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How do you regard the Federal Reserve?
Favourably 18%  18%  [ 4 ]
Unfavourably 77%  77%  [ 17 ]
Just show the results 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 22

ArrantPariah
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06 Jun 2012, 2:11 pm

It does appear that gold is falling, and that investors are preferring dollars.

http://www.inquisitr.com/240233/gold-pr ... vestments/

http://www.thestreet.com/video/10742029 ... ummet.html



techstepgenr8tion
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06 Jun 2012, 2:11 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I have the same problem with the Federal Reserve that I have with most major unions today - ie the power to accountability ratio is completely out of whack.


Unions have pretty much fallen into irrelevancy (at least in the USA). Very few workers actually belong to unions any more.

That's been part of a long process. The problem has been that with big unions, like the auto workers, you had this big body of money aimed at trying to twist the corporations arms until they were eating dirt or had their heads underwater - reason being; they had accountability to make sure their workers got what they wanted but no accountability for the survival of the companies that fell under their domain. It went from representing the worker against harsh/unsafe work conditions and went to killing and stripping a carcass.

What's been scaring the heck out of people lately has been the teacher's unions. The reason being - when such a union has only a one-sided accountability to make the members better off but has little if any accountability for the quality of education; its not a car we're putting together in this case, its the future of our country.

ArrantPariah wrote:
There must be some degree of accountability with the Federal Reserve.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_12591.htm

Quote:
The members of the Board of Governors are nominated by the President of the United States and confirmed by the U.S. Senate. By law, the appointments must yield a "fair representation of the financial, agricultural, industrial, and commercial interests and geographical divisions of the country," and no two Governors may come from the same Federal Reserve District.

The full term of a Governor is 14 years; appointments are staggered so that one term expires on January 31 of each even-numbered year. A Governor who has served a full term may not be reappointed, but a Governor who was appointed to complete the balance of an unexpired term may be reappointed to a full 14-year term.

Once appointed, Governors may not be removed from office for their policy views. The lengthy terms and staggered appointments are intended to contribute to the insulation of the Board--and the Federal Reserve System as a whole--from day-to-day political pressures to which it might otherwise be subject.

In addition to serving as members of the Board, the Chairman and Vice Chairman of the Board serve terms of four years, and they may be reappointed to those roles and serve until their terms as Governors expire. The Chairman serves as public spokesperson and representative of the Board and manager of the Board's staff. The Chairman also presides at Board meetings. Affirming the apolitical nature of the Board, recent Presidents of both major political parties have selected the same person as Board Chairman.

The Congress sets the salaries of the Board members. For 2012, the Chairman's annual salary is $199,700. The annual salary of the other Board members (including the Vice Chairman) is $179,700.


They can't be removed for their political views, but there must be some crimes for which a member could be removed. You tend to hear more political rancoring over Supreme Court nominations than over Federal Reserve nominations.

I know that they can't and shouldn't be fired or indited simply for making unpopular decisions, no one should be, but I do worry a fair deal about possible connections between the current guard in that department (Fed), Goldman Sachs, the SEC board that let the whole world burn while they are commissioned to be the watchdogs of the US economy; while there are a lot of 'tin foil' now-turned Appalachian mountain men who've written raving articles about key people in all of those top US financial department being complicit in some plot to bring the whole economy down and put as much money in their pockets as they can and then flee to Croatia leaving us with essentially a sacked shell of a country - there are a lot of signs in the seeming murkiness of everything that's going on that make me worry.

As far as devaluing the dollar or monetizing debt; I don't know where that gets us. Supposedly we could rip off our external creditors if there was no currency valuation clauses in their loans to us but, still, that's taking a hammer to the hand that fed us. It is for certain though a huge drag on the US population, especially when prices go up and wages generally stay the same. Its even harder on the poor when every dollar they have has to count and their money is getting hit the same way.


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techstepgenr8tion
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06 Jun 2012, 2:17 pm

visagrunt wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I have the same problem with the Federal Reserve that I have with most major unions today - ie the power to accountability ratio is completely out of whack.


Surely the ultimate accountability for the federal reserve is in the willingness of people to buy US dollars.

There's still a lot of goodwill out there but clearly they can't drive that toward a supernova. I'd think also that they have accountability both to the people of the US as well as foreign buyers.


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06 Jun 2012, 5:44 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Didn't he encourage people to take out second mortgages so that they could go shopping?

Are you talking about something he said? I'd need a quote. He's just a guy who has authority over the interest rates in the economy. Nothing in his position entails advocating second mortgages.


Well, he did deny the housing bubble.

http://www.1-refinance.com/article_gree ... bble.shtml

Quote:
Greenspan: Housing Market Bubble Bursting 'Most Unlikely'
Realty Times
by Broderick Perkins

WASHINGTON, D.C. - Most homeowners -- 75 percent of them -- have a 20 percent or greater equity stake in their homes and that's plenty to cover a significant drop in home prices.

However, the vast majority of homeowners needn't fear big price drops because such an event will likely occur only locally. Economic diversity holds sway over statistical models that predict a nationwide home price drop.

That's according to Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan who in a recent speech repeated a refrain that punches holes in theories that the housing market is an overinflated bubble about to burst.

"These concerns cannot be readily dismissed. Debt leverage of all types is often troublesome when one judges the stability of the economy. Should home prices fall, we would have reason to be concerned about mortgage debt; but measures of household financial stress do not, at least to date, appear overly worrisome," he said in a speech before the America's Community Bankers Annual Convention this week.

Greenspan said 75 percent of all outstanding first mortgages were originated with a loan-to-value ratios of 80 percent or less and when all mortgages are considered the loan-to-value ratio is about 45 percent, giving the nation, as a whole, a 55 percent equity stake in residential real estate.

"It would take a large, and historically most unusual, fall in home prices to wipe out a significant part of home equity," he told conventioneers.

Greenspan said housing price bubble theories also assume there is too much speculation in the market and that home buyers are looking at homes as get-rich-quick investments, but in reality expensive buying and selling fees and the need to have a roof over one's head prevent such conditions.

He said investors accounted for only 11 percent of the total home mortgage originations in 2003 and represent a small fraction of the overall housing market.

"Overall, while local economies may experience significant speculative price imbalances, a national severe price distortion seems most unlikely in the United States, given its size and diversity," Greenspan said.

He did voice concerns about the rapid run up in household indebtedness which has outpaced income growth. And the chairman does agree that home price appreciation will slow down from its frenetic pace of recent years.

"Most analysts, even those who do not foresee a mounting bubble, anticipate a slowdown in both home sales and the rate of price increase...If house turnover and price increases both slow, and presumably mortgage debt extensions on new homes do as well, increases in home mortgage debt will slow. Outright declines in mortgage debt seem most unlikely. Home mortgage debt has increased every quarter since the end of World War II."

He also said:

One percent of the average annual growth of home mortgage debt comes from renters who have become homeowners since the early 1990s.
Information technology-driven lending improvements has enabled more underserved borrowers to buy homes without significantly increasing the number of households with over-extended indebtedness.
Recent higher debt-to-income ratios "some of which is more statistical than real" has only modestly increased the level of financial strain on households.
Persistently elevated levels of bankruptcy indicates pockets of distress in the household sector, but only to a minimum.
Most households are financially stable. The Federal Reserve's measures of financial stability, the debt-service ratio and the financial obligations ratio rose during the 1990s, but the debt-service ratio stabilized in the past three years and the financial obligations ratio has dropped since 2002. Much of that is due to low mortgage rates which allow homeowners with equity to buy more for less.
"Indeed, the surge in cash-out mortgage refinancings likely improved rather than worsened the financial condition of the average homeowner. Some of the equity extracted through mortgage refinancing was used to pay down more-expensive, non-tax-deductible consumer debt or to make purchases that would otherwise have been financed by more-expensive and less tax-favored credit," Greenspan said.

"In addition, a significant decline in consumer incomes or house prices could quickly alter the outlook; nonetheless, both scenarios appear unlikely in the quarters immediately ahead. If lenders, including community bankers, continue their prudent lending practices, household financial conditions should be all the more likely to weather future challenges," he concluded


I don't see that as "encouraging people to take out debt". He's simply claiming that current refinancings are to the benefit of homeowners. He ends up being very wrong on the bubble, but most people aren't right on the bubbles, and if many are right about a bubble, then that bubble is unlikely to happen in the first place.

I mean, he's assuming lenders are prudent as well.



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06 Jun 2012, 5:45 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
It seems like the Reserve is a private business doing the government's job. Private businesses only exist to make profits, not to look after the interests of the nation. Plus, by printing money and setting interest rates, the Reserve is controlling (financially) the government. That's too much power.

It's a mixed agency. The head of the federal reserve is actually put into power by the US government, and the organization itself has a government mandate. It is not a wholly private corporation, and analyzing it as such would be a mistake.



Awesomelyglorious
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06 Jun 2012, 5:47 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I have the same problem with the Federal Reserve that I have with most major unions today - ie the power to accountability ratio is completely out of whack.

The problem is that I don't really see how you'd fix that. Politicians are not competent at economic policy, so making the fed accountable to that group likely wouldn't help. In fact, there is some reason to think it would hurt given that comparisons between governments with an independent fed have lower inflation than those with more accountability.



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06 Jun 2012, 7:24 pm

Here is Alan Greenspan on the Gold Standard

http://www.321gold.com/fed/greenspan/1966.html

Here are his concluding paragraphs:

Quote:
In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. There is no safe store of value. If there were, the government would have to make its holding illegal, as was done in the case of gold. If everyone decided, for example, to convert all his bank deposits to silver or copper or any other good, and thereafter declined to accept checks as payment for goods, bank deposits would lose their purchasing power and government-created bank credit would be worthless as a claim on goods. The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves.

This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard.


Does it seem a bit odd for a Libertarian/"Objectivist"/"gold standard advocate" to be Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board?

AwesomelyGlorious wrote:
I don't see that as "encouraging people to take out debt". He's simply claiming that current refinancings are to the benefit of homeowners. He ends up being very wrong on the bubble, but most people aren't right on the bubbles, and if many are right about a bubble, then that bubble is unlikely to happen in the first place.

I mean, he's assuming lenders are prudent as well.


I think that people may have taken his words as advertising and encouragement to take out debt. Refinancings may have been beneficial to homeowners, if they were able to lower their interest payments, or consolidate debts and gain tax advantages through mortgage payments. Just prior to the bust, home equity was being tapped for consumer spending, as many expected their home prices to rise forever.

http://archive.newsmax.com/money/archiv ... 144347.cfm

It appears that this tapping of home equity was feeding a booming economy, although most people probably shouldn't have gambled on their homes.



Awesomelyglorious
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06 Jun 2012, 7:52 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Does it seem a bit odd for a Libertarian/"Objectivist"/"gold standard advocate" to be Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board?

Yes, incredibly odd.

Quote:
I think that people may have taken his words as advertising and encouragement to take out debt. Refinancings may have been beneficial to homeowners, if they were able to lower their interest payments, or consolidate debts and gain tax advantages through mortgage payments. Just prior to the bust, home equity was being tapped for consumer spending, as many expected their home prices to rise forever.

http://archive.newsmax.com/money/archiv ... 144347.cfm

It appears that this tapping of home equity was feeding a booming economy, although most people probably shouldn't have gambled on their homes.

The basic issue is that Alan Greenspan failed on this bubble. Even Greenspan admits that there was a failure on his part. I don't really know where you'd want to go with this. As the question is not "did the system fail?" but rather "does this system fail relative to other systems?"



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06 Jun 2012, 8:10 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
I think that people may have taken his words as advertising and encouragement to take out debt. Refinancings may have been beneficial to homeowners, if they were able to lower their interest payments, or consolidate debts and gain tax advantages through mortgage payments. Just prior to the bust, home equity was being tapped for consumer spending, as many expected their home prices to rise forever.

http://archive.newsmax.com/money/archiv ... 144347.cfm

It appears that this tapping of home equity was feeding a booming economy, although most people probably shouldn't have gambled on their homes.

The basic issue is that Alan Greenspan failed on this bubble. Even Greenspan admits that there was a failure on his part. I don't really know where you'd want to go with this. As the question is not "did the system fail?" but rather "does this system fail relative to other systems?"


Since the housing bubble was making a lot of people feel artificially rich, which stimulated quite a lot of economic activity, what would be a superior and more sustainable way of making people feel rich while stimulating economic activity?



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06 Jun 2012, 8:25 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Since the housing bubble was making a lot of people feel artificially rich, which stimulated quite a lot of economic activity, what would be a superior and more sustainable way of making people feel rich while stimulating economic activity?

I don't know what you're trying to get at.

The housing bubble isn't something we just wanted to have happen, it's an economic policy result that we don't fully understand with multiple different theories on how bubbles emerge.

There are psychological theories, where the key issue is that human cognitive biases interact to cause irrational market behavior.

There is the Minsky Financial Instability Hypothesis, where bubbles really are just what emerges in an economic system where each agent has a reason to maximize profit, which causes them to take higher risk, which ultimately undermines the stability of the system, as everything becomes increasingly risky and a small shock or fraud can ripple through the system.

I mean, yeah, there's even the Austrian Business Cycle, which doesn't require an attitude denying fractional reserve banking, but simply is the notion that bubbles emerge due to interest rates that fail to reflect the underlying dynamics of the system, and that causes the economy to break down as bad investments are made based upon bad estimates which were caused by bad interest rates.

And there are plenty of other theories out there. What's desired is a functioning economy. And the goal of the central bank towards this is to try to stabilize it. They don't always succeed, but it isn't as if the time before then was a wonder either.



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06 Jun 2012, 8:39 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Since the housing bubble was making a lot of people feel artificially rich, which stimulated quite a lot of economic activity, what would be a superior and more sustainable way of making people feel rich while stimulating economic activity?

I don't know what you're trying to get at.

The housing bubble isn't something we just wanted to have happen, it's an economic policy result that we don't fully understand with multiple different theories on how bubbles emerge.

.


Well, while it was bubbling, things did seem hunky-dory, even to Alan Greenspan. We seemed poised to become a nation of millionaires.

A lot of people just wanted the good times to keep rolling, without ending.

How can that be effected?



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06 Jun 2012, 9:00 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Well, while it was bubbling, things did seem hunky-dory, even to Alan Greenspan. We seemed poised to become a nation of millionaires.

A lot of people just wanted the good times to keep rolling, without ending.

How can that be effected?

We don't really know how to cause these things in the economy. We can promote various actions for good reasons, but I don't think anybody knows how to cause a perpetual 10% growth in GDP in the US. The federal reserve is really just trying to keep the economy stable. I don't think any of them has the ability to cause perpetual growth, they only have the hope of keeping the monetary system at its best.



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06 Jun 2012, 11:43 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I have the same problem with the Federal Reserve that I have with most major unions today - ie the power to accountability ratio is completely out of whack.

The problem is that I don't really see how you'd fix that. Politicians are not competent at economic policy, so making the fed accountable to that group likely wouldn't help. In fact, there is some reason to think it would hurt given that comparisons between governments with an independent fed have lower inflation than those with more accountability.

Do you think the CBO might have it in them to be analytical enough to grade their performance at least?


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07 Jun 2012, 6:38 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Do you think the CBO might have it in them to be analytical enough to grade their performance at least?

I wouldn't know. Grading the head of the fed is like grading a CEO. While it might be true that Microsoft is losing money, if they are not losing as much money as they could in the downturn, that would still be a good sign for that CEO. I'm not saying a grade couldn't be made, but there's a chance of luck, and there's a fear that it will be political.



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07 Jun 2012, 8:55 am

Here are the various Republican candidate stances on the Federal Reserve

http://silverunderground.com/2011/12/fe ... l-reserve/

Quote:
Mitt Romney on the Federal Reserve

Mitt Romney does not support abolishing the Federal Reserve. He has said that the Federal Reserve is already audited by independent auditors and worries about politicizing monetary policy by giving Congress more authority over the Fed. [Source - starting at 2:00 mark] Mitt Romney has taken different stances on Ben Bernanke and the Federal Reserve’s effectiveness at bolstering the weak economy. He was quoted in a CNBC interview saying: “I think Ben Bernanke is a student of monetary policy; he’s doing as good a job as he thinks he can do. I’m not going to spend my time going after Ben Bernanke. I’m not going to spend my time focusing on the Federal Reserve.”

Later, Mitt Romney took a different position in a Republican debate, saying:
Quote:

WILLIAMS: “Would Ben Bernanke have a job in your administration?”

ROMNEY: ” No, I’d be looking for somebody new. I’m — I think Ben Bernanke has — has over-inflated the amount of currency that he’s created. QE2 did not work. It did not get Americans back to work. It did not get the economy going again. We’re still seeing declining numbers in prior quarter estimates as to what the — the growth would be. We’re growing now at 1 percent to 1.5 percent.”


Ron Paul on the Federal Reserve

Ron Paul is the author of a New York Times bestselling book entitled “End the Fed,” in which he argues that the Federal Reserve is corrupt and unconstitutional, levies a hidden tax against Americans, incentivizes open-ended warfare, and threatens to destroy the value of the dollar that it prints through radical inflation of the money supply. These criticisms of the Fed are also a regular feature of Ron Paul’s campaign speeches and answers in presidential debates. Ron Paul believes a monetary collapse of the U.S. dollar due to hyperinflation is imminent, as evidenced by his financial holdings, which consist of mostly gold and silver mining stocks and shorts on the dollar-denominated New York Stock Exchange.

In a speech on the House floor, Ron Paul summarized his views thusly:

Ron Paul wrote:
“From the Great Depression, to the stagflation of the seventies, to the current economic crisis caused by the housing bubble, every economic downturn suffered by this country over the past century can be traced to Federal Reserve policy. The Fed has followed a consistent policy of flooding the economy with easy money, leading to a misallocation of resources and an artificial ‘boom’ followed by a recession or depression when the Fed-created bubble bursts.”


Newt Gingrich on the Federal Reserve

Gingrich has been calling for reform of the Federal Reserve on the campaign trail, saying that he would like to eliminate one of the Fed’s twin mandates: keeping unemployment in check, in favor of focusing its efforts on its other mandate: price stabilization. Newt Gingrich is on the record supporting an audit of the Federal Reserve and saying:

Newt Gingrich wrote:
“The Federal Reserve wasn’t set up to bail out banks and to cut deals, and to hang out with people in New York City. The Federal Reserve was set up to maintain the value of the dollar… We have an agency which is supposed to be an elitist agency, protecting the value of the dollar, which uses its elitism as an excuse to avoid being held accountable.”


Gingrich has also said if elected president, he would ask Ben Bernanke to resign and if the Fed Chairman refused, he’d ask Congress to remove him.

Michele Bachmann on the Federal Reserve
Michele Bachmann is a supporter of a full public audit of the Federal Reserve and co-sponsored Ron Paul’s bill to audit the Fed. In a 2009 op ed, Bachmann wrote:

Mrs. Bachmann wrote:
“Our government’s spending and printing money like it’s being used for a board game, and we’re bailing out Wall Street and Detroit to the tune of billions of dollars, the least the Federal Reserve can do is open up their doors a crack so taxpayers can take a peek at what they’re doing with our money. As it stands now, the Federal Reserve has very little, if any, accountability to the taxpayer. In the wake of Enron, Congress required corporate America to open its books to their shareholders, yet the Federal Reserve keeps the taxpayers in the dark. They need to be held to the same standard. It’s simply common sense.”


Rick Perry on the Federal Reserve

Rick Perry supports a full public audit of the Federal Reserve, saying “they should open their books up” and “be transparent,” and credits Ron Paul with inspiring his interest in monetary policy and the Federal Reserve’s role in the economy:

The Daily Caller – ‘Asked to compliment a rival, Texas Gov. Rick Perry said on Saturday night that Ron Paul is the reason he started reading up on the Federal Reserve.

“Congressman Paul is the individual on the stage that got me most interested in a subject that I found to be quite interesting and at the root of a lot of the problems that we have, and I thank you for that,” Perry said at the debate.’

In August of 2011, Rick Perry called inflating the currency “treasonous”:
Rick Perry wrote:
“If this guy [Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke] prints more money between now and the election, I dunno what y’all would do to him in Iowa but we would treat him pretty ugly down in Texas. Printing more money to play politics at this particular time in American history is almost treacherous – or treasonous in my opinion.”


Rick Santorum on the Federal Reserve

It was hard to find very much about Rick Santorum and the Federal Reserve out there. The most I could find was this statement from his website supporting an audit of the Federal Reserve and changing its mandate to focus exclusively on price stabilization: “Audit the Federal Reserve and return it to its original purpose – a single charter to only manage inflation.”

Jon Huntsman on the Federal Reserve

On the issue of the Federal Reserve, Huntsman has not supported a Fed audit and has suggested that the other GOP candidates’ focus on the Federal Reserve is a sideshow that distracts from fixing the economy and creating jobs. Huntsman’s main concern is reigning in the practice of printing money to bail out banks.

His website states:
Quote:
‘Jon Huntsman supports a strong and stable dollar. As president, he will appoint Federal Reserve Board Governors and a Chairman who believe in sound money. The United States cannot devalue our way to prosperity and efforts to do so risk a “beggar thy neighbor” round of devaluations, which will ultimately harm American exporters and risk the dollar’s privileged position as the primary global reserve currency.

The main risk to the dollar is that the Federal Reserve will feel empowered to create more money in order to provide bailouts to troubled large firms and deal with the unemployment levels caused by major financial crises. Eliminating “too big to fail” has consequences in terms of making the macroeconomy more stable because it removes a major incentive for the Federal Reserve to run a loose monetary policy.’


Do any of them have any valid points? Or is it just standard meaningless election-year chatter?



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07 Jun 2012, 11:09 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Do you think the CBO might have it in them to be analytical enough to grade their performance at least?

I wouldn't know. Grading the head of the fed is like grading a CEO. While it might be true that Microsoft is losing money, if they are not losing as much money as they could in the downturn, that would still be a good sign for that CEO. I'm not saying a grade couldn't be made, but there's a chance of luck, and there's a fear that it will be political.

Well right, they could make a 'C' (average) grade projection based on the environment and see whether the CEO gets anywhere from A through F based on that whether excellent, good, average, fair to poor, or failing. As you say though with downturns and upturns it means that the C median would mean different things at different times.


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