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Tequila
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10 Jun 2012, 5:47 am

HisDivineMajesty wrote:
His proposals for the immigration policy, on a fun sidenote, are probably not nearly as strict as Canada's current policies.


Indeed - and the Swiss SVP is even more moderate than Geert Wilders. These national conservative parties are growing across Europe precisely because the politicians refuse to listen to the wishes of a lot of the electorate, many who are sick to the back teeth with unlimited immigration. They won't vote for fascist parties (like in Greece, where the situation is very, very worrying - the Golden Dawn loons were calling for the annexation of Istanbul into Greece this week several days after one of their politicians slapped and threw water over two fellow Greek women politicians!) unless the situation is majorly dire and people are starving. The best medicine is for our elite to listen to the concerns of the electorate instead of shouting them down all the time.

The Swiss SVP are nothing like the NPD mob. Not even in the same ballpark. They're a lot like UKIP, in fact.



HisDivineMajesty
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10 Jun 2012, 7:36 am

These parties are often a response to politicians not listening to their electorate. It seems 79% of our population doesn't support further European integration. However, several large political parties do, and their choice counts. It's not sixteen million voters who count - it's 150 people who have talked their way into a political party. Our situation is slightly worse than the UK's in another respect - we have coalitions. In 2010, a lot of people who voted for Wilders were unpleasantly surprised to find that they had indirectly voted for two neoliberal pro-Europe parties. Thankfully, Wilders withdrew when their reasoning shifted from 'balancing our state budget' to 'appeasing the European Union'.

It seems Wilders isn't as extreme as the Democratic Party in the United States.

Quote:
Democratic Party: Responsibility from people who are living in the United States illegally: Undocumented workers who are in good standing must admit that they broke the law, pay taxes and a penalty, learn English, and get right with the law before they can get in line to earn their citizenship.
Wilders: We should be able to return sentenced criminals and the structurally unemployed to their countries of origin.

Democratic Party: ''I think same-sex couples should be able to get married.''
Wilders: Same-sex couples can get married, and now we should stop ignoring the people who commit acts of violence against them.

Democratic party: We need to create jobs!
Wilders: Perhaps we should stop adhering to the more ill-advised parts of European legislation - it's costing us jobs.

Democratic Party: Democrats and President Obama are focused on preventing terrorism across the globe.
Wilders: I don't want to pay for having thousands of people killed if it's not to defend ourselves.


But he's known for being extreme as he opposes certain cultural elements that everyone knew were bad, but everyone kept quiet about in fear of social rejection. Until about ten years ago.



Aelfwine
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10 Jun 2012, 2:02 pm

But Wilders party has only one member, he himself.
Is that intra-party democracy?

I have compiled here a few goals of his party:

Recording ethnicity for all Dutch citizens
Active repatriation of criminals of foreign citizenship
Deportation of criminals with a Double nationality or single foreign nationality back to their country of origin, after a prison sentence
Restrictions on immigrant labour from new EU member states and Islamic countries
Removal of resources from anti-climate change programmes, development aid and immigration services
Closing Islamic schools
Dutch language proficiency and a 10-year Dutch residency and work experience requirement for welfare assistance
Constitutional protection of the dominance of the Judeo-Christian and humanistic culture of the Netherlands



HisDivineMajesty
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10 Jun 2012, 2:57 pm

Apparently, his electorate does not want democracy within the party itself. Nothing wrong with that, in my opinion.

Interestingly, I think most of those make a lot of sense.

Recording ethnicity was part of a proposal to fight crime more efficiently through acknowledging that some ethnic groups were just much more likely to be involved in it, and adapting preventive measures to that. Repatriation of criminals with foreign citizenship after a prison sentence is something a lot of other countries have chosen to do. Restrictions on immigration are probably a good idea - a lot of it consists of people with no perspective of employment, often women facing arranged marriages or men who can't read or write on an adequate level. Closing Islamic schools is something I personally support - they're public Islamic schools that try to heal homosexual students through prayer and intimidation, and insist on girls wearing hijabs while having the worst imaginable results on almost any national exam.

Development aid is highly inefficient and hardly effective. Assuming Africa is dependent on former colonial powers, it's because of development aid. The reason Africa has a billion inhabitants, many of whom are below the poverty line, while experiencing rapid population growth at the moment rather than a stable and well-fed 250,000 - 350,000 inhabitants throughout the past century, is because development aid allows the population of several large regions to utterly exceed even their most optimistic expectations of agricultural output. During the 2011 East Africa drought, all of the countries involved were among the countries with the highest population growth rates in the world. I'll make an exceedingly-safe estimate: within the next five years, at least two of them will be hit by another famine, millions of dollars worth of emergency aid will be distributed, and population growth rates will remain the same or even increase.

When I see a starving African child on television, I look beyond my initial emotion. At that point, I wonder what would happen if that child survived. It would grow up hungry and poor, not go to school, work the land as far as it could, and have children who will be on television in twenty years. That's the unfortunate reality in this matter, and I'm glad Wilders doesn't turn a blind eye to any of the issues mentioned here.



Tequila
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10 Jun 2012, 3:09 pm

HisDivineMajesty wrote:
Apparently, his electorate does not want democracy within the party itself.


Haven't some PVV representatives defected over this lack of democracy within the party? That said, the PVV have soared in Dutch political terms.

What is the state of the PVV like in the polls? They seem to be suggesting that the PVV might lose a seat or two but will otherwise stay static.



HisDivineMajesty
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10 Jun 2012, 5:17 pm

Tequila wrote:
Haven't some PVV representatives defected over this lack of democracy within the party? That said, the PVV have soared in Dutch political terms.


One of them has defected and formed his own political party, and it looks like he's not going to be elected in the next elections.

Tequila wrote:
What is the state of the PVV like in the polls? They seem to be suggesting that the PVV might lose a seat or two but will otherwise stay static.


According to the poll I trust most, the one that has shown most accurate though slightly underestimating the PVV in the past two elections, they're stable at the same amount of seats they have now. Relatively speaking, they're third. They're behind the first, which is a eurosceptic socialist party, and behind the second, which is a moderately pro-EU conservative-liberal party. This situation is unique - until a few years ago, the country was governed almost exclusively by three 'mainstream' parties, those being conservative liberals, social democrats and christian democrats. If elections were held now, they couldn't piece together a majority coalition with the four largest non-eurosceptic parties. And they wouldn't even be able to come to a proper agreement, because they disagree strongly on other matters.

These elections are going to prove very interesting. It's always fun to watch exit polls and preliminary results until the morning, but this time is going to be even more satisfying because of a complete landslide. Unfortunately, we'll have to wait until after the summer. For some reason, a set of austerity measures and the signing away of another few billion to the EU wasn't too much effort to pass before summer, but a simple election was.



codarac
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12 Jun 2012, 4:08 pm

Tequila wrote:
HisDivineMajesty wrote:
His proposals for the immigration policy, on a fun sidenote, are probably not nearly as strict as Canada's current policies.


Indeed - and the Swiss SVP is even more moderate than Geert Wilders. These national conservative parties are growing across Europe precisely because the politicians refuse to listen to the wishes of a lot of the electorate, many who are sick to the back teeth with unlimited immigration. They won't vote for fascist parties (like in Greece, where the situation is very, very worrying - the Golden Dawn loons were calling for the annexation of Istanbul into Greece this week several days after one of their politicians slapped and threw water over two fellow Greek women politicians!) unless the situation is majorly dire and people are starving. The best medicine is for our elite to listen to the concerns of the electorate instead of shouting them down all the time.

The Swiss SVP are nothing like the NPD mob. Not even in the same ballpark. They're a lot like UKIP, in fact.


How typical that a conservative should be very, very worried by a European party that actually defends the interests of their native people rather than just droning on about "values" all day.

Conservatism is false opposition to the liberal zeitgeist. As far as I'm concerned, the sooner conservatism is finished with, the better.



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13 Jun 2012, 7:24 pm

Joker wrote:
I should point out I support the NPD. I'm a NPD sympathizer but not a member.


What parties in America do you support?



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13 Jun 2012, 7:40 pm

iBlockhead wrote:
Joker wrote:
I should point out I support the NPD. I'm a NPD sympathizer but not a member.


What parties in America do you support?


I support the Indepenent party I am a proud political independent.



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13 Jun 2012, 7:42 pm

Joker wrote:
I support the Indepenent party I am a proud political independent.


Independent Party? What's their website?



Joker
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13 Jun 2012, 7:48 pm

iBlockhead wrote:
Joker wrote:
I support the Indepenent party I am a proud political independent.


Independent Party? What's their website?


They don't have one but their are political indepenents in American. Who are not republican or democract conservative or liberal.



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13 Jun 2012, 7:53 pm

Joker wrote:
iBlockhead wrote:
Joker wrote:
I support the Indepenent party I am a proud political independent.


Independent Party? What's their website?


They don't have one but their are political indepenents in American. Who are not republican or democract conservative or liberal.


How do you support a political party if you are an independent? You stated you supported the NPD. Wow...



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13 Jun 2012, 7:55 pm

iBlockhead wrote:
Joker wrote:
iBlockhead wrote:
Joker wrote:
I support the Indepenent party I am a proud political independent.


Independent Party? What's their website?


They don't have one but their are political indepenents in American. Who are not republican or democract conservative or liberal.


How do you support a political party if you are an independent? You stated you supported the NPD. Wow...


Yeah I do support the NPD only because of my German ancestry.



Aelfwine
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14 Jun 2012, 3:01 am

Quote:
Joker wrote:
Yeah I do support the NPD only because of my German ancestry.


I dislike the NPD because I'm German. How can you support a party only because of your ancestry?



Joker
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14 Jun 2012, 10:13 am

Aelfwine wrote:
Quote:
Joker wrote:
Yeah I do support the NPD only because of my German ancestry.


I dislike the NPD because I'm German. How can you support a party only because of your ancestry?


Because of my granfather he supports that party.



iBlockhead
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14 Jun 2012, 12:24 pm

Joker wrote:
Aelfwine wrote:
Quote:
Joker wrote:
Yeah I do support the NPD only because of my German ancestry.


I dislike the NPD because I'm German. How can you support a party only because of your ancestry?


Because of my granfather he supports that party.


Those are two very good reasons why you should support a political party. I appreciate the thought you put into this matter.

So, despite "espousing" a far-right ideology (something which I doubt very strongly given you can only give one-sentence posts for your views which barely give any knowledge into the matter at all), you say you are an independent. You mean to tell me that there is no political party that suits your "far-right" views in America?