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Dox47
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09 May 2012, 2:04 am

...Why can't they empathize with Conservatives? It might actually be hard wired into their brains.

(man, I'm on a roll tonight finding good articles...)

Jonathan Haidt wrote:
...
Crossing the Divide

The two narratives are as opposed as they could be. Can partisans even understand the story told by the other side? The obstacles to empathy are not symmetrical. There is no foundation used by the left that is not also used by the right. Even though conservatives score slightly lower on measures of empathy and may therefore be less moved by a story about suffering and oppression, they can still recognize that it is awful to be kept in chains. And even though many conservatives opposed some of the great liberations of the 20th century—of women, sweatshop workers, African Americans, and gay people—they have applauded others, such as the liberation of Eastern Europe from communist oppression.

But when liberals try to understand the Reagan narrative, they have a harder time. When I speak to liberal audiences about the three “binding” foundations—loyalty, authority, and sanctity—I find that many in the audience don’t just fail to resonate; they actively reject these concerns as immoral. Loyalty to a group shrinks the moral circle; it is the basis of racism and exclusion, they say. Authority is oppression. Sanctity is religious mumbo-jumbo whose only function is to suppress female sexuality and justify homophobia.

In a study I conducted with colleagues Jesse Graham and Brian Nosek, we tested how well liberals and con­servatives could understand each other. We asked more than 2,000 American visitors to fill out the Moral Foundations Questionnaire. One-third of the time they were asked to fill it out normally, answering as themselves. One-third of the time they were asked to fill it out as they think a “typical liberal” would respond. One-third of the time they were asked to fill it out as a “typical conservative” would respond. This design allowed us to examine the stereotypes that each side held about the other. More important, it allowed us to assess how accurate they were by comparing people’s expectations about “typical” partisans to the actual responses from partisans on the left and the right. Who was best able to pretend to be the other?

The results were clear and consistent. Moderates and conservatives were most accurate in their predictions, whether they were pretending to be liberals or conservatives. Liberals were the least accurate, especially those who described themselves as “very liberal.” The biggest errors in the whole study came when liberals answered the care and fairness questions while pretending to be conservatives. When faced with statements such as “one of the worst things a person could do is hurt a defenseless animal” or “justice is the most important requirement for a society,” liberals assumed that conservatives would disagree. If you have a moral matrix built primarily on intuitions about care and fairness (as equality), and you listen to the Reagan narrative, what else could you think? Reagan seems completely unconcerned about the welfare of drug addicts, poor people, and gay people. He is more interested in fighting wars and telling people how to run their sex lives.

If you don’t see that Reagan is pursuing positive values of loyalty, authority, and sanctity, you almost have to conclude that Republicans see no positive value in care and fairness. You might even go as far as Michael Feingold, a theater critic for the liberal weekly The Village Voice, when he wrote in 2004: “Republicans don’t believe in the imagination, partly because so few of them have one, but mostly because it gets in the way of their chosen work, which is to destroy the human race and the planet.…Which is why I personally think they should be exterminated before they cause any more harm.” One of the many ironies in this quotation is that it shows the inability of a theater critic—who skillfully enters fantastical imaginary worlds for a living—to imagine that Republicans act within a moral matrix that differs from his own. ...


It's taken from a much larger article, starting here: http://reason.com/archives/2012/04/10/born-this-way , with the quoted text starting on page 3.

It tends to confirm something I've heard from a lot of my conservative friends over the years and something I've noticed myself when I've supported a conservative position; the feeling that while conservatives think liberals are wrong, liberals think conservatives are evil. I know, gross generalization and several people are about to come forward with counter-examples and/or argue exactly the opposite, and to them I would say read the whole article.

I really dig this guy btw, even when he's not agreeing with me; he gives a great TED talk that's available on Netflix streaming for those who're interested.


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Oodain
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09 May 2012, 3:04 am

anyone who blindly adheres to a false dichotomy is an idiot, no matter which side they choose to be on.


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auntblabby
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09 May 2012, 3:10 am

i believe people to be evil if they make life harder for me and mine for no good reason. i use the word EVIL instead of WRONG because [putting it baldly] a wrong would be to describe rap as music ;) or to overcharge for a promised service yet underdeliver [what many capitalists are very good at doing, i.e., buying low and selling high!] - whereas an evil would be to cause physical pain to people who have not harmed you one bit. for example, to deny the working class affordable [not bankrupting] healthcare is a real EVIL that causes real physical pain to innocents. a rightist [or clueless] person who votes for classist/sexist/rightist pols is hurting me in a very real way, every day, by making it much harder for me to obtain health care by dint of law, and by throwing legal obstacles to me obtaining my ordinary civil rights as an american citizen. such people who rub salt into the wound by sneering, "just eschew being gay!" (or by saying "just get rich or die trying") are only making things worse still. obviously, an evil is a worse category of a wrong, and what the present-day scorched-earth righties are doing [rampant and widespread disenfranchisement/abuse of the working class/people lacking $$$$$], from my perspective as a working class person subject to the callous whims of the rightie powers-that-be, is a worse category of the class called "wrong" to which righties see us lumpenproles as wrongheaded members, IOW i see most righties i've known of, as mostly EVIL, at least to my class of people. :x in this case i'd much rather be wrong than "right." :)



Last edited by auntblabby on 09 May 2012, 4:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

DogsWithoutHorses
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09 May 2012, 4:02 am

IDK about the characterization that it's liberals thinking of conservatives as evil as opposed to wrong.
I've never seen a liberal characterize an opponent as godless or going to hell.
I've never had a liberal call me an evil slut.
This election cycle I would not begrudge anyone with the potential to get pregnant feeling that conservatives are evil.
I think there is an issue in this study with the difference between the conservative electorate and conservative pundits / politicians.
It would probably help with the image of conservatives in general if prominent conservative politicians stopped acting like cartoon villains


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auntblabby
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09 May 2012, 4:16 am

DogsWithoutHorses wrote:
It would probably help with the image of conservatives in general if prominent conservative politicians stopped acting like cartoon villains

QFT+!



Mummy_of_Peanut
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09 May 2012, 4:42 am

OP, Morals are mentioned in the quote. That's it for me. I can't empathise with a person's feelings, if their morals are in conflict with my own. In the UK, Conservatism equates with widening the gap between rich and poor. Even in this economic crisis, the rich are getting richer (they've just had a huge tax break), whilst the less well off are losing out in a big way. Although I'm not poor, I can empathise with those who are struggling, whilst working hard. They've done nothing to deserve this treatment. And we're being told by the Conservative government that we're all in it together. Unfairness like this is immoral and I can't get into the mindset of anyone who thinks this is an acceptable way to run a country.


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WilliamWDelaney
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09 May 2012, 5:56 am

Dox47 wrote:
...Why can't they empathize with Conservatives? It might actually be hard wired into their brains.
Because conservatives are evil?



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09 May 2012, 7:05 am

Is anyone arguing that Conservatives are not stupid, evil, or both?



WilliamWDelaney
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09 May 2012, 8:50 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
Is anyone arguing that Conservatives are not stupid, evil, or both?
Compare liberals to a group of people who have made a compact to always trust each other, to always share their thoughts openly, to always support each other in their time of need. Think of it as a "circle of trust." It is a compact.

Now, the conservatives are like another group of people who come along and say, "well, if you guys think so highly of trust, why don't you trust everybody, without question?"

Simple: if you don't sign the compact, you don't get the benefit. Conservatives, by definition, are against tolerance, against kindness, against fairness for its own sake, against social unity.

Therefore, they are the outsider. Not black people. Not Jews. Not queers. Not women. Not foreigners or immigrants. Not people of other faiths. Not atheists. The only people on the outside are the ones who choose not to join the "good guy club."

If you are not willing to join the club and play by its rules, which are extremely easy to follow, you don't get the benefits. It is as simple as that.



soutthpaw
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09 May 2012, 9:06 am

Mummy_of_Peanut wrote:
OP, Morals are mentioned in the quote. That's it for me. I can't empathise with a person's feelings, if their morals are in conflict with my own. In the UK, Conservatism equates with widening the gap between rich and poor. Even in this economic crisis, the rich are getting richer (they've just had a huge tax break), whilst the less well off are losing out in a big way. Although I'm not poor, I can empathise with those who are struggling, whilst working hard. They've done nothing to deserve this treatment. And we're being told by the Conservative government that we're all in it together. Unfairness like this is immoral and I can't get into the mindset of anyone who thinks this is an acceptable way to run a country.


Funny thing is that the UK far right conservatives are equal to moderate left democrats here in the USA, I don't think you will find any other country that has Far right conservatives as extreme as the USA.

The biggest problem with the Conservatives here in the USA is that they have aligned themselves so strongly with the Church that anyone who is atheist cannot vote for them... And as for EVIL? well I can point you to many examples of how the far right demonizes the left... I see no separation of Church and State with the current Republican party. To win elections here you need the Independent and moderate vote which I really think the republicans are alienating


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Mummy_of_Peanut
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09 May 2012, 10:35 am

^ Some of UK Conservatives are far right too (our PM appears to be one of them, reminds me all too much of Thatcher). They don't tend to make openly racist or homophobic statements, however. It's the financial inequality, that they appear to want, that stands out.

I do agree with you about US politics tho'. I find the fact that socialism seems to be a bad word or somehow evil or immoral to be really insulting and ironic. Thankfully, that's not the case here in the UK. Republicans don't have the monopoly on good, just because they appear to associate themselves with the bible. I don't see how the right wing party policies can be justified after reading the bible anyway. It seems hypocritical and quite surreal actually. Although I no longer participate in religion and consider myself to be agnostic, the one thing I did get from my reading of the bible was acceptance, tolerance, social equality, fairness and kindness to my fellow humans - all the stuff that right wing parties don't see as important. Did I read the wrong book?


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Last edited by Mummy_of_Peanut on 09 May 2012, 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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09 May 2012, 10:37 am

soutthpaw wrote:

The biggest problem with the Conservatives here in the USA is that they have aligned themselves so strongly with the Church that anyone who is atheist cannot vote for them... And as for EVIL? well I can point you to many examples of how the far right demonizes the left... I see no separation of Church and State with the current Republican party. To win elections here you need the Independent and moderate vote which I really think the republicans are alienating


I almost don't see the Republicans as a political party anymore. They are the Republican machine. It's all about strength in numbers, and conforming into the fold. They drum out the same talking points, and protect the conservative image at all cost. There's no open dialogue or compromise in government anymore, and not much humanity really. I blame Rupert Murdoch....



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09 May 2012, 10:59 am

Funny, but from my seat, liberals are more likely to see the political differences as differences of opinion and experience, while the conservatives are the ones calling Liberals evil and many other derogatory names.

I don't trust their survey. I've taken surveys designed by conservative groups, and there was no way for me to answer any of them in any way that even began to represent what I felt. And that was by design, so that the survey would support the claims they wanted to make. Political think tanks are very, very good at this game.

All that said, I do know there is real empathy related issue among liberals when it comes to conservatives, it can be very obvious when you live in a highly liberal area, ust ... This isn't it. Bonus points if you can find it or state it.


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09 May 2012, 11:01 am

The notion that civil rights should be left up to majority rule, as in the case of gay marriage - which has been championed by the Republican party - is essentially UN-American, and can't possibly be good.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



soutthpaw
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09 May 2012, 11:21 am

I want to clarify the Church/State separation

Do not make laws that the primarily/only basis for their existence is teachings of a religious doctrine. Or laws that promote a specific religious agenda.

I think telling someone who they can and cannot love is a huge trespass on personal right and privacy and has no grounds outside religious doctrine


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09 May 2012, 11:36 am

soutthpaw wrote:
I want to clarify the Church/State separation

Do not make laws that the primarily/only basis for their existence is teachings of a religious doctrine. Or laws that promote a specific religious agenda.

I think telling someone who they can and cannot love is a huge trespass on personal right and privacy and has no grounds outside religious doctrine


Amen. 8)

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer