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WhiteWidow
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29 Jun 2012, 11:13 am

Do you find that people are abusing this system? And it mainly is because of confidence issues that many with mental illness' face. Many with mental illness' are out of shape and lazy - true. I was at one point. But why? Is it because they choose to be like this? No. It's because they're unaware that their consumption patterns must change. They must change their image - so that they feel better about themselves physically and outwardly. Therefor projecting an attractive image to the rest of society. Discipline is the main form of this method - and many with mental ilness' lack discipline - and it must be taught to them. I know somebody who is on the same "plan" as I am and he receives rent subsidizes as well - yet I'm on that wait list. What does he do with his money? He eat three burgers every day and is happy "living with his fiance" a.k.a. mooching off the tax payer's purse. Yet - here I am. With ambition to create a healthier and economcially more stabilized world - and my access to funding is hampered because there is a myriad of individuals such as this.

I am aware that I must take up a trade at some point or even perform lots of general labor. I'm willing to do these tasks - but the money is segregated and spent in the wrong sectors - and the number of jobs available to the rest of us is taken up by incorrect transfer payment transactions and the lack of skills and abilities because these individuals are unwilling to gain the skills or abilities to perform these jobs.



Psygirl6
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29 Jun 2012, 11:24 am

To be honest without, I feel that many mental illnesses out there are over-diagnosed, especially by greedy psychiatrists who want to make tons of money and other incentives from the drug companies to prescribe the medications. Unfortunately with a diagnosis of a mental illness one qualifies for social security benefits.
One needs to look at this, even if one were to be too disabled to work, it would be certain types of job requirements that they could not do. But I don't feel that they can't completely not work. They just need some type of accommodation or a job placement program to find them that special job.
I think there should be two categories of disability: 1). too disabled to work completely and 2). disabled, but can work, just need accommodations to do so.
The problem is even with the job placement programs, especially for the developmentally disabled, not many of them would find someone anything and even if they do, it is very menial and they make sure that the person is poor enough to where they have to keep their SSI to stay in the program. Most of them in my area (Rhode Island) just have the clients either sit in units all day doing nothing or go on van rides to get out and "have fun". None of these activities job related at all. I know I was placed in these and left because it was not worth it. Even if they found you something, it was per piece (not minimum or any wage) and the most I would get is $30 a month. That is not success.



blueroses
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29 Jun 2012, 2:26 pm

I work for a social services agency and do meet some clients who are taking advantage of 'The System,' but they are actually in the minority. In my experience, I've come across many more clients who are too proud to accept help or unable to get the help they need.



Apple_in_my_Eye
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29 Jun 2012, 5:21 pm

Lot of bad information in this thread.

1. A psych diagnosis by itself is not enough to qualify for disability benefits. You need to be determined to be unable to work, regardless of the presence of the diagnosis (though without one there's no way that you will qualify even if you can't work).

2. In the UK they researched the rate of fraud in thief system and found it to be 0.5%. Yet, for various reasons people always think that fraud is rampant. (And politicians capitalize on that.) If anything the system is too stringent and errs more on the side of denying people who should not be denied.



ooo
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30 Jun 2012, 2:17 am

WhiteWidow wrote:
Do you find that people are abusing this system?


YES.

Society has an entitlement attitude.

And, the system rewards those who don't want or try to help themselves.

Get SSDI or welfare? Ok. Make more than the income max and loose your benefits. What incentive does that give someone to work?

Get diagnosed with ANYTHING from schizophrenia to fibromyalgia to depression to... whatever? People's first move these days seems to be "apply to SSDI and/or welfare."

Sure, there are people who truly can't work and need help. But, I've seen countless people welch the system.
Either they refuse to work at all, don't try, are substance abusers, or pop out kids to collect more benefits. It's really sick.

I get "having a medical condition makes life more challenging," but since when it it society's job to bankroll everyone's life?
Most people need temporary help to rehab them into the workforce while they are healing/getting treatment, not permanent benefits for fibromyalgia. No matter your condition, there's someone out there who has it worse. And, I've seen double amputees, people with a tracheotomy, and serious, serious conditions working retail. I respect such people who *work* to overcome their issues, not try to life off the system forever.



ooo
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30 Jun 2012, 2:24 am

Psygirl6 wrote:
One needs to look at this, even if one were to be too disabled to work, it would be certain types of job requirements that they could not do. But I don't feel that they can't completely not work.


Exactly.

Most people could do some sort of job, whether they have autism, mental illness, fibromyalgia, or what have you.

Rehabilitation programs are useful, particularly for those seriously developmentally disabled.

Whatever happened to people wanting to stand on their own two feet?

Whatever happened to families and communities pitching in and helping those in true, dire need... instead of the nation's taxpayers?

It's such a waste for see someone who's 20 or 30 get a diagnosis of, say, depression or autism, and "decide they can never work the rest of their lives," instead wasting years and years on SSDI. Earlier in the century, people used community help to get back on their feet, then took pride in their own lives and their ability to find a way to support themselves, despite challenging circumstances. Today, it's "well, I have depression, OMG, I can never ever ever ever work again.

We can only hope for a welfare and SSDI overhaul that stops rewarding lazy people who don't even try to help themselves, and instead helps those truly in dire need. There are plenty of people in dire need who genuinely need help and couldn't perform any job, but very few people receiving benefits have such dire of a condition that EVER working is 100% out of the question.

Just because you're disabled or mentally ill, why do you expect a country to support you for life? If so, why... just because you're born and we have the privilege of your presence? Do you expect your parents to support you for life? Or your friends to support you for life? Sadly, too many people expect it. Lazy and entitlement are a huge, huge problem in the welfare system these days. Didn't used to be like that...



Wandering_Stranger
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01 Jul 2012, 7:42 am

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
2. In the UK they researched the rate of fraud in thief system and found it to be 0.5%. Yet, for various reasons people always think that fraud is rampant. (And politicians capitalize on that.) If anything the system is too stringent and errs more on the side of denying people who should not be denied.


We have other out of work benefits in the UK, For disability benefits, it's the lowest fraud rate. It's 6 times as high on job seekers allowance. (as the name implies, you get this if you're seeking for work and are unemployed / work for less than 16 hours per week)

Quote:
Most people could do some sort of job, whether they have autism, mental illness, fibromyalgia, or what have you.


We could; but a lot of the problem is ignorance from others. I am on a programme designed to help me get back into work. The current company I'm with, have refused on at least 4 occasions to make reasonable adjustments and have accused me of lying. (I received my ASD diagnosed in May; been with them since February) I have an email from them which states there was only ever one problem with reasonable adjustments. Um, hello, I had to ask 3 times (and was refused all 4 times) for something to be done and nothing was, ever. He then wondered why I refused to turn up for the final day. :roll:

On top of ASD and my physical disabilities, I now have depression. A lot of it is related to the issues I have due to this programme. I am constantly treated like rubbish and am being forced to do things I can't. They can't understand the words "It's too painful to do that". :x

My adviser's line manager takes the managers side and makes everything out to be my fault. My crime appears to be developing hyperacusis and being diagnosed with ASD after being enrolled on this programme.



idratherbeatree
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07 Jul 2012, 6:52 pm

I've got a degenerative spinal condition, and severe connective tissue problems. Meaning I can't necessarily walk/stand/lift things regularly.
On top of this, I've got a severe case of Tourettes, (complete with associated dyscalculia, copralalia and OCD.) Meaning I can't crunch numbers or talk to customers. (Me: Hello customer, are you interested in s**t, buying our f**k, CALICO... and so on)
And Finally I have my autism spectrum problem. And we all know how that can be an issue

And I can't get on SSI. I don't qualify.

I don't even want to be on it anyway because I always feel like someone else needs it more. (Even thought I've been homeless more than most will in their lifetime...) Granted I have no idea WHAT exactly I could do. (Especially as my sensory integration problems are quite bad. ) Of course, I'm some crazy socialist who wants to move to Sweden.



liberti
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07 Oct 2012, 8:11 am

ooo wrote:
Psygirl6 wrote:
One needs to look at this, even if one were to be too disabled to work, it would be certain types of job requirements that they could not do. But I don't feel that they can't completely not work.



We can only hope for a welfare and SSDI overhaul that stops rewarding lazy people who don't even try to help themselves, and instead helps those truly in dire need. There are plenty of people in dire need who genuinely need help and couldn't perform any job, but very few people receiving benefits have such dire of a condition that EVER working is 100% out of the question.

Just because you're disabled or mentally ill, why do you expect a country to support you for life? If so, why... just because you're born and we have the privilege of your presence? Do you expect your parents to support you for life? Or your friends to support you for life? Sadly, too many people expect it. Lazy and entitlement are a huge, huge problem in the welfare system these days. Didn't used to be like that...


Actually, it used to be a lot better. There was staff at the job placement offices and at advocates' offices. Now attorneys only seem to want to take a disability case that is a sure fire win so they get their 6,000, and those without means to appeal get screwed and borrow and beg from family. Talk about building self-confidence.

My ill family member gets five minutes with a shrink every three months, gets his meds, and gets NO help at all finding job placement, or coaching for how to present himself. He's proud and hard to influence, because he hates to admit he has a mental illness and denies many of his obvious symptoms, like the ones that keep him from getting hired.

We are close to retirement, in debt from supporting him, and he needs help from the system he paid into when he was working. At one time he could.

No, I don't think it's that easy to abuse the system, trust me, right now, they are pulling out all the stops to refuse services even to people who have cut and dry diagnoses. I'm pretty pissed off.



LikeAChick
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07 Oct 2012, 12:36 pm

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DancingDanny
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08 Oct 2012, 7:38 am

I'm collecting disability but I am working part time and I have an interview for a full time job tomorrow.



thewhitrbbit
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08 Oct 2012, 9:11 am

Quote:
I am aware that I must take up a trade at some point or even perform lots of general labor. I'm willing to do these tasks - but the money is segregated and spent in the wrong sectors - and the number of jobs available to the rest of us is taken up by incorrect transfer payment transactions and the lack of skills and abilities because these individuals are unwilling to gain the skills or abilities to perform these jobs.


In some places, factory owners are begging people to come work for them. Physical labor but good paying jobs, between 15 and 20 dollars an hour with full benefits. They will even train them.

People aren't taking the offers. They want government jobs, or desk jobs pushing paper. There is a very negative attitude towards physical labor, especially in colleges.

As for abuse, my friend's sister was told "If you want more welfare, have more kids."



pezar
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08 Oct 2012, 1:20 pm

thewhitrbbit wrote:
Quote:
I am aware that I must take up a trade at some point or even perform lots of general labor. I'm willing to do these tasks - but the money is segregated and spent in the wrong sectors - and the number of jobs available to the rest of us is taken up by incorrect transfer payment transactions and the lack of skills and abilities because these individuals are unwilling to gain the skills or abilities to perform these jobs.


In some places, factory owners are begging people to come work for them. Physical labor but good paying jobs, between 15 and 20 dollars an hour with full benefits. They will even train them.

People aren't taking the offers. They want government jobs, or desk jobs pushing paper. There is a very negative attitude towards physical labor, especially in colleges.

As for abuse, my friend's sister was told "If you want more welfare, have more kids."


I'd take a factory job if I wasn't obese. Fortunately, that problem can be solved, however fat doesn't go away overnight.



thewhitrbbit
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08 Oct 2012, 1:30 pm

Nope, but take it one step at a time. :)



League_Girl
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16 Oct 2012, 4:24 am

There are indeed people abusing it. I don't judge anyone who is on it because I don't know their lives or how they are effected. I only go by what they say. I knew one man in real life who was on it and he said he didn't work because he "didn't have to" and that told me he was abusing it. Sure he had a mental illness but saying he doesn't have to work implies he is capable of working but he is choosing to not get a job because he gets money from Social Security.

I did see an aspie online say on youtube that she is hoping to get social security so she wouldn't have to work. That made me feel angry and disgusted.

I also think not working because you would rather work a job that is your special interest (but yet you can't find one that is) or because you would rather spend time with your special interest is not unable to work. I think that is also abusing the system. That is not what Social Security is for.

Plus my mother has had patients who were on it and they exaggerate their symptoms. She has even caught them in the act and then they see her and go back to pretending their condition is bad than it really is not even knowing she had already seen it before they noticed her.

But however, I knew one man with autism online. He had a special interest with jails and jumpsuits and meat and seemed like to politics and always talked about it but yet he had a job in a music store and then he quit when they cut back his hours and then refused to give him hours. So he would always go and apply for work when he see it and no one would call for an interview. He was on Social Security and I don't think he was abusing it because he was trying to get a job and would go to school when he could afford it. He refused to get grants or loans and then be in debt over it so he went when he could afford it. But yet some thought he was just lazy and kept saying to him online 'go get a job" after he would tell them he applies and no one would call him for an interview. They just couldn't read, he would tell me. He also had no car and the transportation near him sucked so he rode his bike. Then he did got a temporary job at a haunted house in 2010.


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Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.

Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.


Last edited by League_Girl on 16 Oct 2012, 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sweetleaf
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16 Oct 2012, 4:59 am

Sure some people abuse the system....but I think your assessment of the mentally ill was pretty damn ignorant. But there is still lots of stigma about mental illness so I shouldn't be surprised. Just wish I knew this was part of that before I clicked on it.