maths I feel like a baby trying to walk? I can quite get it;however I'm going to fall down. I'm also a very left-brained person. I was given a GCSE biology paper and scored full marks with an A*(although it was very easy.) I scored the best in my class in physics which was an A;although it was quite an achievement because everyone else failed with a F. I'm good at debating( I don't shout at my opponents like most my class do) and I can pick out things in logic most people don't see. People describe me as being very good at being critical, analytic and logical. I got the third highest mark in my class for analyzing this Shakespeare and I didn't even have notes and barely read the book in detail. I just picked the paragraphs relevant and explained from there in comparison to the people who got higher levels than me who did.


But.. I get confused on things like:

Houses cost £60,000 one year ago.
They now cost £80,000.
This is a (insert answer here) increase.

I know how to do percentages and the rest of the concepts e.t.c My brother showed me that question in different forms and I got the answer right;however the solution to this question still baffles me despite knowing the logic, what to do and why. I looked at this problem into too much detail to solve it so, the method generally used confused me for example

80,000-60,000= 20,000
20,000/60,000= 0.33 * 100 = 33.3

I did it like this I made 60,000 to 6000

Then did 20,000/ 6000= 3.33 then multiplied by 10 because I found out 10 percent not 100 percent. It confuses me to do 100 percent because the numbers dividing together like that feel weird and strange to me. I tend to over-think and over- analyze things alot and understand questions differently for example:

Whats the 100th odd number?

I thought that as whats the odd number nearest to 100. I also suck at word problems according to my special ED teacher I understand the concept just I make silly mistakes. Word problems confuse me alot. I understand mathematical concepts but them in relation I can't do.


Anyone have any idea what I'm going through? Plus words in maths confuse me too and I also can't take simple directions to place I can't keep up with people.



kill231
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07 May 2012, 4:52 am

Some learn from others and some are naturally good


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psychegots
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07 May 2012, 6:07 am

Dude you make that example very complicated. Just take 8 divided by 6 and you get 1,33333.



mglosenger
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07 May 2012, 7:26 am

Different people are good at different things.



Species5618
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07 May 2012, 7:27 am

In general, with math I feel that you either have the intuition for it or not. I have it, which is convenient since I'm a mathematician. But most people don't have an instinctive way to deal with numbers and equations. Nevertheless, those people can be come quite competent at the math required at schools by both practise and by being very precise. I've tutored a number of kids in the past who were struggling with math and just doing a lot of practise and really stressing attention to detail seemed to help them out quite a bit.

Going over your two examples:

NateRiver wrote:

Houses cost £60,000 one year ago.
They now cost £80,000.
This is a (insert answer here) increase.

I know how to do percentages and the rest of the concepts e.t.c My brother showed me that question in different forms and I got the answer right;however the solution to this question still baffles me despite knowing the logic, what to do and why. I looked at this problem into too much detail to solve it so, the method generally used confused me for example

80,000-60,000= 20,000
20,000/60,000= 0.33 * 100 = 33.3


This would confuse me too if I didn't know much math. Because what's listed in the second line is flat out incorrect. 20,000 / 60,000 = 0.33, this is true, but the computation continues by multiplying by 100, which means that the first part of the equation reads: 20,000 / 60,000 = 0.33 * 100, which is clearly wrong. It is very tempting to do computations like this, because it's shorter than writing everything out in detail. But for people that are not very comfortable with math, it can lead to errors. I noticed this type of notation a lot, especially with my brother who struggled with math for a time. I made him write things out in detail and it went better. For myself, I wouldn't have issues writing short-hand like that, because I know what I'm calculating. But if you're struggling with math, then focus on details. For example, I would rewrite that whole computation as:

80,000 - 60,000 = 20,000 (absolute increase)
20,000 / 60,000 = 0.33 (relative increase)
0.33 * 100% = 33% (percentage increase)

Each step is a correct calculation, I add the percentage symbol (%) to indicate where I work with percentages, so I don't confuse readers (including myself) by a seemingly arbitrary multiplication by 100 and after each step I write down what it is that I calculated.

Not only does this make things infinitely clearer for yourself, it also makes it clearer for anyone trying to read your answer, including the teacher. I don't know how scoring is done on your tests, but at the schools I attended, most tests had open-ended questions where you would get points for getting part of the calculation right. The more correct steps you wrote down, the better your score even if the final answer was incorrect.

Quote:
I tend to over-think and over- analyze things alot and understand questions differently for example:

Whats the 100th odd number?

I thought that as whats the odd number nearest to 100. I also suck at word problems according to my special ED teacher I understand the concept just I make silly mistakes. Word problems confuse me alot. I understand mathematical concepts but them in relation I can't do.


Problems with words confuse a lot of people. I think most people would prefer just a basic list of the information available and then a clear question rather than the "story-approach" to math problems. Unfortunately, schools tend to prefer the story-approach and consider it part of your math training to learn how to get the required information out of the problem-statement. This is not something you can learn with a trick, it's mostly just simple practise. You could ask your teacher for a set of problems where all you have to do is to read the problem and try to phrase the problem in your own words, to check whether you understood the problem correctly and got all the relevant information out of the text.

Especially people with dyslexia struggle a lot with the modern approach to math education, even though they may be pretty good at math.



Wandering_Stranger
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07 May 2012, 7:42 am

Learning from others helps me too. I also found that it helps if the person doesn't overcomplicate the method.

It's also something you can practise too. There's also revision websites such as BBC Bitesize.



NateRiver
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07 May 2012, 8:11 am

Species5618 wrote:
In general, with math I feel that you either have the intuition for it or not. I have it, which is convenient since I'm a mathematician. But most people don't have an instinctive way to deal with numbers and equations. Nevertheless, those people can be come quite competent at the math required at schools by both practise and by being very precise. I've tutored a number of kids in the past who were struggling with math and just doing a lot of practise and really stressing attention to detail seemed to help them out quite a bit.

Going over your two examples:

NateRiver wrote:

Houses cost £60,000 one year ago.
They now cost £80,000.
This is a (insert answer here) increase.

I know how to do percentages and the rest of the concepts e.t.c My brother showed me that question in different forms and I got the answer right;however the solution to this question still baffles me despite knowing the logic, what to do and why. I looked at this problem into too much detail to solve it so, the method generally used confused me for example

80,000-60,000= 20,000
20,000/60,000= 0.33 * 100 = 33.3


This would confuse me too if I didn't know much math. Because what's listed in the second line is flat out incorrect. 20,000 / 60,000 = 0.33, this is true, but the computation continues by multiplying by 100, which means that the first part of the equation reads: 20,000 / 60,000 = 0.33 * 100, which is clearly wrong. It is very tempting to do computations like this, because it's shorter than writing everything out in detail. But for people that are not very comfortable with math, it can lead to errors. I noticed this type of notation a lot, especially with my brother who struggled with math for a time. I made him write things out in detail and it went better. For myself, I wouldn't have issues writing short-hand like that, because I know what I'm calculating. But if you're struggling with math, then focus on details. For example, I would rewrite that whole computation as:

80,000 - 60,000 = 20,000 (absolute increase)
20,000 / 60,000 = 0.33 (relative increase)
0.33 * 100% = 33% (percentage increase)

Each step is a correct calculation, I add the percentage symbol (%) to indicate where I work with percentages, so I don't confuse readers (including myself) by a seemingly arbitrary multiplication by 100 and after each step I write down what it is that I calculated.

Not only does this make things infinitely clearer for yourself, it also makes it clearer for anyone trying to read your answer, including the teacher. I don't know how scoring is done on your tests, but at the schools I attended, most tests had open-ended questions where you would get points for getting part of the calculation right. The more correct steps you wrote down, the better your score even if the final answer was incorrect.

Quote:
I tend to over-think and over- analyze things alot and understand questions differently for example:

Whats the 100th odd number?

I thought that as whats the odd number nearest to 100. I also suck at word problems according to my special ED teacher I understand the concept just I make silly mistakes. Word problems confuse me alot. I understand mathematical concepts but them in relation I can't do.


Problems with words confuse a lot of people. I think most people would prefer just a basic list of the information available and then a clear question rather than the "story-approach" to math problems. Unfortunately, schools tend to prefer the story-approach and consider it part of your math training to learn how to get the required information out of the problem-statement. This is not something you can learn with a trick, it's mostly just simple practise. You could ask your teacher for a set of problems where all you have to do is to read the problem and try to phrase the problem in your own words, to check whether you understood the problem correctly and got all the relevant information out of the text.

Especially people with dyslexia struggle a lot with the modern approach to math education, even though they may be pretty good at math.


Whats the relative increase?



AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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07 May 2012, 11:47 am

NateRiver wrote:
. . .
Houses cost £60,000 one year ago.
They now cost £80,000.
This is a (insert answer here) increase.
. . .

There is a 33% increase. (And frankly I don't know if this should be called a relative increase or not.)

===================

People manipulate percentages all the time. And I mean business people and politicians, but it really could be anyone.

Are you in a sense standing at the first year looking forward, or at the second year looking backward? It makes a difference! This problem clearly indicates that you are standing at the first year looking forward.



CuriousKitten
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07 May 2012, 11:59 am

alot of math is memorizing and understanding the formulae.

I always do good -- my "secret" is doing every problem in the book as far as time and energy permit. In High School I didn't even pay attention in class -- I was usually several chapters ahead. Occasionally the teacher would call on me. I'd find out what page and problem, go back in my notebook to that problem and give the correct answer.

Now with the Internet, there is online instruction available, like Khan Accademy ( http://www.khanacademy.org/ )



AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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07 May 2012, 12:06 pm

NateRiver wrote:
. . . I was given a GCSE biology paper and scored full marks with an A*(although it was very easy.) I scored the best in my class in physics which was an A; . . .

Have you thought about becoming a doctor? I mean the real thing, going to medical school, getting an MD, helping your patients, networking and coaching with your colleagues.

I like medical journalism. I feel I'm pretty good at distilling and summarizing. For example, . .

"Report Finds Swine Flu Has Killed 36 Children,” New York Times, Denise Grady, Sept. 3, 2009.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/04/healt ... .html?_r=1

“ . . . In children without chronic health problems, it is a warning sign if they seem to recover from the flu but then relapse with a high fever, Dr. Frieden said. The relapse may be bacterial pneumonia, which must be treated with antibiotics. . . ”

So, if I had a parent who had brought in a sick child who I diagnosed with the flu (different and more serious than a cold), I might say, 'Take the ________, drink plenty of fluids, probably be a couple of days. And this is important, if Carol seems to be getting better and then relapses with a high fever, that is potentially serious. Might be pneumonia, doesn't mean that it is, but might be. So, relapse with high fever, let me know right away.'

For a variety of reasons, I don't think being a doctor is right for me. But it might be right for you. :D Maybe read/skim a couple of medical school bigraphies and see what you think.



NateRiver
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07 May 2012, 1:49 pm

AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:
NateRiver wrote:
. . . I was given a GCSE biology paper and scored full marks with an A*(although it was very easy.) I scored the best in my class in physics which was an A; . . .

Have you thought about becoming a doctor? I mean the real thing, going to medical school, getting an MD, helping your patients, networking and coaching with your colleagues.

I like medical journalism. I feel I'm pretty good at distilling and summarizing. For example, . .

"Report Finds Swine Flu Has Killed 36 Children,” New York Times, Denise Grady, Sept. 3, 2009.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/04/healt ... .html?_r=1

“ . . . In children without chronic health problems, it is a warning sign if they seem to recover from the flu but then relapse with a high fever, Dr. Frieden said. The relapse may be bacterial pneumonia, which must be treated with antibiotics. . . ”

So, if I had a parent who had brought in a sick child who I diagnosed with the flu (different and more serious than a cold), I might say, 'Take the ________, drink plenty of fluids, probably be a couple of days. And this is important, if Carol seems to be getting better and then relapses with a high fever, that is potentially serious. Might be pneumonia, doesn't mean that it is, but might be. So, relapse with high fever, let me know right away.'

For a variety of reasons, I don't think being a doctor is right for me. But it might be right for you. :D Maybe read/skim a couple of medical school bigraphies and see what you think.


I would be a s**t doctor. I have no empathy. I'm more focused on my problem with maths..



helles
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07 May 2012, 1:54 pm

Tjek out

Quote:
dyscalculia
her on WP. You might not have dyscalculia, but in some of these postings other people explain a lot of their problems with learning math. There are many wariations. If you figure out exactely what your problem is, you have come a long way.

Helle



edgewaters
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07 May 2012, 2:03 pm

Subjects I had difficulty with in school, I found sometimes it was useful to go pick up a book designed for someone who wants to teach themselves, or to try different old textbooks. Sometimes it's just the way it's being taught that's the problem, not the material itself.

I did this with high school physics for instance. I was failing the class at the start, but I pulled my mark up to a B (couldn't get an A because the early marks dragged down the average too much). I actually like physics quite a lot now. But the way the teacher taught that class, I just didn't get it at all.



Rascal77s
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07 May 2012, 2:51 pm

I'm starting to wonder if you're using us to do math homework, this is your 3rd or 4th thread on this topic :P



Klokateer
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07 May 2012, 4:07 pm

I have a massive problem with basic math. I failed it all through High School......even basic math. I never have figured out why I can't do basic math, but play guitar. Students of music have told me that it's all math. I learned to play by ear so I don't know.



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07 May 2012, 4:19 pm

NateRiver wrote:
Hi, I'm a girl with aspergers in year 9. I have really bad problems with maths and I cannot understand why. I've cheated on my mock exams(we're using old year 9 sats papers) by going through the questions before the actual test because I know I have a 100 percent chance of only getting a 25/60.


There is your problem like there. If you were good at math you would never say that you have a 100% of scoring X on a test, except possibly 100%.


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