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Rocky
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29 May 2012, 2:17 am

roronoa79 wrote:
Rocky wrote:
My guess is that religion came about in order to explain things about reality we did not know at that point. Now that we know so much about the physical universe, there is less and less left to explain by attributing it to a god. This is known as the "god of the gaps" model.


That is usually my explanation for how religion came to be.
To your second point: What we will do when we reach the limit of what science, technology, and human sensation can reveal to us?


I would rather be without an explanation for everything than the wrong explanation. What we will do is keep trying. Some scientists may give up, but there will always be other scientists who do not. On the other hand, I don't think we will ever know everything there is to know. There will always be room for a "god of the gaps."


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Last edited by Rocky on 30 May 2012, 2:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

YippySkippy
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29 May 2012, 10:27 am

The Bible says something like, "All knowledge shall pass away."
To me, this is saying that not only will the Earth and even the universe cease to exist, but also math and the physical laws that govern our reality. All that we know is but an invention of God.
(I am not arguing that the Bible is correct in this or any matter. I'm just trying to present what I perceive to be the Judeo/Christian perspective in this matter. I am personally agnostic.)



AngelRho
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29 May 2012, 11:09 am

YippySkippy wrote:
The Bible says something like, "All knowledge shall pass away."
To me, this is saying that not only will the Earth and even the universe cease to exist, but also math and the physical laws that govern our reality. All that we know is but an invention of God.
(I am not arguing that the Bible is correct in this or any matter. I'm just trying to present what I perceive to be the Judeo/Christian perspective in this matter. I am personally agnostic.)

No. Knowledge is knowledge. I read that to mean our current understanding, as in we're more in tune with what God intended in the first place and everything we argue about here, the things we THINK we know will disappear in the light of a full and correct understanding.

Just because we understand things better doesn't mean physical laws will no longer apply. I don't believe the Bible says we will cease to exist in the physical sense, but the physical universe will be what God always intended, not what we made it to be.



snapcap
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29 May 2012, 12:46 pm

Alien100 wrote:
Snapcap: Anyone else think this thread was going to be about the evolution of religion?

Regarding your reply, even the the whole post was not about the Origin/Evolution of religion, but I would like to hear your thoughts if you have any theories, do you think at some point it will disappear. Remember there was no need for such a word before we started killing each other, before we had disagreements.

At what point was the word religion created, and why. but at what point did this word need to exist. My theory is that it came directly when humans had it's first disagreement.


Religions come and go. New ones will be built on the ideas that the older ones had value. The belief in God will always be here.


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Kraichgauer
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29 May 2012, 4:25 pm

TallyMan wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Trust me, there are plenty of Christians who believe in divinely guided evolution, particularly among mainline denominations.


I believe that when I let go of a brick, God divinely inspires it to leap to the ground otherwise it would just hover in mid space. :wink:


Hm. Maybe you should be expanding your social circle to include more mainline Christians. :)

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ruveyn
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29 May 2012, 10:30 pm

AngelRho wrote:

Just because we understand things better doesn't mean physical laws will no longer apply. I don't believe the Bible says we will cease to exist in the physical sense, but the physical universe will be what God always intended, not what we made it to be.


The cosmos has an event horizon of 13 billion (or so) light-year radius. The only part of the cosmos we have made anything happen in is a portion of the earth's surface and atmosphere. What percentage of the cosmos is that? Humans have done nearly zilch to the physical universe.

We earth children started radiating e.m. radiation in non-trivial amounts about 100 years ago, so one being more than 100 l.y. from Earth even knows we exist.

ruveyn



AngelRho
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29 May 2012, 10:36 pm

ruveyn wrote:
AngelRho wrote:

Just because we understand things better doesn't mean physical laws will no longer apply. I don't believe the Bible says we will cease to exist in the physical sense, but the physical universe will be what God always intended, not what we made it to be.


The cosmos has an event horizon of 13 billion (or so) light-year radius. The only part of the cosmos we have made anything happen in is a portion of the earth's surface and atmosphere. What percentage of the cosmos is that? Humans have done nearly zilch to the physical universe.

We earth children started radiating e.m. radiation in non-trivial amounts about 100 years ago, so one being more than 100 l.y. from Earth even knows we exist.

ruveyn

We sought to improve on what God had already made perfect, attempting to rise above even God Himself and introducing a flaw into the created order. The physical world is an imperfect place, and it has yet to forgive us for what we did to it.



ruveyn
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29 May 2012, 11:27 pm

AngelRho wrote:
We sought to improve on what God had already made perfect, attempting to rise above even God Himself and introducing a flaw into the created order. The physical world is an imperfect place, and it has yet to forgive us for what we did to it.


Word salad.

The physical world is not a sentient being so it is not able to forgive or condemn anything.

ruveyn



AngelRho
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30 May 2012, 7:24 am

ruveyn wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
We sought to improve on what God had already made perfect, attempting to rise above even God Himself and introducing a flaw into the created order. The physical world is an imperfect place, and it has yet to forgive us for what we did to it.


Word salad.

The physical world is not a sentient being so it is not able to forgive or condemn anything.

ruveyn

You're taking me TOO literally.



heavenlyabyss
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30 May 2012, 7:52 am

ruveyn wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
We sought to improve on what God had already made perfect, attempting to rise above even God Himself and introducing a flaw into the created order. The physical world is an imperfect place, and it has yet to forgive us for what we did to it.


Word salad.

The physical world is not a sentient being so it is not able to forgive or condemn anything.

ruveyn


If you insist on being literal, then this is not word salad. Word salad is something like "this mucrowump wants to walk to school and sit in the cafeteria, and then it will become god, and ride the bus." I mean, I can't give a very good example, because I'm not in the word salad zone right now, but let's not misuse the term.



ruveyn
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30 May 2012, 5:24 pm

AngelRho wrote:
You're taking me TOO literally.


I am genetically literal minded. I cannot take anyone any other way. I take people at their word, either written or spoken.

ruveyn



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30 May 2012, 5:26 pm

ruveyn wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
You're taking me TOO literally.


I am genetically literal minded. I cannot take anyone any other way. I take people at their word, either written or spoken.

ruveyn


I think almost all us here are characterized by that.

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Alien100
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30 May 2012, 11:15 pm

ruveyn wrote:
AngelRho wrote:

You're taking me TOO literally.


I am genetically literal minded. I cannot take anyone any other way. I take people at their word, either written or spoken.

ruveyn


................I think that is the Aspergers speaking, it has a mind of it's own.



AngelRho
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31 May 2012, 2:38 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
You're taking me TOO literally.


I am genetically literal minded. I cannot take anyone any other way. I take people at their word, either written or spoken.

ruveyn


I think almost all us here are characterized by that.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Agreed. Things like humor are wasted on me.

I understand ruveyn's point and actually do agree. However, while the physical world does wondrously supports human life, it doesn't go out of its way to do us any favors. The tsunami that hit Japan didn't take its nuclear power vulnerabilities under consideration when it struck.

Incidentally, the direction AS has taken me has made me more sensitive to the use of language than some. In my view, a metaphor is literally a metaphor. Anthropomorphism is not an uncommon feature of language, and I figured (mistakenly) that it was obvious and easy to spot.