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Raptor
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31 May 2012, 6:33 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
That's absolutely correct. The notion that there was some sort of Islamic terrorist connection was entirely a fiction created by the Bush administration. Even that bloviating ignoramus Donald Trump has enough sense to know Saddam killed terrorists in his country.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Sadam's regime was terror itself. Don't take my word, just ask the Kurds....


I think you know I'm talking about terrorist organizations that threatened Americans, Israelis, and other other allies.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


If Iraq weren't part of your beloved Islamic world you would have screamed outrage over sadam's campaign against the Kurds. I guess anything goes as long as the perpetrators pray with their butts in the air.....


Beloved Islamic world? Ask ruveyn, and he'll tell you that I'm partial to German Lutherans.
Incidentally, I am in no way a defender of Saddam Husein, and the world is doubtlessly better now that he's gone. But considering the cost to our country regarding removing him from power, and that the Bush administration had to lie to get us into a second Gulf War, I think I and others are more than justified in being critical.
By the way, most Kurds are Muslims, too.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Quote:
Beloved Islamic world? Ask ruveyn, and he'll tell you that I'm partial to German Lutherans.

I didn't say that you were one but that you seem to have a disproportionate admiration or whatever it is for them.
Why ask Ruveyn? He hates both of us....

.



ruveyn
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31 May 2012, 7:17 pm

Raptor wrote:
Why ask Ruveyn? He hates both of us....

.


No I don't. Neither of you have wronged me.

ruveyn



Joker
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31 May 2012, 7:22 pm

My only beef with liberals is simple trying to create gun controle laws. When their is a such thing as a right to bare arms.



Kraichgauer
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31 May 2012, 7:48 pm

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
That's absolutely correct. The notion that there was some sort of Islamic terrorist connection was entirely a fiction created by the Bush administration. Even that bloviating ignoramus Donald Trump has enough sense to know Saddam killed terrorists in his country.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Sadam's regime was terror itself. Don't take my word, just ask the Kurds....


I think you know I'm talking about terrorist organizations that threatened Americans, Israelis, and other other allies.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


If Iraq weren't part of your beloved Islamic world you would have screamed outrage over sadam's campaign against the Kurds. I guess anything goes as long as the perpetrators pray with their butts in the air.....


Beloved Islamic world? Ask ruveyn, and he'll tell you that I'm partial to German Lutherans.
Incidentally, I am in no way a defender of Saddam Husein, and the world is doubtlessly better now that he's gone. But considering the cost to our country regarding removing him from power, and that the Bush administration had to lie to get us into a second Gulf War, I think I and others are more than justified in being critical.
By the way, most Kurds are Muslims, too.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Quote:
Beloved Islamic world? Ask ruveyn, and he'll tell you that I'm partial to German Lutherans.

I didn't say that you were one but that you seem to have a disproportionate admiration or whatever it is for them.
Why ask Ruveyn? He hates both of us....

.


I don't have a disproportionate admiration for Muslims or the Middle East. It might be because I know what it is to be bullied and picked on that I find myself automatically taking the defense of whoever is the underdog. And in this case, Muslims in general have been taking a beating in this thread.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Kraichgauer
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31 May 2012, 7:49 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Why ask Ruveyn? He hates both of us....

.


No I don't. Neither of you have wronged me.

ruveyn


For the record, I never took your jabs all that seriously.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Raptor
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31 May 2012, 8:23 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Why ask Ruveyn? He hates both of us....

.


No I don't. Neither of you have wronged me.

ruveyn


I was joking.......... :jester:



Raptor
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31 May 2012, 8:34 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
That's absolutely correct. The notion that there was some sort of Islamic terrorist connection was entirely a fiction created by the Bush administration. Even that bloviating ignoramus Donald Trump has enough sense to know Saddam killed terrorists in his country.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Sadam's regime was terror itself. Don't take my word, just ask the Kurds....


I think you know I'm talking about terrorist organizations that threatened Americans, Israelis, and other other allies.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


If Iraq weren't part of your beloved Islamic world you would have screamed outrage over sadam's campaign against the Kurds. I guess anything goes as long as the perpetrators pray with their butts in the air.....


Beloved Islamic world? Ask ruveyn, and he'll tell you that I'm partial to German Lutherans.
Incidentally, I am in no way a defender of Saddam Husein, and the world is doubtlessly better now that he's gone. But considering the cost to our country regarding removing him from power, and that the Bush administration had to lie to get us into a second Gulf War, I think I and others are more than justified in being critical.
By the way, most Kurds are Muslims, too.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Quote:
Beloved Islamic world? Ask ruveyn, and he'll tell you that I'm partial to German Lutherans.

I didn't say that you were one but that you seem to have a disproportionate admiration or whatever it is for them.
Why ask Ruveyn? He hates both of us....

.


I don't have a disproportionate admiration for Muslims or the Middle East. It might be because I know what it is to be bullied and picked on that I find myself automatically taking the defense of whoever is the underdog. And in this case, Muslims in general have been taking a beating in this thread.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I'm gonna wrap up my part of it with this:
As a whole they are a group we shouldn't be turning our backs on even if they are US citizens.
If they are not US citizens with no specific reason to be here they need to be going home or somewhere else even if at bayonet point.
Islam is not a western friendly religion and their track record in the US and abroad speaks for itself.
That's my position on this and will continue to be.



marshall
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31 May 2012, 8:48 pm

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
That's absolutely correct. The notion that there was some sort of Islamic terrorist connection was entirely a fiction created by the Bush administration. Even that bloviating ignoramus Donald Trump has enough sense to know Saddam killed terrorists in his country.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Sadam's regime was terror itself. Don't take my word, just ask the Kurds....


I think you know I'm talking about terrorist organizations that threatened Americans, Israelis, and other other allies.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


If Iraq weren't part of your beloved Islamic world you would have screamed outrage over sadam's campaign against the Kurds. I guess anything goes as long as the perpetrators pray with their butts in the air.....


That happened in the 1980s. If that was the justification, then why did the US decide to wait until 2003 to invade Iraq and dispose of Saddam's regime?

I also don't get where you come up with the idea that anyone who opposes the US invasion must tacitly condone the actions perpetrated by Saddam in 1988. It only shows you have no comprehension of the reasons why anyone would object to your beloved leader's decision to go to war under nebulous and dishonest pretenses. Either that or you're just trolling. If that's the case then I might ask why do you hate poor people? Why do you want to trash the earth and ruin the livelihood of future generations? Let people without health insurance die on the streets? Also Saddam is spelled with two d's.



Joker
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31 May 2012, 8:55 pm

1. Liberal policies generally emphasize the need for the government to solve problems.
Okay my problem with this belief is I do not need the Government to solve my problems.

2. Conservative policies generally emphasize empowerment of the individual to solve problems.
Okay I can understand that is a good thing but they only emphasize it which is odd.



Kraichgauer
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31 May 2012, 9:06 pm

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
That's absolutely correct. The notion that there was some sort of Islamic terrorist connection was entirely a fiction created by the Bush administration. Even that bloviating ignoramus Donald Trump has enough sense to know Saddam killed terrorists in his country.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Sadam's regime was terror itself. Don't take my word, just ask the Kurds....


I think you know I'm talking about terrorist organizations that threatened Americans, Israelis, and other other allies.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


If Iraq weren't part of your beloved Islamic world you would have screamed outrage over sadam's campaign against the Kurds. I guess anything goes as long as the perpetrators pray with their butts in the air.....


Beloved Islamic world? Ask ruveyn, and he'll tell you that I'm partial to German Lutherans.
Incidentally, I am in no way a defender of Saddam Husein, and the world is doubtlessly better now that he's gone. But considering the cost to our country regarding removing him from power, and that the Bush administration had to lie to get us into a second Gulf War, I think I and others are more than justified in being critical.
By the way, most Kurds are Muslims, too.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Quote:
Beloved Islamic world? Ask ruveyn, and he'll tell you that I'm partial to German Lutherans.

I didn't say that you were one but that you seem to have a disproportionate admiration or whatever it is for them.
Why ask Ruveyn? He hates both of us....

.


I don't have a disproportionate admiration for Muslims or the Middle East. It might be because I know what it is to be bullied and picked on that I find myself automatically taking the defense of whoever is the underdog. And in this case, Muslims in general have been taking a beating in this thread.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I'm gonna wrap up my part of it with this:
As a whole they are a group we shouldn't be turning our backs on even if they are US citizens.
If they are not US citizens with no specific reason to be here they need to be going home or somewhere else even if at bayonet point.
Islam is not a western friendly religion and their track record in the US and abroad speaks for itself.
That's my position on this and will continue to be.


You won't turn your back on Muslim Americans, because they're hostile to the U.S., huh?
If you recall, they had said that about Americans with leftist affiliations during the Red Scare. They also had said that about Japanese Americans during WWII, and my own German American forebears during WWI. That assumption to paint whole groups was wrong then, and it's wrong today regarding all Muslim Americans.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Joker
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31 May 2012, 9:14 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
That's absolutely correct. The notion that there was some sort of Islamic terrorist connection was entirely a fiction created by the Bush administration. Even that bloviating ignoramus Donald Trump has enough sense to know Saddam killed terrorists in his country.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Sadam's regime was terror itself. Don't take my word, just ask the Kurds....


I think you know I'm talking about terrorist organizations that threatened Americans, Israelis, and other other allies.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


If Iraq weren't part of your beloved Islamic world you would have screamed outrage over sadam's campaign against the Kurds. I guess anything goes as long as the perpetrators pray with their butts in the air.....


Beloved Islamic world? Ask ruveyn, and he'll tell you that I'm partial to German Lutherans.
Incidentally, I am in no way a defender of Saddam Husein, and the world is doubtlessly better now that he's gone. But considering the cost to our country regarding removing him from power, and that the Bush administration had to lie to get us into a second Gulf War, I think I and others are more than justified in being critical.
By the way, most Kurds are Muslims, too.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Quote:
Beloved Islamic world? Ask ruveyn, and he'll tell you that I'm partial to German Lutherans.

I didn't say that you were one but that you seem to have a disproportionate admiration or whatever it is for them.
Why ask Ruveyn? He hates both of us....

.


I don't have a disproportionate admiration for Muslims or the Middle East. It might be because I know what it is to be bullied and picked on that I find myself automatically taking the defense of whoever is the underdog. And in this case, Muslims in general have been taking a beating in this thread.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I'm gonna wrap up my part of it with this:
As a whole they are a group we shouldn't be turning our backs on even if they are US citizens.
If they are not US citizens with no specific reason to be here they need to be going home or somewhere else even if at bayonet point.
Islam is not a western friendly religion and their track record in the US and abroad speaks for itself.
That's my position on this and will continue to be.


You won't turn your back on Muslim Americans, because they're hostile to the U.S., huh?
If you recall, they had said that about Americans with leftist affiliations during the Red Scare. They also had said that about Japanese Americans during WWII, and my own German American forebears during WWI. That assumption to paint whole groups was wrong then, and it's wrong today regarding all Muslim Americans.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Very true during WW1 all german americans where viewed as the enemy and where forced to support America. If they didn't they where arrested and trialed for treason.



marshall
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31 May 2012, 9:15 pm

Raptor wrote:
I'm gonna wrap up my part of it with this:
As a whole they are a group we shouldn't be turning our backs on even if they are US citizens.
If they are not US citizens with no specific reason to be here they need to be going home or somewhere else even if at bayonet point.
Islam is not a western friendly religion and their track record in the US and abroad speaks for itself.
That's my position on this and will continue to be.

Do you even know how many Muslims come to the US because they do NOT want to have to choose between living under autocratic dictators or clerics hell bent on imposing religious law on them? Do you know how many are moderate and question the more brutal and backward teachings within the Quran (or at least don't believe they should be applied today as they were in 600AD), just as the vast majority of Christians and Jews do with regards to the Bible. If they don't advertize their views it may be that they have fundamentalist family members who will chastise them for not towing the line.



Kraichgauer
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31 May 2012, 9:23 pm

Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
That's absolutely correct. The notion that there was some sort of Islamic terrorist connection was entirely a fiction created by the Bush administration. Even that bloviating ignoramus Donald Trump has enough sense to know Saddam killed terrorists in his country.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Sadam's regime was terror itself. Don't take my word, just ask the Kurds....


I think you know I'm talking about terrorist organizations that threatened Americans, Israelis, and other other allies.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


If Iraq weren't part of your beloved Islamic world you would have screamed outrage over sadam's campaign against the Kurds. I guess anything goes as long as the perpetrators pray with their butts in the air.....


Beloved Islamic world? Ask ruveyn, and he'll tell you that I'm partial to German Lutherans.
Incidentally, I am in no way a defender of Saddam Husein, and the world is doubtlessly better now that he's gone. But considering the cost to our country regarding removing him from power, and that the Bush administration had to lie to get us into a second Gulf War, I think I and others are more than justified in being critical.
By the way, most Kurds are Muslims, too.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Quote:
Beloved Islamic world? Ask ruveyn, and he'll tell you that I'm partial to German Lutherans.

I didn't say that you were one but that you seem to have a disproportionate admiration or whatever it is for them.
Why ask Ruveyn? He hates both of us....

.


I don't have a disproportionate admiration for Muslims or the Middle East. It might be because I know what it is to be bullied and picked on that I find myself automatically taking the defense of whoever is the underdog. And in this case, Muslims in general have been taking a beating in this thread.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I'm gonna wrap up my part of it with this:
As a whole they are a group we shouldn't be turning our backs on even if they are US citizens.
If they are not US citizens with no specific reason to be here they need to be going home or somewhere else even if at bayonet point.
Islam is not a western friendly religion and their track record in the US and abroad speaks for itself.
That's my position on this and will continue to be.


You won't turn your back on Muslim Americans, because they're hostile to the U.S., huh?
If you recall, they had said that about Americans with leftist affiliations during the Red Scare. They also had said that about Japanese Americans during WWII, and my own German American forebears during WWI. That assumption to paint whole groups was wrong then, and it's wrong today regarding all Muslim Americans.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Very true during WW1 all german americans where viewed as the enemy and where forced to support America. If they didn't they where arrested and trialed for treason.


A hard time for my Dad's family. A couple of my great uncles had high tailed it to Canada, while my Grandfather, who was also a Wobbly (labor radicals who were persecuted by the government for refusing to give up their right to strike), had taken an extended hunting trip, and only returned after the war was done. While a relative while at the store had joked about the rise in the price of apples, saying, "What are they doing, shooting apples at the Germans?" when he was reported to the federal government by the store owner's wife. The store owner was so embarrassed by his shrew of a wife that he bribed the federal agents to leave my relative alone.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Joker
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31 May 2012, 9:35 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
That's absolutely correct. The notion that there was some sort of Islamic terrorist connection was entirely a fiction created by the Bush administration. Even that bloviating ignoramus Donald Trump has enough sense to know Saddam killed terrorists in his country.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Sadam's regime was terror itself. Don't take my word, just ask the Kurds....


I think you know I'm talking about terrorist organizations that threatened Americans, Israelis, and other other allies.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


If Iraq weren't part of your beloved Islamic world you would have screamed outrage over sadam's campaign against the Kurds. I guess anything goes as long as the perpetrators pray with their butts in the air.....


Beloved Islamic world? Ask ruveyn, and he'll tell you that I'm partial to German Lutherans.
Incidentally, I am in no way a defender of Saddam Husein, and the world is doubtlessly better now that he's gone. But considering the cost to our country regarding removing him from power, and that the Bush administration had to lie to get us into a second Gulf War, I think I and others are more than justified in being critical.
By the way, most Kurds are Muslims, too.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Quote:
Beloved Islamic world? Ask ruveyn, and he'll tell you that I'm partial to German Lutherans.

I didn't say that you were one but that you seem to have a disproportionate admiration or whatever it is for them.
Why ask Ruveyn? He hates both of us....

.


I don't have a disproportionate admiration for Muslims or the Middle East. It might be because I know what it is to be bullied and picked on that I find myself automatically taking the defense of whoever is the underdog. And in this case, Muslims in general have been taking a beating in this thread.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I'm gonna wrap up my part of it with this:
As a whole they are a group we shouldn't be turning our backs on even if they are US citizens.
If they are not US citizens with no specific reason to be here they need to be going home or somewhere else even if at bayonet point.
Islam is not a western friendly religion and their track record in the US and abroad speaks for itself.
That's my position on this and will continue to be.


You won't turn your back on Muslim Americans, because they're hostile to the U.S., huh?
If you recall, they had said that about Americans with leftist affiliations during the Red Scare. They also had said that about Japanese Americans during WWII, and my own German American forebears during WWI. That assumption to paint whole groups was wrong then, and it's wrong today regarding all Muslim Americans.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Very true during WW1 all german americans where viewed as the enemy and where forced to support America. If they didn't they where arrested and trialed for treason.


A hard time for my Dad's family. A couple of my great uncles had high tailed it to Canada, while my Grandfather, who was also a Wobbly (labor radicals who were persecuted by the government for refusing to give up their right to strike), had taken an extended hunting trip, and only returned after the war was done. While a relative while at the store had joked about the rise in the price of apples, saying, "What are they doing, shooting apples at the Germans?" when he was reported to the federal government by the store owner's wife. The store owner was so embarrassed by his shrew of a wife that he bribed the federal agents to leave my relative alone.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


It really is sad how America is often backwards on everything. In the early 90s when the IRA where bombing England and Britian many Irish Americans where arrested for being expected IRA terrorists with out proof. And where put in prison for unjust reasons.



edgewaters
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31 May 2012, 9:45 pm

Joker wrote:
It really is sad how America is often backwards on everything. In the early 90s when the IRA where bombing England and Britian many Irish Americans where arrested for being expected IRA terrorists with out proof. And where put in prison for unjust reasons.


Many? You could count them all on one hand, there was an encyclopedia of proof in each case, and it only happened because of diplomatic pressure.

The US was notoriously lax on allowing terrorist networks to operate within its borders and obtain funding and armaments freely, when it came to the IRA. Famously so. Few Americans were aware most of the Provo's terror was actually directed within Irish Catholic communities and not against the British, I guess.



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31 May 2012, 9:48 pm

edgewaters wrote:
Joker wrote:
It really is sad how America is often backwards on everything. In the early 90s when the IRA where bombing England and Britian many Irish Americans where arrested for being expected IRA terrorists with out proof. And where put in prison for unjust reasons.


Many? You could count them all on one hand, there was an encyclopedia of proof in each case, and it only happened because of diplomatic pressure.

The US was notoriously lax on allowing terrorist networks to operate within its borders and obtain funding and armaments freely, when it came to the IRA. Famously so. Few Americans were aware most of the Provo's terror was actually directed within Irish Catholic communities and not against the British, I guess.


That is true most of the famous memmbers of the IRA where not Catholic like me they where Proestant. Also England and Britian only have themself to blame for such a group. That is what 800 years of oppression can do to you.