Page 1 of 2 [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Callista
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Feb 2006
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 10,775
Location: Ohio, USA

12 May 2012, 11:04 pm

Recognizing faces is not something that all autistic people have trouble with. I do, because I have prosopagnosia, but many autistic people can recognize faces just fine--including many profoundly autistic people with such obvious traits that they had a diagnosis and a therapist by the age of three.

The Verbal/Performance IQ subscore split is common among those with Asperger's and non-verbal learning disability.

Face-blindness is not the same thing as autism...

It's odd that they assume that if you can say "hello" at the right time you can't have AS. You'd have to be rather severely autistic not to know what "hello" meant. In fact, it's likely you'd have to be diagnosed with classic autism because such problems with even basic conversation would indicate language/communication problems more severe than anything you could call Asperger's. Asperger's can be quite severe, of course, but as it's defined now, there can't be significant language/communication problems. If there are, you push the diagnosis into PDD-NOS or classic autism.

If you have real problems in your life that you need help with, then yes, pursue a diagnosis of some sort. It doesn't have to be AS. It doesn't have to be official. It just has to get you in the door.

If you just need a diagnosis to tell you that you are not, in fact, a lazy bum who refuses to use his obvious potential, then you can assure yourself that you aren't one. The fact that you're looking for answers to begin with--especially by going to a doctor who might diagnose you with a neurological condition, something which most people consider undesirable--says to me that you do care, probably deeply, about where your problems are coming from and how to solve them. Whatever is holding you back, I hope you find answers and I hope you find solutions.

By the way: Pizza delivery is honest work. Don't be ashamed of that. People in the service industry do some of the hardest jobs in the country, and if you can keep a job like that without burning out in a week, you're stronger than most of us.


_________________
Reports from a Resident Alien:
http://chaoticidealism.livejournal.com

Autism Memorial:
http://autism-memorial.livejournal.com


NeueZiel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Apr 2012
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,330
Location: Kapustin Yar

13 May 2012, 12:05 am

I can probably recognize certain facial expressions but have very bad motor skills that have prevented from functioning in work environments, have problems with eye contact, very obsessive in the typical "aspie" fashion, an absolute inability to function socially in most environments, trouble expressing my own needs or even knowing them etc. Hell, for my doctor I had to write a letter to him explaining stuff just because I had trouble verbalizing. He asked me a few very general questions but most of his time was spent asking me and my mom questions, observing me and my behavior, I had a Yefim Gordon book on Mig 23s clutched close to my chest because it made me feel safe and was wearing an old hoodie in hot southern weather because I like to hide in it. He deducted from that, speaking to me alone, then other stuff past diagnoses and incidents that I at least had aspergers, probably OCD to some degree too.

Christ, you guys have some bad, non-critical thinking doctors if they just send you to do a test. A person could easily lie or fabricate information, a doctor should base his diagnosis off of much more. That just sounds horrible. Aspergers, like HFA is truly subjective, he even admitted I lacked a one or two elements but that it wasn't something you couldn't pigeon hole. I feel really sorry for you guys, I had a similar doctor when I was processed out of the navy who basically gave me a quizzie to fill out and I put in all the worst parts just to make my condition sound worse so I could get out faster (I was miserable as hell and totally unable to function anyway, beyond any kind of laziness, I TRIED and my RDCs said that). Mr. big doctor was like "oh yeah, you def. have borderline, schizo, etc..I'm going to have you sent home immediately, you're a threat to yourself and others."


What I'm trying to say is those tests are stupid and I can't believe they made you take something like that.



tall-p
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Dec 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,155

13 May 2012, 12:31 am

FasHawks8 wrote:
tall-p wrote:
Welll an Asperger's diagnosis has an element of subjectivity... it seems to me. So another official diagnoser might have a different take on you. Have you taken the online tests?

Yes, and they all indicate Asperger's.

Well, that works for me. I am old, and I won't ever get a diagnosis. I mentioned to a couple of people that I had scored high on the Aspie tests... they snorted. One of the snorters was my daughter haha. BUT the results make total sense to me. They just don't see me... they don't get it. That is how life is too. We expect other people to see us... but they don't. Connecting is rare. If you want to get along with other people, listen to what they say. Remember as best you can their stories. Nod and say that, "I hear you." Or, "I understand." ... and only tell your story to people of the opposite sex that put their arms around you.

The problem with psychologists and psychiatrists is that they disagree with one another. They are different "schools." Their doctoring is more of an art than a science. They are just trying to figure out what is going on here too. But many of them make their livings teaching you their esoteric vocabulary, and/or prescribing medications. You are THEIR mealticket. And imho once you start letting them make you feel better, they will never let you go.

Therapists are NEVER Aspies, because Aspies just aren't into other people's stories. Certainly not in they way NTs are. That is one of our biggest differences from NTs. It is almost impossible to fake the blindness, the non-interest, we share in the ins and outs of other people's feelings. But NTs pick up on instantly, intuitivlty, and non-verbally, and they know that we don't get it. NT's are naturals at knowing how others are feeling, and what is going on with them right now. It's like they have a whole other super power. They actually think about, and know about a world we don't experience. It's a way of talking, and sharing, that is always going on, and we are pretty much oblivious to it. We are pretty boring to them.


_________________
Everything is falling.


HK416N
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 13 Aug 2011
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 126
Location: Mo i Rana

13 May 2012, 12:58 am

yes seek nother dr.. this 1 sucks
prolly need to seek for awhile.. avoid the money drs offices.. they just take ur money and then tell u they dont know s**t
best is methinks to know for yerself that yer aspie.. but wth is with the drs who get money and then sit and talk crap
yer smart.. is more difficult.. u prolly can show like normal and they see only dat
keep figthtin, u deserve it



FasHawks8
Butterfly
Butterfly

User avatar

Joined: 9 May 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 13

13 May 2012, 1:00 am

Callista wrote:
The Verbal/Performance IQ subscore split is common among those with Asperger's and non-verbal learning disability.

Verbal being higher, correct?

By the way: Pizza delivery is honest work. Don't be ashamed of that. People in the service industry do some of the hardest jobs in the country, and if you can keep a job like that without burning out in a week, you're stronger than most of us.


Thank you! It's not a rewarding job by any means - but it does have advantages or folks like us. If we are busy I get to spend most of the shift by myself, and the conversations with customers follow a consistent script. Plus I can easily do the math in my head so keeping track of tips throughout the day is easy.



Blownmind
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2012
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 825
Location: Norway

13 May 2012, 10:50 am

FasHawks8 wrote:
Mostly because I was able to do well on facial recognition tests. Recognizing facial expressions and remembering names that went along with faces. I scored average, neurotypically speaking, on these. I also scored very high on verbal intel but slightly above avg on visual intelligence. Both my and my mom's self-questionnare scored as 'likely' aspie.


I feel I should give you my testscores from online tests.
Quote:
Summary of testscores(indicating Aspergers):
8 = MacLean Screening Instrument for BPD
13 = HAD-scale(Anxiety)
15 = HAD-scale(Depression)
17 = Yale-Brown Obsessive-Compulsive Scale
42 = The Autism Spectrum Quotient test (of max 50)
7 = Empathy Quotient (of max 80)
155 = Ritvo Autism Asperger Diagnostic Scale-Revised (RAADS-R)
22 = Autism Spectrum Screening Questionnaire (ASSQ)
138 = IQ (on a random online test)
148 = OAQ-G2 (You show high alexithymic traits)
133 = Aspie-quiz Asperger (of max 200)
56 = Aspie-quiz Neurotypical (of max 200)

Summary of testscores(indicating Neurotypical):
32 = Systemizing Quotient (of max 80)
29 = Simon Baron-Cohen Eye Expression Test (of max 36)

As you can see, some of the tests I've taken indicate I dont have Aspergers.

The "Simon Baron-Cohen Eye Expression" test is somewhat similar to facial expressions, and I wouldn't give it much credit. A written test is by no means the correct way to evaluate our ability to recognize facial expressions. Aspergers with higher than normal IQ does well on tests, and are able to "act" normal, which is unfortunate when taking tests that are supposed to reveal "flaws"("" to avoid beeing flamed :D ). This is a part of Aspergers, and the so-called experts should know this. NTs would do the "eye" test with intuition and the feel they got from eye expressions. When I took it, I analyzed the expression, read the answers, eliminated the answers I saw as less likely to be correct, and guessed on many. Those tests are flawed in regards to real life. Disregard them.


_________________
AQ: 42/50 || SQ: 32/80 || IQ(RPM): 138 || IRI-empathytest(PT/EC/FS/PD): 10(-7)/16(-3)/19(+3)/19(+10) || Alexithymia: 148/185 || Aspie-quiz: AS 133/200, NT 56/200


Callista
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Feb 2006
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 10,775
Location: Ohio, USA

13 May 2012, 11:46 am

FasHawks8 wrote:
Callista wrote:
The Verbal/Performance IQ subscore split is common among those with Asperger's and non-verbal learning disability.

Verbal being higher, correct?
Yes, especially with NVLD. There are people who have gotten really insane subscore gaps, like 150 Verbal/70 Performance. With those who have more pronounced speech/language issues (usually diagnosed classic autism) the gap can run the other way, with high Performance, low Verbal. Sometimes, when you use alternative IQ tests like Raven's Progressive Matrices to test those people, they can get an unexpectedly high score for non-verbal reasoning, leading me to conclude that IQ tests aren't nearly as valid for autistic people as the professionals seem to think. Those tests were normed on the assumption that everybody is on pretty much the same developmental schedule, only faster or slower; but that assumption doesn't hold true for autistics. Atypical development always throws off IQ tests like that, and the more unusual it is, the less valid the test.

When it comes to IQ tests, the best use you can make of them is probably to get the full report on how you did on each subtest. Even autistic people who have little or no Verbal/Performance gap will often have very scattered scores on their subtests. Mine range from the 40th percentile to the 99th, which is a pretty big range; and the unusually high or low scores are more the rule than the exception. I have only about a 10-point gap (Verbal higher), though it was bigger when I was a child, at least 20 points if not more if I recall correctly.

The overall IQ won't help you much, but if you can get a peek at those subscores you can figure out where you are very weak and where you are very strong. I'm willing to bet you probably hit the ceiling on the arithmetic subtest, for example, if you keep track of tips in your head throughout a day at work.


_________________
Reports from a Resident Alien:
http://chaoticidealism.livejournal.com

Autism Memorial:
http://autism-memorial.livejournal.com


FasHawks8
Butterfly
Butterfly

User avatar

Joined: 9 May 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 13

14 May 2012, 1:58 pm

Blownmind wrote:
NTs would do the "eye" test with intuition and the feel they got from eye expressions. When I took it, I analyzed the expression, read the answers, eliminated the answers I saw as less likely to be correct, and guessed on many. Those tests are flawed in regards to real life. Disregard them.


I'm starting to think the same thing myself, thanks.



Ataraxis
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 1 May 2012
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 39
Location: North Idaho

14 May 2012, 9:47 pm

Callista wrote:
If you have real problems in your life that you need help with, then yes, pursue a diagnosis of some sort. It doesn't have to be AS. It doesn't have to be official. It just has to get you in the door.

If you just need a diagnosis to tell you that you are not, in fact, a lazy bum who refuses to use his obvious potential, then you can assure yourself that you aren't one. The fact that you're looking for answers to begin with--especially by going to a doctor who might diagnose you with a neurological condition, something which most people consider undesirable--says to me that you do care, probably deeply, about where your problems are coming from and how to solve them. Whatever is holding you back, I hope you find answers and I hope you find solutions.


It amazes me that even on this board there are so many people who immediately jump up and say "why do you even want an actual diagnosis?". I've only been here a couple weeks and have seen that notion expressed in quite a few threads. It almost sounds to me like they feel threatened because since they don't have one, why should anyone else feel the need? I just wanted to say thank you to Callista, you seem to be a pretty awesome person. :D


_________________
Your Aspie score: 181 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 40 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie
INTJ
What's the difference between ignorance and apathy? I don't know and I don't care.


Rascal77s
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Nov 2011
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,725

14 May 2012, 9:57 pm

Take my advice Fas, stop dwelling on it and schedule the appointment. You might also consider seeing a Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW) for an evaluation.

*edit* Damn typos.



hyperlexian
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Age: 51
Gender: Female
Posts: 22,023
Location: with bucephalus

14 May 2012, 11:29 pm

FasHawks8 wrote:
After one initial meeting and 1.5 hours of testing, a neuropsychologist has told me he does not think I have Asperger's. For the last year or so I have been convinced that I do, and so have my girlfriend and my mom. I am curious how many people out there sought out a second diagnosis in a similar situation.
I could read when I was 3.5 years old, have a 138 IQ, but I am 32 years old and still deliver pizzas. A clinical psychologist suggested I look into Asperger's to see if it was a possibility. After first denying it was possible, I gradually became convinced that this explained most/all of my deficiences and struggles in life. My girlfriend and mom took a similar path but were equally convinced. So my question is this - is it possible I have latched on to the possibility of having this just to explain/justify my problems in life? I honestly believe that I have Asperger's. But if a professional has determined that I do not, is it crazy to continue believing this? Should I just let go and move on with my life?

it can't hurt. it took a full day of testing before i had a definitive answer. sometimes AD(H)D with social anxiety can seem similar too, so you might want to rule those out.


_________________
on a break, so if you need assistance please contact another moderator from this list:
viewtopic.php?t=391105


Blownmind
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2012
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 825
Location: Norway

15 May 2012, 1:03 am

FasHawks8 wrote:
Blownmind wrote:
NTs would do the "eye" test with intuition and the feel they got from eye expressions. When I took it, I analyzed the expression, read the answers, eliminated the answers I saw as less likely to be correct, and guessed on many. Those tests are flawed in regards to real life. Disregard them.
I'm starting to think the same thing myself, thanks.

You're welcome. :)

FasHawks8 wrote:
After one initial meeting and 1.5 hours of testing, a neuropsychologist has told me he does not think I have Asperger's. For the last year or so I have been convinced that I do, and so have my girlfriend and my mom. I am curious how many people out there sought out a second diagnosis in a similar situation.
I have gone to one psychologist for 10 sessions or so, didn't even think of Aspergers. Before that I saw a doctor, diagnosed me with social anxiety and depression. After some years I stumbled upon personality types(MBTI) and later after some research, it lead me to Aspergers. I saw someone new, asked about Aspergers, I have now waited 4 months before I got a diagnosis, and I still have to wait 2 more months before they can decide if I should be working or not.

My point is; Dont settle for years like I did. I spent 2 years "content" with my diagnosis. Go :arrow: get a second opinion.


_________________
AQ: 42/50 || SQ: 32/80 || IQ(RPM): 138 || IRI-empathytest(PT/EC/FS/PD): 10(-7)/16(-3)/19(+3)/19(+10) || Alexithymia: 148/185 || Aspie-quiz: AS 133/200, NT 56/200


FasHawks8
Butterfly
Butterfly

User avatar

Joined: 9 May 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 13

15 May 2012, 1:05 am

Rascal77s wrote:
Take my advice Fas, stop dwelling on it and schedule the appointment. You might also consider seeing a Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW) for an evaluation.

*edit* Damn typos.


It was actually a LCSW who suggested it initially, but she was obviously not qualified to medically diagnose it.



Rascal77s
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Nov 2011
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,725

15 May 2012, 1:25 am

FasHawks8 wrote:
Rascal77s wrote:
Take my advice Fas, stop dwelling on it and schedule the appointment. You might also consider seeing a Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW) for an evaluation.

*edit* Damn typos.


It was actually a LCSW who suggested it initially, but she was obviously not qualified to medically diagnose it.

Technically she should be qualified to make a DX but she might not feel she knows enough about AS.