IQ scores not a good measure of function in autism

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Verdandi
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18 Jun 2012, 8:00 am

Eloa wrote:
I guess I have trouble passing the "theory of mind" tests as I am picture-thinking as well and I get too focused onto the picture of the box and its changing content, so my directly given answer is describing the picture of the box and its new content.


I had a lot of trouble with this kind of problem when I was in my late teens/early 20s. I was doing a lot of roleplaying games at the time, and I was constantly annoying people by not getting the idea that just because I knew something that didn't mean my character would also know. I eventually got the idea, however. Whenever I read something like the Sally and Anne test, I have to stop and draw a mental flowchart really quickly so I can explain why I say where Sally would look, even though I give the correct answer. My first impulse is the incorrect answer.

I do think in pictures, although not quite as sharply as Grandin does, nor is my memory as photographic. It used to be a lot better but has become less so over the past decade (around the time I started having fibromyalgia-type problems, in fact). Thinking in words is very difficult without using speech or writing to prompt the thoughts. Before I was able to write all the time (say, before 19, the first time I got to operate a word processor) I would say my speech was much more rigid and formal, and much more reliant on scripts and memorized phrases. Or at least I had the ability to write my own scripts.

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Grandin cannot give a 100% correct evaluation of the spectrum as it is too versatile and she is also relying on results from reaserch which has been done and her own observation, but I appreciate her book as it gives a bigger insight for me, as in my "normal" life I do not meet people who think in pictures and I also do not meet autistic people, so it helps me to get to know myself better like reading on this forum does.


I've had some interesting insights from reading it so far. The parts I wanted to argue with seemed to be more the assumption that autistic severity is more uniform than it actually appears to be. It's still a good - and interesting - book.



hanyo
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18 Jun 2012, 8:25 am

I would pass the Sally Anne test but I see it as a reading comprehension test. I remember other tests posted here where I had no idea what the answers were because I was supposed to just guess or assume something that wasn't stated in the stories.



btbnnyr
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18 Jun 2012, 12:03 pm

Eloa wrote:
I get too focused onto the picture of the box and its changing content, so my directly given answer is describing the picture of the box and its new content.


I fail the theory of minds tests on the first try, and I pass on the second try. It is because I go with my instinct, and my instinct is to focus on the objects instead of the people. "Where will Sally look for the marble?" gets translated into "Where is the marble?" in my mind, so I answer the location of the marble, not where Sally thinks the marble is. In the paper on the Sally-Anne test, the researchers had a third location for the marble, which was the researcher's pocket, and the autistic children answered that Sally would look for the marble in the researcher's pocket, but they are ackshuly answering the question of where is the marble, not where Sally will look for the marble. They were completely focused on the objects and did not take into account any of the behaviors or mentalizations of the people. On the second try, I always pass as an adult, but as a child, I would have failed on eberry try, because I did not understand such things as mentalizations, such as the fact that they eggsisted.



Eloa
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18 Jun 2012, 6:20 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
Eloa wrote:
I get too focused onto the picture of the box and its changing content, so my directly given answer is describing the picture of the box and its new content.


I fail the theory of minds tests on the first try, and I pass on the second try. It is because I go with my instinct, and my instinct is to focus on the objects instead of the people. "Where will Sally look for the marble?" gets translated into "Where is the marble?" in my mind, so I answer the location of the marble, not where Sally thinks the marble is. In the paper on the Sally-Anne test, the researchers had a third location for the marble, which was the researcher's pocket, and the autistic children answered that Sally would look for the marble in the researcher's pocket, but they are ackshuly answering the question of where is the marble, not where Sally will look for the marble. They were completely focused on the objects and did not take into account any of the behaviors or mentalizations of the people. On the second try, I always pass as an adult, but as a child, I would have failed on eberry try, because I did not understand such things as mentalizations, such as the fact that they eggsisted.


I had two tests, one was Sally-Anne and one other one, which was a bit different. I guess I start to understand these tests (though my first impulse reading what you write is the picture of the researcher's pocket, so I would probably just describe this picture, as I had the simple Sally-Anne-version without the pocket of the researcher), but I relate to you and Verdandi, that the first impulse/instinct is the "wrong" one, so if I had to take a test again knowing this I would probably not react immediately, but think it more through, but I guess I will never have to take it again, as I got evaluated again. But I forgot about Sally in the test.


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