Be careful. I was wrongly diagnosed with AS as a kid.
23 May 2012, 2:23 pm
legomyego wrote:
careful with the adderall...can be great in the start...and a nightmare in the end.
Of course mileage varies....but be weary.
Fact:
Anyone regardless of adhd add nt or aspergers aderral will increase productivity.
It's a stimulant...and no matter who you are it will be stimulating to the mind/body.
Course there is the 1%'rs (probably billionairs.....{bad joke]) who will fall asleep on this stuff..........
But generally speaking stimulants act as their name insinuates.
There is a reason college kids buy adderall and the rest of the bunch to study...because it works regardless of your mental diagnosis/state.
On the downside....if your mental state is one of anxiety/paranoia and or delusion....it will increase these factors...
Hitler was given stimulants....look at those results....terrible out come but nobody can argue that he was not productive...though in a destructive way.
Of course mileage varies....but be weary.
Fact:
Anyone regardless of adhd add nt or aspergers aderral will increase productivity.
It's a stimulant...and no matter who you are it will be stimulating to the mind/body.
Course there is the 1%'rs (probably billionairs.....{bad joke]) who will fall asleep on this stuff..........
But generally speaking stimulants act as their name insinuates.
There is a reason college kids buy adderall and the rest of the bunch to study...because it works regardless of your mental diagnosis/state.
On the downside....if your mental state is one of anxiety/paranoia and or delusion....it will increase these factors...
Hitler was given stimulants....look at those results....terrible out come but nobody can argue that he was not productive...though in a destructive way.
They tried me on Adderall due to excessive sleeping (diagnosed with "idiopathic" hypersomnia 2-3 years ago). I was on it for about 6 months. They were astoundingly productive months compared to the rest of my life, and my obsession with organizing and categorizing came out with a whirl. I've been diagnosed with an anxiety disorder and I would say that my anxiety did increase a little, but I was actually awake so I had the energy to get things done that I would have been stressing over had I been without the medication. However, I moved and didn't get the prescription refilled, and that combined with a few other situational/financial problems sent me into the throes of deep depression very quickly, for a long time.
I decided to ditch the Adderall because I have a highly addictive personality and I shouldn't be around drugs like that, even if they help me to get my life in order initially. Towards the end I had even started upping the dose because it was within the levels that the doctor said were OK, even though I knew it probably wasn't healthy for ME personally. It was just great to be able to think so clearly and have everything orderly. I wish I remembered what the dosage was...
23 May 2012, 2:30 pm
uranium23567 wrote:
but there is two CORE things that I have NO problem with:
reading peoples facial expressions
picking up on metaphors in conversation, something i'm actually VERY good at
so I don't know. Maybe i'm just somewhere imbetween. falling in another diagnosis hole like I do with everything else
reading peoples facial expressions
picking up on metaphors in conversation, something i'm actually VERY good at
so I don't know. Maybe i'm just somewhere imbetween. falling in another diagnosis hole like I do with everything else
IMO replace CORE with STEREOTYPICAL and you'll be correct. These issues are not diagnostic criteria itself, but are parts of larger diagnostic criteria.
23 May 2012, 8:27 pm
My father was an undiagnosed Aspie, I was very afraid of him as a child then realised as I got older something was terribly wrong with his views of the world and other people. He was murdered when I was 19 in a dispute with other homeless alcoholics he was 'living' with. My son has a very similar personality, and after 5 years of trying to get help for him he finally got a diagnosis of Asperger's, aged 9. I didn't know what it was, but when I started researching, it felt like someone had written books on him. He's doing okay at school, although now he's in year 10 I think he's falling behind as the teachers want to grade him on what he hands in, not just test him on what he's learnt and he doesn't see the point. But he has come a long way in learning about other peoples feelings and perspectives. I feel very sad my father never had that opportunity and his life became what it was - no home, no family who would share his life, no friends.
However, my youngest son who had an early diagnosis of ADHD is now being assessed for Asperger's. It wasn't obvious as his extra energy, fighting etc overshadowed everything else for several years. Now he is almost 13 and we are seeing so many Aspie traits in him, they just weren't glaringly obvious like his older brother. I don't think there are more Aspie's out there, it's just being recognised more readily.
My father was an intelligent man who didn't fit in, so was sent out with the school gardener everyday until he was old enough to leave school, instead of getting an education
My boys are being helped to find ways to get things done on a regular basis, even if it's not perfect.
23 May 2012, 9:48 pm
Abbott wrote:
My father was an undiagnosed Aspie, I was very afraid of him as a child then realised as I got older something was terribly wrong with his views of the world and other people. He was murdered when I was 19 in a dispute with other homeless alcoholics he was 'living' with. My son has a very similar personality, and after 5 years of trying to get help for him he finally got a diagnosis of Asperger's, aged 9. I didn't know what it was, but when I started researching, it felt like someone had written books on him. He's doing okay at school, although now he's in year 10 I think he's falling behind as the teachers want to grade him on what he hands in, not just test him on what he's learnt and he doesn't see the point. But he has come a long way in learning about other peoples feelings and perspectives. I feel very sad my father never had that opportunity and his life became what it was - no home, no family who would share his life, no friends.
However, my youngest son who had an early diagnosis of ADHD is now being assessed for Asperger's. It wasn't obvious as his extra energy, fighting etc overshadowed everything else for several years. Now he is almost 13 and we are seeing so many Aspie traits in him, they just weren't glaringly obvious like his older brother. I don't think there are more Aspie's out there, it's just being recognised more readily.
My father was an intelligent man who didn't fit in, so was sent out with the school gardener everyday until he was old enough to leave school, instead of getting an education
My boys are being helped to find ways to get things done on a regular basis, even if it's not perfect.
However, my youngest son who had an early diagnosis of ADHD is now being assessed for Asperger's. It wasn't obvious as his extra energy, fighting etc overshadowed everything else for several years. Now he is almost 13 and we are seeing so many Aspie traits in him, they just weren't glaringly obvious like his older brother. I don't think there are more Aspie's out there, it's just being recognised more readily.
My father was an intelligent man who didn't fit in, so was sent out with the school gardener everyday until he was old enough to leave school, instead of getting an education
My boys are being helped to find ways to get things done on a regular basis, even if it's not perfect.
Good for you! I'm sad that my parents didn't recognize that something was abnormal with me. If they had I think I would have had an easier time as a child (which usually translates into being better equipped to deal with adult life).
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24 May 2012, 12:50 pm
Callista wrote:
Adderall or Ritalin don't "take away" your energy though. They're stimulants, as has been mentioned--they give you more energy, if anything. The reason they make you less hyperactive is that they give you more energy up in your head, and you can control yourself better, control your thoughts better. I stim less when I'm on Concerta, because I don't have to move as much to be able to think more clearly. It gives me more control--not less energy. The only time it really makes me "zombie out" is when I take too much of it. That intensifies the problems I have starting movements, and causes me to go pretty much catatonic for a half-hour or so after the dose. Naturally I refuse to take any more than 37 mg extended release, or 10 mg at a time normally, because of that effect. Dosing has to be carefully regulated; otherwise you get undesirable effects. Sometimes doctors don't realize that a higher dose is not necessarily a good thing, and that lowering the dose is an option too.
What does give me less energy is when I'm on any sort of neuroleptic--including Risperdal, which is the only medication approved for autism. That doesn't just make it harder to start movements, like a too-high dose of methylphenidate does. It actually makes it harder to think, to plan. It makes my ADHD traits worse. I probably couldn't have a meltdown on it if I wanted to (which is the point--neuroleptics for autism are usually prescribed for meltdowns)--but I also couldn't get anything done, and would likely be unable to live on my own, because of how difficult that is for me already and how much more impairment I experience on neuroleptics.
For the record, my diagnosis is ADHD-Inattentive, either Asperger's or PDD-NOS depending on which doctor you ask, and recurrent depression. (They're trying to pin Tourette's, PTSD, and narcolepsy on me too, but I know better than that--all those traits are subclinical and not worth diagnosis.)
What does give me less energy is when I'm on any sort of neuroleptic--including Risperdal, which is the only medication approved for autism. That doesn't just make it harder to start movements, like a too-high dose of methylphenidate does. It actually makes it harder to think, to plan. It makes my ADHD traits worse. I probably couldn't have a meltdown on it if I wanted to (which is the point--neuroleptics for autism are usually prescribed for meltdowns)--but I also couldn't get anything done, and would likely be unable to live on my own, because of how difficult that is for me already and how much more impairment I experience on neuroleptics.
For the record, my diagnosis is ADHD-Inattentive, either Asperger's or PDD-NOS depending on which doctor you ask, and recurrent depression. (They're trying to pin Tourette's, PTSD, and narcolepsy on me too, but I know better than that--all those traits are subclinical and not worth diagnosis.)
Well don't take this as medical advice or knowledge of any kind as it's just personal experience. But I have done adderall more than once, I find it to be a great drug. But being the sometimes self destructive person I am I once did a bit much over the period of 4 days starting with 60mg the first evening kind of lost track of how much I ended up taking in all over that period, considering i was not sleeping either.
So I got to experience the zombied out thing, but that was having too much (because I was being a dumb ass and the people I was with well crap I don't even want to know what they were trying to do to me encouraging me to join in their drug abuse and then when it went overboard they just wanted to dump me once my money was gone. screwed up story I wont bore you all with the detailed version) So anyways if one experiences being zombied out when prescribed adderall that is probably more of an indication you're taking too much for your body not necessarily that adderall is supposed to 'zombie' you out. I can see how it would be helpful and I would certainly not protest if a doctor thought I should be prescribed some, I might protest about taking it every day however...
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24 May 2012, 1:32 pm
It does help to take it daily because of how things can snowball if you don't stay organized if you have ADHD. You forget to take the medication, your organization starts getting tattered round the edges; then you start falling behind and in the chaos you probably forget another dose, and that makes it worse gradually but inevitably...
The nice thing about most stimulants used for ADHD is that they are not addictive; your body doesn't really change much in response to the substance's presence. Caffeine is more addictive.
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24 May 2012, 3:52 pm
Callista wrote:
It does help to take it daily because of how things can snowball if you don't stay organized if you have ADHD. You forget to take the medication, your organization starts getting tattered round the edges; then you start falling behind and in the chaos you probably forget another dose, and that makes it worse gradually but inevitably...
The nice thing about most stimulants used for ADHD is that they are not addictive; your body doesn't really change much in response to the substance's presence. Caffeine is more addictive.
The nice thing about most stimulants used for ADHD is that they are not addictive; your body doesn't really change much in response to the substance's presence. Caffeine is more addictive.
I don't have ADHD but I can see why for someone who does it would be better to take it more regularly, I mean I imagine its not an extreme dose like 60mg. Also I don't know if I'd say stimulants for ADHD aren't addictive, I mean from my experience I can see how they could be addictive to some people and I find it to have a much stronger effect than caffeine. I mean if I was offered a cup of coffee or adderall I think I'd take the adderall.
Do you mean caffeine is more addictive for people with ADHD? or generally more addictive then the stimulants used in general. My last therapist had ADHD and certainly liked his coffee...though he was also a recovered alcoholic so he might have switched up the alcohol with caffeine. Which I imagine for him is a better choice then drinking alcohol.
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24 May 2012, 4:24 pm
I feel confident phrasing it like this: stimulants for ADHD are not causing addiction if used in the doses that are usually prescribed for medical reasons (whereas abusing stimulants can not only lead to addiction but, in the case of at least some stimulants, also to a sudden death) and have been shown to reduce the risk for developing addictions in general (that increased risk that is associated with ADHD) in teens/people with ADHD who are on them.
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24 May 2012, 4:38 pm
Sora wrote:
I feel confident phrasing it like this: stimulants for ADHD are not causing addiction if used in the doses that are usually prescribed for medical reasons (whereas abusing stimulants can not only lead to addiction but, in the case of at least some stimulants, also to a sudden death) and have been shown to reduce the risk for developing addictions in general (that increased risk that is associated with ADHD) in teens/people with ADHD who are on them.
whether one is abusing a drug, self medicating with it or was prescribed it....does not change the effects of they drug, if it causes physical dependency it can regardless of why you are using it. The assumption that stimulants cannot cause addiction, unless you are abusing them is dangerous in my opinion it can and does. I mean I guess its not just the adderall that would cause the addiction but rather ones genetic predisposition for addiction as well.
But then I guess drug abuse has to be defined as well.....drug abuse to me is failing to use moderation.
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24 May 2012, 5:31 pm
Sweetleaf wrote:
I don't have ADHD but I can see why for someone who does it would be better to take it more regularly, I mean I imagine its not an extreme dose like 60mg. Also I don't know if I'd say stimulants for ADHD aren't addictive, I mean from my experience I can see how they could be addictive to some people and I find it to have a much stronger effect than caffeine. I mean if I was offered a cup of coffee or adderall I think I'd take the adderall.
Like any medication, they can be psychologically addictive: You can feel like you need them, even though you wouldn't go through withdrawal if you stopped taking them. It's the same sort of thing that leads to, for example, a gambling addiction. But they're not physically addictive--which is a good thing for me currently because the government has tangled up my Medicaid paperwork yet again and I can't pay for stimulants. While my schoolwork has suffered rather badly, at least I'm not going through withdrawal symptoms too.Quote:
Do you mean caffeine is more addictive for people with ADHD? or generally more addictive then the stimulants used in general. My last therapist had ADHD and certainly liked his coffee...though he was also a recovered alcoholic so he might have switched up the alcohol with caffeine. Which I imagine for him is a better choice then drinking alcohol.
Caffeine is physically addictive; drinking it regularly produces a tolerance whether you have ADHD or not. You get used to having it in your system, so that after a while, without it you get withdrawal headaches, tiredness, irritability, that kind of thing. You can drink it on weekdays and not on weekeneds to avoid building up a tolerance. The reason we don't consider caffeine addiction to be a problem like alcohol or nicotine addiction is that drinking coffee in moderation doesn't damage you physically, and that the mild "high" from caffeine doesn't impair your self-control or your ability to work and go about your day quite normally. That, and it's a very easy physical addiction to break: For most people, coming off caffeine involves nothing more than three days of tension headaches that can be treated with acetaminophen.
I'm very fond of coffee--I like it for the caffeine and for the taste. When I take stimulants for ADHD at the proper dose, it feels very much like a proper cup of coffee, only without the physical jitters. Of course, when I'm on prescription stimulants, I have to switch to decaf. Doubling up on stimulants like that just makes you nervous for no good reason.
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24 May 2012, 6:02 pm
Callista wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I don't have ADHD but I can see why for someone who does it would be better to take it more regularly, I mean I imagine its not an extreme dose like 60mg. Also I don't know if I'd say stimulants for ADHD aren't addictive, I mean from my experience I can see how they could be addictive to some people and I find it to have a much stronger effect than caffeine. I mean if I was offered a cup of coffee or adderall I think I'd take the adderall.
Like any medication, they can be psychologically addictive: You can feel like you need them, even though you wouldn't go through withdrawal if you stopped taking them. It's the same sort of thing that leads to, for example, a gambling addiction. But they're not physically addictive--which is a good thing for me currently because the government has tangled up my Medicaid paperwork yet again and I can't pay for stimulants. While my schoolwork has suffered rather badly, at least I'm not going through withdrawal symptoms too.Well I don't know what exactly you were prescribed, but I don't know that adderall is not physically addicting in some ways. Not saying anyone who takes it would get addicted but I was pretty sure adderall did have the potential for a more physiological addiction. But either way its good if you don't find them addictive. I mean for instance alcohol is addictive yet I have not developed an addiction to it, Ive been concerned I have but then I go without and don't get any sort of withdrawls which if I was a true addict I'd get. Sorry about your school work suffering though...and I hope you are able to get back to being able to afford them.
Quote:
Do you mean caffeine is more addictive for people with ADHD? or generally more addictive then the stimulants used in general. My last therapist had ADHD and certainly liked his coffee...though he was also a recovered alcoholic so he might have switched up the alcohol with caffeine. Which I imagine for him is a better choice then drinking alcohol.
Caffeine is physically addictive; drinking it regularly produces a tolerance whether you have ADHD or not. You get used to having it in your system, so that after a while, without it you get withdrawal headaches, tiredness, irritability, that kind of thing. You can drink it on weekdays and not on weekeneds to avoid building up a tolerance. The reason we don't consider caffeine addiction to be a problem like alcohol or nicotine addiction is that drinking coffee in moderation doesn't damage you physically, and that the mild "high" from caffeine doesn't impair your self-control or your ability to work and go about your day quite normally. That, and it's a very easy physical addiction to break: For most people, coming off caffeine involves nothing more than three days of tension headaches that can be treated with acetaminophen. Yeah that makes sense, however some people do not use caffeine and moderation and have suffered death and other health issues because of it. I feel a caffeine addiction could be as serious as an alcohol addiction, but that sort of caffeine addiction is more rare I think. I mean I'd say I have a moderate caffine addiction because if I go too long without it I get minor withdrawls, but acetaminophen does not work caffeine does so its kind of a catch 22 now. But I doubt I drink enough caffeine to do too much damage, though it probably does not help though since my anxiety and ptsd tends to have me on edge which already increases my heart rate. But of course caffeine is a stimulant and considering my low energy it helps some with getting me up and about.
I'm very fond of coffee--I like it for the caffeine and for the taste. When I take stimulants for ADHD at the proper dose, it feels very much like a proper cup of coffee, only without the physical jitters. Of course, when I'm on prescription stimulants, I have to switch to decaf. Doubling up on stimulants like that just makes you nervous for no good reason.
Interesting the times I have tried adderall I find it much less jittery than caffeine as well...except when I was taking too much, but obviously that's more my fault than the adderalls for taking so much. At the time though I did not know anything about adderall I was told it was like speed and that 2 of what turned out to be 30mg each was enough for a good high...don't think I needed that much one pill probably would have been quite fine.
Note* I do not condone that behavior but no sense in lying about my experiences.
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24 May 2012, 6:40 pm
Sweetleaf wrote:
whether one is abusing a drug, self medicating with it or was prescribed it....does not change the effects of they drug, if it causes physical dependency it can regardless of why you are using it.
Sure, you are right but I was talking about the dosage and the frequency by which stimulants are used (which should be according to the medical prescription of a professional who knows what they're doing and a patient who knows what they're doing), not about why they are taken.
Stimulants used in monitored doses that are within the typical/common range for treating ADHD aren't addictive, as in that there's no withdrawal, no physical "desire" for it, no inability to (constantly) forget when to take it/to take it at all and there really shouldn't be any euphoric or fuzzy feelings or an unnatural calmness.
I wouldn't think of upping my dose of 20mg methylphenidate that I can take twice or thrice a day (at the moment however, it's again too expensive for me to take at all sometimes, urgh) and if I wouldn't plan ahead, I'd forget it (which sucks because I'm very sensitive to the sudden on/off effect).
But I wouldn't know first-hand about the immediate and any possible long-term effects and changes of swallowing whatever amount (of either methylphenidate or the mentioned adderall which is different from methylphenidate, if I remember correctly) at whatever random and uncontrolled frequency. I can't help but think that this would be like a mixture of randomly misusing insulin or ASS.
I'm not saying that stimulants shouldn't be treated with care as I think that they and most other medications totally require monitoring either by a professional, by yourself or someone else who is able to do that job physically and mentally. Better be safe than sorry about these things.
Wow, Sweetleaf, your post kept me up until now!
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24 May 2012, 7:25 pm
Sora wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
whether one is abusing a drug, self medicating with it or was prescribed it....does not change the effects of they drug, if it causes physical dependency it can regardless of why you are using it.
Sure, you are right but I was talking about the dosage and the frequency by which stimulants are used (which should be according to the medical prescription of a professional who knows what they're doing and a patient who knows what they're doing), not about why they are taken.
Stimulants used in monitored doses that are within the typical/common range for treating ADHD aren't addictive, as in that there's no withdrawal, no physical "desire" for it, no inability to (constantly) forget when to take it/to take it at all and there really shouldn't be any euphoric or fuzzy feelings or an unnatural calmness.
I wouldn't think of upping my dose of 20mg methylphenidate that I can take twice or thrice a day (at the moment however, it's again too expensive for me to take at all sometimes, urgh) and if I wouldn't plan ahead, I'd forget it (which sucks because I'm very sensitive to the sudden on/off effect).
But I wouldn't know first-hand about the immediate and any possible long-term effects and changes of swallowing whatever amount (of either methylphenidate or the mentioned adderall which is different from methylphenidate, if I remember correctly) at whatever random and uncontrolled frequency. I can't help but think that this would be like a mixture of randomly misusing insulin or ASS.
I'm not saying that stimulants shouldn't be treated with care as I think that they and most other medications totally require monitoring either by a professional, by yourself or someone else who is able to do that job physically and mentally. Better be safe than sorry about these things.
Wow, Sweetleaf, your post kept me up until now!
It is very possible Methylphenidate and Adderall are different, I really only know anything about the latter...though I would imagine the one your on is also a stimulant. But yeah the monitored dose probably helps, I am just not sure that would totally prevent the risk of addiction for everyone who takes it, though that's more with the adderall as I say I don't know much about the other.
But yeah I agree, it is better safe than sorry and its clear to me you think they should be treated with care, and that is a good thing. I was just thinking it would be dangerous to imply stimulants cannot be addictive, but that's not what you were implying. Anyways I think its good to use a medication to help with symptoms but just keep in mind what works for one individual might not work for another. But no I just have kind of a special intrest in drugs and what they do and all that so I'm mostly just curious I certainly don't judge people for using meds.
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