Autistics are aliens and/or aliens are autistic

Page 7 of 7 [ 112 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

Syd
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,280

07 Oct 2020, 9:15 pm

A few thoughts to consider about the prevalence of autism...

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... n-the-u-s/



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 44,600
Location: Stendec

07 Oct 2020, 9:30 pm

adromedanblackhole wrote:
... some are positing ...
Who are they?
adromedanblackhole wrote:
...it could be a potential...
How does one make the leap from 'could' and 'potential' to 'is'?
adromedanblackhole wrote:
... indicator of a phenomenon in human evolution.
Past, present, or future?

The ambiguity you present not only leaves room for open skepticism, but demands that skepticism prevail.
adromedanblackhole wrote:
That is the basis for that claim; it does not rest on the idea of autism being advantageous for procreation, and this was the basis you used to invalidate the claim.
Wrong again.  I invalidate the claim that autism is an advance in human evolution, and that because it severely hampers both the likelihood of procreation through an autistic individual AND the likelihood of the autistic individual's genes being passed along to the next generation, I further assert that because of this, autism is extremely unlikely to be the "next step in human evolution" unless that step is being taken backwards.


_________________
 
Since there is no singular, absolute definition of human nature,
nor any ultimate evaluation of human nature beyond that which we project onto others,
individuals should be judged or defined only by their actions and choices,
and not by what we only imagine their intentions and motivations to be.


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 44,600
Location: Stendec

07 Oct 2020, 9:34 pm

Syd wrote:
A few thoughts to consider about the prevalence of autism...

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... n-the-u-s/
A well-written report -- No speculation without substantiation.  I like that.

Here is an article on a self-proclaimed "UFO Expert" that you might appreciate:
Steven Macon Greer


_________________
 
Since there is no singular, absolute definition of human nature,
nor any ultimate evaluation of human nature beyond that which we project onto others,
individuals should be judged or defined only by their actions and choices,
and not by what we only imagine their intentions and motivations to be.


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,718

07 Oct 2020, 9:54 pm

Fnord wrote:
Syd wrote:
A few thoughts to consider about the prevalence of autism...

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... n-the-u-s/
A well-written report -- No speculation without substantiation.  I like that.

Here is an article on a self-proclaimed "UFO Expert" that you might appreciate:
Steven Macon Greer


Edgar Mitchell was also included as a "loon" in your article Fnord. Mitchell has a masters in aeronautical engineering from MIT and was of course the 6th American to walk on the moon. He is actually a real American hero so its a bit disappointing he's lumped into into the loony bin.



adromedanblackhole
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2020
Gender: Female
Posts: 491
Location: Los Angeles

07 Oct 2020, 11:02 pm

Fnord wrote:
Wrong again. I invalidate the claim that autism is an advance in human evolution, and that because it severely hampers both the likelihood of procreation through an autistic individual AND the likelihood of the autistic individual's genes being passed along to the next generation, I further assert that because of this, autism is extremely unlikely to be the "next step in human evolution" unless that step is being taken backwards.

Yes, this is the point - you misunderstand the basis for the claim
The claim that autism is an advance in evolution is NOT based on a procreative advantage of autistic genes. You're also being redundant in distinguishing that autism severely hampers the likelihood of procreation and the likelihood of the autistic individual's genes being passed along. Procreation is the passage of one's genes down to the next generation, you're repeating yourself.

There are 2 components to the actual claim: 1. Autism is attributed to an evolutionary leap in our past. 2. Increased incidences of autism are observable now. Autism is on the rise, and it is from NT people producing autistic children. I am making this fairly simple to avoid a semantic or pendantic distraction from the crux of the point at hand - you are using an argument that is irrelevant to the claim to invalidate the claim.



Last edited by adromedanblackhole on 08 Oct 2020, 1:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,481
Location: Australia

08 Oct 2020, 12:38 am

adromedanblackhole wrote:
Generally of the mind that humanity is garbage and if there are aliens I would be surprised if they don't agree.


Well, as an aspie Vulcan, I can verify that the Vulcan Confederacy's high council agrees with your assessment of the human psyche.
It is pure crap.
Recommendation: Back to the drawing board. 8)

I seriously believe this,
And my opinion can be seen "seeded" throughout my posting history. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."

Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


adromedanblackhole
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2020
Gender: Female
Posts: 491
Location: Los Angeles

08 Oct 2020, 1:01 am

Pepe wrote:
adromedanblackhole wrote:
Generally of the mind that humanity is garbage and if there are aliens I would be surprised if they don't agree.


Well, as an aspie Vulcan, I can verify that the Vulcan Confederacy's high council agrees with your assessment of the human psyche.
It is pure crap.
Recommendation: Back to the drawing board. 8)

I seriously believe this,
And my opinion can be seen "seeded" throughout my posting history. 8)

Same. I am curious how many times I have referenced humanity as an abusive apex predator on WP thus far. I have been here 2 weeks as of today and I feel the crux of most of my posts revolve around just how inconceivably awful mankind is. What a misnomer, we all know mankind is not so kind.



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,481
Location: Australia

08 Oct 2020, 2:15 am

adromedanblackhole wrote:
Pepe wrote:
adromedanblackhole wrote:
Generally of the mind that humanity is garbage and if there are aliens I would be surprised if they don't agree.


Well, as an aspie Vulcan, I can verify that the Vulcan Confederacy's high council agrees with your assessment of the human psyche.
It is pure crap.
Recommendation: Back to the drawing board. 8)

I seriously believe this,
And my opinion can be seen "seeded" throughout my posting history. 8)

Same. I am curious how many times I have referenced humanity as an abusive apex predator on WP thus far. I have been here 2 weeks as of today and I feel the crux of most of my posts revolve around just how inconceivably awful mankind is. What a misnomer, we all know mankind is not so kind.


"Man's inhumanity to man."

Once I'm out of here, I ain't coming back. :mrgreen:


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."

Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 44,600
Location: Stendec

08 Oct 2020, 8:17 am

cyberdad wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Here is an article on a self-proclaimed "UFO Expert" that you might appreciate: Steven Macon Greer
Edgar Mitchell was also included as a "loon" in your article Fnord. Mitchell has a masters in aeronautical engineering from MIT and was of course the 6th American to walk on the moon. He is actually a real American hero so its a bit disappointing he's lumped into into the loony bin.
It just proves that even "heroes" can be functionally loony, and that Edgar Mitchell is no exception to this rule.


_________________
 
Since there is no singular, absolute definition of human nature,
nor any ultimate evaluation of human nature beyond that which we project onto others,
individuals should be judged or defined only by their actions and choices,
and not by what we only imagine their intentions and motivations to be.


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 44,600
Location: Stendec

08 Oct 2020, 3:54 pm

The apparent lack of any rational explanation is not evidence of any irrational explanation being right; and just because science can not currently explain an alleged event or experience, the explanation does not automatically default to an extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.  Those who believe in such things often consider science as a "Party-Pooper", when in reality Science is there to be the "Designated Driver".


_________________
 
Since there is no singular, absolute definition of human nature,
nor any ultimate evaluation of human nature beyond that which we project onto others,
individuals should be judged or defined only by their actions and choices,
and not by what we only imagine their intentions and motivations to be.


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,718

08 Oct 2020, 5:05 pm

Fnord wrote:
It just proves that even "heroes" can be functionally loony, and that Edgar Mitchell is no exception to this rule.[/color]


A number of the lunar astronauts in the 60s and 70s reported seeing objects (bogeys). The transcripts were recorded by NASA. I am not suggesting these are extraterrestrial aliens but experiencers tend to be influenced by what they see. Astronauts are trained to be highly observant under the conditions they experience in space so if they are seeing bright sparkly things moving at high velocity I would take it as seriously as they did.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 44,600
Location: Stendec

08 Oct 2020, 6:46 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Fnord wrote:
It just proves that even "heroes" can be functionally loony, and that Edgar Mitchell is no exception to this rule.
A number of the lunar astronauts in the 60s and 70s reported seeing objects (bogeys). The transcripts were recorded by NASA. I am not suggesting these are extraterrestrial aliens but experiencers tend to be influenced by what they see. Astronauts are trained to be highly observant under the conditions they experience in space so if they are seeing bright sparkly things moving at high velocity I would take it as seriously as they did.
Unfortunately, when you are in a capsule traveling thousands of miles per hour through space, and something outside also looks like it is moving, it is hard to tell how fast the object is moving if you do not know (1) its distance, (2) its size, and (3) if it is actually moving on its own or just traveling in a normal elliptical orbit around the Moon, the Earth, or the Sun.

We did several experiments on this in uni.  One of them involved students seated at one end of a darkened auditorium tracking a dim light at the other end by tracing out its path on a piece of paper.  When the auditorium lights came up, the light was shown to be a small hole that had been drilled in the wall with daylight shining through.  Every student's paper showed a wild, weaving track that looked like the kind of scribble a toddler might do to a wall with a crayon.

The point is that without a secondary reference, every student perceived the hole in the wall "moving" all over the far end of the auditorium.  Even those of us running the experiment perceived that the hole was moving, and not our eyes, heads, or bodies.  It is a weird feeling to know that our senses can easily mislead our minds into believing that a stationary light is moving erratically and impossibly fast only because it is far away from both us and any nearby reference point.

Did those astronauts see alien space-ships, or were their eyes just playing tricks on them?  Experiments like the one I described demonstrate the likelihood that what those astronauts saw were NOT alien space-ships, but only inanimate debris floating in space.

It is amazing what can be learned through real scientific experiments instead of esoteric debates.


_________________
 
Since there is no singular, absolute definition of human nature,
nor any ultimate evaluation of human nature beyond that which we project onto others,
individuals should be judged or defined only by their actions and choices,
and not by what we only imagine their intentions and motivations to be.


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,718

08 Oct 2020, 10:07 pm

Fnord wrote:
Did those astronauts see alien space-ships, or were their eyes just playing tricks on them?  Experiments like the one I described demonstrate the likelihood that what those astronauts saw were NOT alien space-ships, but only inanimate debris floating in space.

It is amazing what can be learned through real scientific experiments instead of esoteric debates.[/color]


This is precisely what I am saying. It's impossible to get a grant to test these claims scientifically. The perception test you spoke of can illustrate the potential for perceptual bias in one specific situation but its not valid in all situations until you test them. So for astronauts who see objects that defy explanation it could be perception bias based on the conditions they are under but NASA's own video feed seems to corroborate unexplained objects flying across the orbit of the same ships or circumnavigating the orbit of the earth or moon. Hence the claims need to be more rigorously tested in the conditions where the astronauts are (but I suspect based on the experiences of pilots they are instructed not to discuss their sightings in public).

There was a NASA documentary some years ago that proposed to demonstrate that circular objects surrounding space shuttle cameras were actually ice crystals. While NASA demonstrated ice crystals could create images like UFOs seen on NASA video feed it didn't resemble all the videos so perhaps explained some of what people were seeing.

Again this is like the US airforce saying that UFOs seen on radar are likely artefacts of weather (e.g. temperature inversion) or that a couple of drunken Englishmen with wooden planks were responsible for all crop circles in the UK (they must have been particularly skilled with much time on their hands).

My point is the rebuttal is often no more unscientific (in many cases less so) than the proposed claims.



lakersgirl
Emu Egg
Emu Egg

Joined: 9 Oct 2020
Gender: Female
Posts: 6

09 Oct 2020, 3:36 am

I don't really think that. I feel like we are just unique.



Dear_one
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Feb 2008
Age: 72
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,175
Location: Where the Great Plains meet the Northern Pines

10 Oct 2020, 7:27 am

AS is not the next evolutionary step for all of Humanity, it is one of the specialties in the spectrum of Human abilities. Venture capital won't consider a company with only engineers, but neither will they consider a tech company with no engineers. We are like the yeast in the bread, even though we usually can't get enough sugar to grow.



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,626
Location: temperate zone

10 Oct 2020, 7:40 am

The above two posts are right. We are not aliens, but just one more genetic/epigenetic strain of the human crop.

A strain like that Middle Ages breed of sheep with floppy folds in its skin. They had more surface area on their bodies so they produced more wool than the normal kinda sheep. But then came the industrial revolution of the late 18th Century, and efficiency of pulling wool became more important than the productivity of the individual animal. So that breed went out of favor, but its till preserved on a farm in England that preserves odd strains of livestock.

We are like those sheep: advantaged in some situations and disadvantaged in others.