For those of you who support Zionism and Israel and a Two St

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For those of you who support Zionism and Israel and a Two State Solution for Israel/Palestine if a people or even one person broke into your home house and or land farm or property and raped or killed you and your family or were trying to or they drove you out of your own house and let you back in and said we both can share this house you take one half I take the other half then we can share the kitchen would you accept this ? This seems immoral to me. The Israelis drove into refugee camps the Palestinians/Arabs/Muslims why is this a good thing ? I don't want the pre 1967 borders I want pre 1947 borders for Palestine. I call on the Americans to stop voting for American Politicians who are Puppets of Israel. The Israelis don't seem to want a two state solution they just pay lip service to the idea they are liars. The Israelis/Zionists/Jews have for years abd still are occupying East Jerusalem the West Bank and the Gaza Strip the Israelis have occupied the Golden Heights Mount Sinai and Lebanon among other lands. Israel seeks a Greater Israel an Empire that the Bible talks about. It my view the State of Israel has no moral right to exist does anyone agree or disagree thank you ? In my view you can't be both pro Israel and pro Palestine at the sametime it is one or the other you can not be both.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-state_solution

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_refugee_camps

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_refugee


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Israel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movemen...Greater_Israel


God promised the descendants of the prophet Abraham the 'Promised Land', why are Palestinians defying the Almighty's prophecy?

Finally, the exact borders of the "Promised Land" have not been geographically defined. The Biblical "Promise", which "God had granted to Abraham's descendants", covered the areas between the Nile River in Egypt and the Euphrates River in Iraq,
Does that imply that Israel's future borders eventually will span the borders of Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, and Southern Turkey?

http://www.palestineremembered.com/A.../Story418.html

What is the meaning of your call for Muslims to take arms against America in particular, and what is the message that you wish to send to the West in general?
The call to wage war against America was made because America has spear-headed the crusade against the Islamic nation, sending tens of thousands of its troops to the land of the two Holy Mosques over and above its meddling in its affairs and its politics, and its support of the oppressive, corrupt and tyrannical regime that is in control. These are the reasons behind the singling out of America as a target. And not exempt of responsibility are those Western regimes whose presence in the region offers support to the American troops there. We know at least one reason behind the symbolic participation of the Western forces and that is to support the Jewish and Zionist plans for expansion of what is called the Great Israel. Surely, their presence is not out of concern over their interests in the region. ... Their presence has no meaning save one and that is to offer support to the Jews in Palestine who are in need of their Christian brothers to achieve full control over the Arab Peninsula which they intend to make an important part of the so called Greater Israel. ...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...interview.html

I think that most of the Israeli politicians are intelligent enough not to try to realize Greater Israel.
It is also impossible to realize the 1947 borders. Yes it was against many human rights to settle down in the land of the palestineans.
But do you want to undo injustice with new injustice. Also if you insist on your position, you are obstructing a solution.
Yes maybe Israel could and should give up some settlements in the Westbank and pay some compensation.
What do you want to do with some millions Israelians if you really want to give all the land back?

I try to be neutral but it is difficult.

Israel is just the unofficial 51st state of the union that the west uses to keep the ME off balance so that we may get our paws on the resources, and be the benefactors of how to deal with them.

That is nonsense. The Israelis do pretty much as they please.

Would the United States have sent a bomber force to take out Saddam Hussein's only reactor on a quiet Sunday morning? No way, but that is just what the Israelis did.

Israelis and Jews can be killed, just as any other flesh and blood group of humans can, but they cannot be dominated or conquered. Jews are a tough nut. The Greeks tried it and failed, The Romans tried it and failed.

The Israelis would never consent to becoming the "51 st state". Not in a zillion years. And the Israelis would never consent to let a bunch of Gentiles in Washington determine the laws under which they live. It is unthinkable.

Israel is a place for Jews. The United States is mostly for the Gentiles.

ruveyn

the thing about the one state solution(which i support) is that it doesnt mean that the occupants of israel should be expelled. i think all land should be given back to the palestinians and there should be one secular state. this would result in an end to the apartheid system, the fact that there would be no israeli state that defines itself as a "jewish state" means that all religions could live together in the same area instead of one state being classed for one religion only. thats why zionism is racist-its the idea of one state for one religion which must separate itself from the rest of the world and for it to maintain itself as a jewish state it must have a majority of jews so everyone else is ousted or delegated second class in society. thats why i think the two state solution fails- it is soft zionism. first off a two state system is what israel started as and what it is now and thats not going so great. also two state means you still support one state for jews and one for palestinians which is still aparthied and still means israel is gonna have to do all it can to keep its state religiously pure. plus there is still the matter of the land belonging to the palestinians anyway. they shouldnt "let" them have it or "give" it back- it is theirs. it is difficult to be neutral.

mikecartwright: i dont think a war against america is the answer and i dont think calling for all muslims to specifically take up arms against america makes sense. it is the government and buisiness that benifits from israel as its watchdog in the middle east not the people of america and both countries who would actually suffer from a war. also not all inhabitiants of palestine are arab- there are many christian palestinians as well. also not all palestines supporters are muslim or even arab- why alienate them from solidarity work? i think the way to tackle this for those outside palestine is the way south africa was approached- protests, boycott, divestments, sanctions, strikes. i think the how the palestinian struggle is conducted is best commented on by those within. you do hear of the awesome stuff though going on from inside both israel and palestine, by both jews and arabs- weekly protests, commemorations(in israel to commemorate certain events is dangerous if you are on the side of palestine- eg al nakba, palestinian land day), hunger strikes- just being generally pro-palestinian is illegal now, even if you are an ngo. i think international solidarity is important and i think that gaining the support of antizionist jews from within israel is important. both sides need to realise that whatever propaganda israel might feed them, jews are not the enemy of palestinians, arabs are not the enemy of jews- they need to work together for liberation against their enemy, the state.
oh also dont equate jew with zionist and who exactly do you think is taking over the arab peninsula? that is some conspiracy theory you got there.

Would the 51st state have done it without western money and support?

The whole middle east spat isn't about saving the Jews. It's about getting our foot in the door so that the west can exploit resources in that region and minimizing the benefits countries receive in that area.

Freedom and Jews is just a smoke screen. Heck, the government LOVES terrorism, looks at the lucrative opportunities it has opened for us! Good thing Mossad works for us. What a great asset to have! Good thing they destabilized that facility in Iraq, it might have made the balkanization of the ME harder.

My opinon is that since the Jews where persucted for 5000 years they have a right to the land of Israel.

They wouldn't have had the right to Israel if it didn't serve us a purpose.

Not true befor America even existied as a country they had a right to israle centries ago.

What do you think the Palestinians should do?

Well they have their country Palestine why not just stay their.

Which Palestine? The borders are always on the move.

Their is only one Palestine. I guess immagrate to america that is what I would do.

Israel is a sovereign State and has won its wars without a drop of U.S. blood being shed.

The financial help has been important by not crucial to Israel's survival. Israel survives because it is the strongest armed state in the region.

ruveyn

Yeah and they are always fighting Jews are tough.

Yes two states would also cause a seperation between palestineans and jews. But could you imagine a nation which consists of two totally opposing groups.
A secular state could only work with tolerant and moderate persons.
I think first the palestineans should become more self-government and a better economy. If the standard of living is okay, then you can start with reconciliation. It takes a long time to reduce the hatred.



Even if a group like the Jews were persecuted for 5000 years they had not the right to persecuted or suppress other people. They had the right to have a place where they can live in peace.