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Kraichgauer
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28 Jun 2012, 10:30 am

President Obama's healthcare plan has been upheld by the Supreme Court!
Now, the only thing better would be for truly universal healthcare, with everyone covered by Medicare.
In a related story: Mitt Romney seething with rage and bitter tears that the supreme court has ripped an easy campaign plank from his platform. :lol:

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Sweetleaf
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28 Jun 2012, 10:35 am

Universal Health care would be 100X better than this stupid bill being passed. I mean I am confused how it is supposed to help anything making people pay a fine/tax for not purchasing health insurance. And sure now the insurance companies supposedly cannot reject someone for pre-existing health conditions, but they can still be like insurance companies are and find excuses not to cover certain treatments and such while still making the person pay them for crappy service. Or else paying a fine for not having insurance.

Also I somehow doubt Romney's healthcare plan would have been much better.


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Kraichgauer
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28 Jun 2012, 10:50 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Universal Health care would be 100X better than this stupid bill being passed. I mean I am confused how it is supposed to help anything making people pay a fine/tax for not purchasing health insurance. And sure now the insurance companies supposedly cannot reject someone for pre-existing health conditions, but they can still be like insurance companies are and find excuses not to cover certain treatments and such while still making the person pay them for crappy service. Or else paying a fine for not having insurance.

Also I somehow doubt Romney's healthcare plan would have been much better.


It's still something of a moral victory for the president. And considering the density of so many of our fellow Americans, it will probably take baby steps such as this plan in order to achieve true universal healthcare.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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28 Jun 2012, 11:10 am

What this means is electing Romney won't change a thing. He has no reason to be different now. Big Insurance bonanza! They own you! Should have stuck with Obama's "public option."



pete1061
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28 Jun 2012, 11:18 am

The mandate is really more of a 'poor tax'. Most folks who choose not to get health insurance do so because they can't even come close to affording it. And this subsidy, they call a 'rebate', to low income people once a year does absolutely nothing to help people living check to check.

And then as it currently is, when a person without insurance goes to the hospital. They still get a bill for those services, so when people go around saying that taxpayers pay for the uninsured, that logic is somewhat flawed.

Even with the ACA, taxpayers are now paying MORE to subsidize low income people to get insurance.

In the end, this is just going to cost everyone in this country much more.
This really is just a huge handout to the health insurance companies, who we're toasting champagne with Nancy Pelosi hours after it was passed.

Yeah, thanks Obama :x

PS:
Now this opens the door for health insurance to slowly begin mandating collectivist lifestyle changes for everyone "for the good of the public", things that the government couldn't get away with mandating... or lose coverage, and believe me insurance companies WILL find loopholes that will allow them to still drop people.

Everyone in support of the ACA has been duped ... big time.


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Last edited by pete1061 on 28 Jun 2012, 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

1000Knives
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28 Jun 2012, 11:21 am

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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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28 Jun 2012, 11:29 am

pete1061 wrote:
The mandate is really more of a 'poor tax'. Most folks who choose not to get health insurance do so because they can't even come close to affording it. And this subsidy, they call a 'rebate', to low income people once a year does absolutely nothing to help people living check to check.

And then as it currently is, when a person without insurance goes to the hospital. They still get a bill for those services, so when people go around saying that taxpayers pay for the uninsured, that logic is somewhat flawed.

Even with the ACA, taxpayers are now paying MORE to subsidize low income people to get insurance.

In the end, this is just going to cost everyone in this country much more.
This really is just a huge handout to the health insurance companies, who we're toasting champagne with Nancy Pelosi hours after it was passed.

Yeah, thanks Obama :x

PS:
Now this opens the door for health insurance to slowly begin mandating collectivist lifestyle changes for everyone "for the good of the public", things that the government couldn't get away with mandating... or lose coverage, and believe me insurance companies WILL find loopholes that will allow them to still drop people.

Everyone in support of the ACA has been duped ... big time.

The thing is, Obama's original plan did not involve this tax, it involved a public option which would not have been a tax at all and everyone would have qualified as having health insurance but Republicans and big insurance threw a huge fit over that idea.



pete1061
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28 Jun 2012, 11:37 am

The public option would have been much better, but that didn't happen.
And Obama didn't put up much of a fight for his preference, if at all.

Another thing occurred to me, what about all the people who don't believe in or trust modern, conventional allopathic medicine?
They are being forced into a system that goes against their personal beliefs. Health care reaches into ones own spiritual beliefs and it's unfair to force someone to conform to something that goes against their personal belief system.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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28 Jun 2012, 11:39 am

pete1061 wrote:
The public option would have been much better, but that didn't happen.
And Obama didn't put up much of a fight for his preference, if at all.

Another thing occurred to me, what about all the people who don't believe in or trust modern, conventional allopathic medicine?
They are being forced into a system that goes against their personal beliefs. Health care reaches into ones own spiritual beliefs and it's unfair to force someone to conform to something that goes against their personal belief system.

YES, it would make this thing doable. Now it's just going to create fiscal chaos in the economy.



Sweetleaf
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28 Jun 2012, 11:42 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Universal Health care would be 100X better than this stupid bill being passed. I mean I am confused how it is supposed to help anything making people pay a fine/tax for not purchasing health insurance. And sure now the insurance companies supposedly cannot reject someone for pre-existing health conditions, but they can still be like insurance companies are and find excuses not to cover certain treatments and such while still making the person pay them for crappy service. Or else paying a fine for not having insurance.

Also I somehow doubt Romney's healthcare plan would have been much better.


It's still something of a moral victory for the president.

Oh well isn't that just precious :roll:

And considering the density of so many of our fellow Americans, it will probably take baby steps such as this plan in order to achieve true universal healthcare.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Why do you think this is a move towards true Universal Healthcare?.......it it was then there would be no forced purchasing of a product from the private market. You know what it is when the corporations and government team up the way they are? Fasicsm....but of course they want us to think its a move towards Universal Healthcare.

Seriously though if it is why did they throw out the part about expanding medicaid? and great so maybe since I am poor as hell I don't have to pay the tax for not purchasing health insurance but so what's the improvement? I still don't have access to adequate healthcare.


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Last edited by Sweetleaf on 28 Jun 2012, 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

pete1061
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28 Jun 2012, 11:42 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
pete1061 wrote:
The public option would have been much better, but that didn't happen.
And Obama didn't put up much of a fight for his preference, if at all.

Another thing occurred to me, what about all the people who don't believe in or trust modern, conventional allopathic medicine?
They are being forced into a system that goes against their personal beliefs. Health care reaches into ones own spiritual beliefs and it's unfair to force someone to conform to something that goes against their personal belief system.

YES, it would make this thing doable. Now it's just going to create fiscal chaos in the economy.


The politicians LOVE fiscal chaos. Voters are easier to manipulate when they are broke & desperate.


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You are very likely an Aspie
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Sweetleaf
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28 Jun 2012, 11:46 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
pete1061 wrote:
The mandate is really more of a 'poor tax'. Most folks who choose not to get health insurance do so because they can't even come close to affording it. And this subsidy, they call a 'rebate', to low income people once a year does absolutely nothing to help people living check to check.

And then as it currently is, when a person without insurance goes to the hospital. They still get a bill for those services, so when people go around saying that taxpayers pay for the uninsured, that logic is somewhat flawed.

Even with the ACA, taxpayers are now paying MORE to subsidize low income people to get insurance.

In the end, this is just going to cost everyone in this country much more.
This really is just a huge handout to the health insurance companies, who we're toasting champagne with Nancy Pelosi hours after it was passed.

Yeah, thanks Obama :x

PS:
Now this opens the door for health insurance to slowly begin mandating collectivist lifestyle changes for everyone "for the good of the public", things that the government couldn't get away with mandating... or lose coverage, and believe me insurance companies WILL find loopholes that will allow them to still drop people.

Everyone in support of the ACA has been duped ... big time.

The thing is, Obama's original plan did not involve this tax, it involved a public option which would not have been a tax at all and everyone would have qualified as having health insurance but Republicans and big insurance threw a huge fit over that idea.


Yeah I can see he put a lot of effort into fighting that tax and/or fee....looks to me like he kinda just went along with it.


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Sweetleaf
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28 Jun 2012, 11:48 am

pete1061 wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
pete1061 wrote:
The public option would have been much better, but that didn't happen.
And Obama didn't put up much of a fight for his preference, if at all.

Another thing occurred to me, what about all the people who don't believe in or trust modern, conventional allopathic medicine?
They are being forced into a system that goes against their personal beliefs. Health care reaches into ones own spiritual beliefs and it's unfair to force someone to conform to something that goes against their personal belief system.

YES, it would make this thing doable. Now it's just going to create fiscal chaos in the economy.


The politicians LOVE fiscal chaos. Voters are easier to manipulate when they are broke & desperate.


Yes but what about the broke & desperate, paranoid ones like me that don't trust the government? and see right through that Republicans vs. Democrats game?


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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28 Jun 2012, 11:54 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
pete1061 wrote:
The mandate is really more of a 'poor tax'. Most folks who choose not to get health insurance do so because they can't even come close to affording it. And this subsidy, they call a 'rebate', to low income people once a year does absolutely nothing to help people living check to check.

And then as it currently is, when a person without insurance goes to the hospital. They still get a bill for those services, so when people go around saying that taxpayers pay for the uninsured, that logic is somewhat flawed.

Even with the ACA, taxpayers are now paying MORE to subsidize low income people to get insurance.

In the end, this is just going to cost everyone in this country much more.
This really is just a huge handout to the health insurance companies, who we're toasting champagne with Nancy Pelosi hours after it was passed.

Yeah, thanks Obama :x

PS:
Now this opens the door for health insurance to slowly begin mandating collectivist lifestyle changes for everyone "for the good of the public", things that the government couldn't get away with mandating... or lose coverage, and believe me insurance companies WILL find loopholes that will allow them to still drop people.

Everyone in support of the ACA has been duped ... big time.

The thing is, Obama's original plan did not involve this tax, it involved a public option which would not have been a tax at all and everyone would have qualified as having health insurance but Republicans and big insurance threw a huge fit over that idea.


Yeah I can see he put a lot of effort into fighting that tax and/or fee....looks to me like he kinda just went along with it.

He did fight some but it was like he was trying to hold back an ocean tide.



Sweetleaf
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28 Jun 2012, 12:02 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:

Yeah I can see he put a lot of effort into fighting that tax and/or fee....looks to me like he kinda just went along with it.

He did fight some but it was like he was trying to hold back an ocean tide.


Yet he's still proud it was passed huh? When supposedly its different than what he had wanted.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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28 Jun 2012, 12:06 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:

Yeah I can see he put a lot of effort into fighting that tax and/or fee....looks to me like he kinda just went along with it.

He did fight some but it was like he was trying to hold back an ocean tide.


Yet he's still proud it was passed huh? When supposedly its different than what he had wanted.

Yeah because it's historical and all that. He wants his name to go down in history as doing something no one else was able to accomplish. That's why he is proud of the bill.

Looks like Romney is going to try to steal Obama's fifteen minutes with it though, if he gets elected. He is planning on putting his name on everything, replacing Obama's.



Last edited by ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo on 28 Jun 2012, 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.