For those of you who support Zionism and Israel and a Two St

Post Reply New Topic

Those terrorists only exist because of Israel's mercy and attempts at peace. Who do you think keeps funding them?

Once Israel, and the rest of the world, finally runs out of patience, this entire issue will become just another blip in history.

Terrorism (of the Muslim variety) has existed for over 1100 years. Look up the history of the assassin order (Hashishim order). It was a Muslim enterprise started in Persia during the common era 11th century.

ruveyn

'cause apartheid and ethnic cleansing says peace.

Shooting thousands of rockets into Israel every year tends to make peace hard, yes.

Keep telling yourself whatever you want to justify terrorism if it helps you sleep at night.

And Jews had the Sicarii, and Hindus had the Thuggee. Just a feature of the Near East, I think.

Goes back a long way, doesn't it? It sure did not start with Israel and the surrounding Muslims.

And no one escapes the Spanish Inquisition!

ruveyn

It does, it's interesting. The Christians had something in Alexandria too, I forget what they were called, but it was the same idea. And it's not limited to Abrahamic religions because there are the Thuggee who are Hindu. Maybe the Zoroastrians had something as well, I wonder. Sikhs have their kirpan daggers too, doesn't mean anything today but it did at one time.

It was an anti-Jewish pogrom done by Greek polytheists. And then there was Nero and the Chrisians. It didn't involve the Middle East or Jews at all. Then in the 400s C.E. the Christians drove out what Jews remained in Alexandria and skinned Hypatia alive. That was St. Cyrils doing along with his Christian Gang. See the move -Agora- some time.

ruveyn

there is a difference between the violence of the oppressed and that of the oppressor. what palestinians do in resistance pales in comparison with that of israels actions.

Signifying what, exactly?

You have a romantic notion of rooting for the underdog--but where does that lead you? If one were to substitute the state of Israel (wherein Jews, Christians, Muslims and atheists all have full citizenship) for a Palestinian state (wherein none of these things are assured), then you are simply going to substitute one oppressed population for another.

Do you remotely believe that a Palestinian state could protect the lives and poperty of the Jews within its borders? Do we even believe that a Palestinian state would try? And would we then be pounding the drums for humanitarian relief to Haifa?

Stop living in a dream world and join the human race in the real one. The one where politics is the art of the possible. A real peace in the middle east cannot exclude either Israel or Palestine. And the sooner that foolish notions like yours face up to that reality, the sooner we will be able to facilitate that peace.

To the OP - you do have a point, but do not forget the violence against Israelies as well. I suppose you have researched the subject, so you should know about it. I'm anti-war but I know reverse examples to the original post can be made. A lot of the Israelies' bitterness comes from enduring such attacks.

in any struggle you do have to root for the oppressed group. its not a question. their violence is resistance. to believe that the presence of israel could ever mean a peace where both groups benifit demonstrates a lack of knowledge of the historical precedent. yeah i do believe that a palestinian state could protect the rights of all members in contrast to the state of israel at presence where it most certainly does not. lol they all have full citizenship- their rights are constantly denied to them. surely you follow the news? how can you deny the crimes that israel commits and put them on(or below) the same level as a few rockets launched into israel? your response doesnt answer the issues raised about racism, apartheid, ethnic cleansing, zionism being a retreat from antisemitism and a cause of it and the loss of a people of their land and heritage. palestine's not even on any of the bloody maps anymore. its disgusting. it always was and always will be palestinian land.

Why?

I thought we were supposed to be on the side of peace. Did I miss a meeting?



Which historical precedent? The state of Israel demonstrates 64 years of current history--but there's plenty of historical precedent to demonstrate that Jews would be equally victimized without the presence of Israel.



Last time I checked, there were Arabs in the Knesset (including cabinet ministers, and briefly Acting President of Israel), senior levels of the public service (including Israeli Ambassadors and at least one director on the board of every state run company), senior levels of the military (including Commanders of the border police and Home Front Command), police and the courts. Can the same be said for non muslims in any Arab states other than Lebanon and Egypt?



I have never sought to deny offences committed by Israel.

But too often romantics like you neglect the fact that there is only one parliamentary democracy in the middle east--and this is Israel. There are only three nominally pluralist administrations in the middle east (Egypt, Israel and Lebanon) and neither Egypt nor Lebanon can demonstrate the same commitment to rule of law and pluralism as has been established in Israel.

Is Israel perfect? No, of course not. Would a single Palestinian state be any better? Assuredly not.

The only solution that a rational, thinking person can support is the two state solution. Anything else is a recipe for continued violence.

Unless, of course, that's what you want.

Ends justifies the means, oh where have I heard that before?

The Jews have not been persecuted any more than your average ethnic or religious group. The Jews just whine about it more than anybody else.

Six million dead at the hands of the Nazis who intended to kill all the Jews. The only other group so badly done in were the Armenians back in 1915.

Your problem is that you are ignorant of history.

ruveyn