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DancingDanny
Deinonychus
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16 Oct 2012, 5:07 am

I really think the %70 estimate that was stated is really pulling a number out of the air. If you look at some parts of my life it can look like I'm cheating the system but then again I am working a part time job and persuing something that is full time, am I not? I'm trying to judge whether I can start school but I'm very pessimistic about it because of past failure in organizing myself correctly to succeed in the most complete way.



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16 Oct 2012, 5:08 am

League_Girl wrote:
Plus my mother has had patients who were on it and they exaggerate their symptoms. She has even caught them in the act and then they see her and go back to pretending their condition is bad than it really is not even knowing she had already seen it before they noticed her.


I know there are some fakers but I am skeptical about things like this. I have an aunt that is physically disabled. There may be times when people see her do things that make her seem not as disabled as she is but they wouldn't realize that she might just be having a good day or pay for it with lots of suffering later.



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16 Oct 2012, 7:44 am

hanyo wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Plus my mother has had patients who were on it and they exaggerate their symptoms. She has even caught them in the act and then they see her and go back to pretending their condition is bad than it really is not even knowing she had already seen it before they noticed her.


I know there are some fakers but I am skeptical about things like this. I have an aunt that is physically disabled. There may be times when people see her do things that make her seem not as disabled as she is but they wouldn't realize that she might just be having a good day or pay for it with lots of suffering later.


This is why only a few know I'm on benefits. I once had a disabled person tell me he knows how I feel (he doesn't) and that I shouldn't be on benefits. Bit rich coming from someone who claims he can't walk when he actually does. :roll:

Even my own mother claims I'm lying. :x



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16 Oct 2012, 4:46 pm

hanyo wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Plus my mother has had patients who were on it and they exaggerate their symptoms. She has even caught them in the act and then they see her and go back to pretending their condition is bad than it really is not even knowing she had already seen it before they noticed her.


I know there are some fakers but I am skeptical about things like this. I have an aunt that is physically disabled. There may be times when people see her do things that make her seem not as disabled as she is but they wouldn't realize that she might just be having a good day or pay for it with lots of suffering later.


What I meant was I asked my mother how can she possibly tell her patients exaggerate and she told me that she have a patient for example claim they cannot walk well but yet she see them walking well when she walks in the room and then all of a sudden they go back to limping again when they see her.


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Nick9075
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16 Oct 2012, 8:51 pm

I can't find a job due to a terrible work history in part likely due to undiagnosed bipolar/ADHD along with very poor social skills. I have had many temp jobs in the past year that I got let go from after a few weeks with no explanation other than 'they don't need you anymore' but I would never hear the "real" reason.

I operate a business as an S corp absentee where I do have some money coming in each week (around $1000 - $1500 USD) so I cannot qualify for disability but trust me the stigma, embarassment that you face --- almost like a gigantic mark on your forehead if you are not working.

Tell me, what do you do if you have such an awful work history that McDonalds or Walmart won't hire you??



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21 Oct 2012, 6:30 pm

ooo wrote:
I get "having a medical condition makes life more challenging," but since when it it society's job to bankroll everyone's life?


Since society makes it harder and harder for people to survive, society as a whole has a responsibility to ensure a basic standard of living for those who fall through the cracks. Some of the disabilities SSI supports are results of the structure of society. High crime rates, racism, sexism, lesbiphobia/homophobia, coerced separation from social support systems(being forced to move around for jobs, separated from family by long hours, kicked out for being gay, etc.) lead to depression, anxiety, and other conditions. Then there is all the injuries and mental illness caused by military combat service. The orientation of society around automobiles (where it's nearly impossible to get to work and get groceries without owning a car) causes stress via traffic, physical injuries via large numbers of auto accidents, asthma via smog. Carpel tunnel syndrome, tendinitis, etc. for all the people doing repetitive computer work. The plethora of chemically engineered substances used in day-to-day life lead to various cancers and asthma. Over-development of land and centralizing of agriculture remove the possibility of the old farming practices that kept families together and gave them a way to earn. Cities are organized with grocery stores far away from poor neighborhoods, broken families don't pass down basic skills like instruction in cooking, long work hours deprive people of time to cook, the constantly falling cost of junk food vs. cost and sketchy availability of produce and whole grains: all these add up to obesity and its related conditions: high blood pressure, diabetes, etc.

Then, of, course, there are all the unnecessary social games society plays that keep capable people out of jobs: stigmatization of certain conditions, discrimination, firing people just because they aren't "fun," nepotism. Some people (the "fakers") get tired of all this crap and decide they don't want to work. Human beings are clearly not naturally lazy. Our society sucks the life out of them, and they have or feel they have little power to change things, so they just say f**k it.

Almost forgot the economy making it hard to get a job, even for people who want one! Corporations sending jobs overseas, government rewarding them with tax breaks, minimum wage not keeping up with the cost of living, etc., etc.



steviewonderau
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31 Oct 2012, 9:42 pm

99.99% of people are legitimate. It is the ultra right wing fool who assumes one fraud case out of 1,000 must be the norm and everyone else is guilt by association. Ultra right wing media and politicians are good at spreading their fear campaigns and using scapegoats to influence public opinion.



ComradeKael
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01 Nov 2012, 4:06 am

ooo wrote:
WhiteWidow wrote:
Do you find that people are abusing this system?


YES.

Society has an entitlement attitude.

And, the system rewards those who don't want or try to help themselves.

Get SSDI or welfare? Ok. Make more than the income max and loose your benefits. What incentive does that give someone to work?

Get diagnosed with ANYTHING from schizophrenia to fibromyalgia to depression to... whatever? People's first move these days seems to be "apply to SSDI and/or welfare."

Sure, there are people who truly can't work and need help. But, I've seen countless people welch the system.
Either they refuse to work at all, don't try, are substance abusers, or pop out kids to collect more benefits. It's really sick.

I get "having a medical condition makes life more challenging," but since when it it society's job to bankroll everyone's life?
Most people need temporary help to rehab them into the workforce while they are healing/getting treatment, not permanent benefits for fibromyalgia. No matter your condition, there's someone out there who has it worse. And, I've seen double amputees, people with a tracheotomy, and serious, serious conditions working retail. I respect such people who *work* to overcome their issues, not try to life off the system forever.


Alright. Alright. We understand that you read Ayn Rand when you were twelve and you fancy yourself an intellectual. But would you prefer people who are unable to work to just die? I recently applied for SS because I can not work due to my sensory issues. Unless you believe I should just walk around with my hands clasped over my ears while somehow managing to work a full time job. People with Schizophrenia definitely need assistance, as do people with Autism. Sure. You can work. But as soon as you become a "hassle" you're fired. "But you can sue them for firing you because of your condition." You can't. When you go to apply for jobs now? Read the fine print. It says they can fire you at /any time/ for /any reason/ but you're allowed to "quit at anytime". The amount of individuals who abuse the system is extremely low. Do you think people can get benefits easily? No. You have to jump through hoops even WITH a diagnosis of ANYTHING.

If we can spend BILLIONS of dollars killing people abroad. I think we can spare a little for people back home who need it.



InTheDeepEnd
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01 Nov 2012, 3:30 pm

My best friend is a disability adjudicator in the US so I am very familiar with the process one must go through to get approved. It is NOT easy. A simple diagnosis of anything is not enough to get you approved. They look at your work history, all your medical records, your self-reported daily activities and the reports of your daily life by a non-family person who knows you. They may even send you to one of their doctors for an examination. It takes months, usually a year or more to get a decision. If you worked, you paid into the Social Security system, so why would you not feel entitled to an insurance benefit you paid for? SocSec disability is not the same as AFDC welfare (what people typically think of as a momma with 5 kids living on welfare). I repeat, it is not easy to get SocSec disability. There have been many people my friend thought should have been approved but the government docs said no. And what makes you think sitting at home all day with an illness living on a fixed income is any fun? Have you ever been out of work for a length of time, either because you were between jobs or had a bad flu or something and gotten cabin fever? It's not like these people have all the money in the world to travel and live their dreams! They sit at home and try to find something to make their lives meaningful, if they aren't overwhelmed by just trying to get through a typical day.



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01 Nov 2012, 3:34 pm

InTheDeepEnd wrote:
the reports of your daily life by a non-family person who knows you.


I haven't heard about that before but I don't have any non-family that knows enough about me to report on me. I barely leave the house and mostly only see my mother.



ComradeKael
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01 Nov 2012, 5:01 pm

InTheDeepEnd wrote:
My best friend is a disability adjudicator in the US so I am very familiar with the process one must go through to get approved. It is NOT easy. A simple diagnosis of anything is not enough to get you approved. They look at your work history, all your medical records, your self-reported daily activities and the reports of your daily life by a non-family person who knows you. They may even send you to one of their doctors for an examination. It takes months, usually a year or more to get a decision. If you worked, you paid into the Social Security system, so why would you not feel entitled to an insurance benefit you paid for? SocSec disability is not the same as AFDC welfare (what people typically think of as a momma with 5 kids living on welfare). I repeat, it is not easy to get SocSec disability. There have been many people my friend thought should have been approved but the government docs said no. And what makes you think sitting at home all day with an illness living on a fixed income is any fun? Have you ever been out of work for a length of time, either because you were between jobs or had a bad flu or something and gotten cabin fever? It's not like these people have all the money in the world to travel and live their dreams! They sit at home and try to find something to make their lives meaningful, if they aren't overwhelmed by just trying to get through a typical day.


Thank you for this wonderful post.



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01 Nov 2012, 6:16 pm

ComradeKael wrote:
InTheDeepEnd wrote:
[...]
Thank you for this wonderful post.

^ Yes, thank you from me, also. I couldn't have explained it so well.



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06 Nov 2012, 5:01 pm

InTheDeepEnd wrote:
My best friend is a disability adjudicator in the US so I am very familiar with the process one must go through to get approved. It is NOT easy. A simple diagnosis of anything is not enough to get you approved. They look at your work history, all your medical records, your self-reported daily activities and the reports of your daily life by a non-family person who knows you. They may even send you to one of their doctors for an examination. It takes months, usually a year or more to get a decision. If you worked, you paid into the Social Security system, so why would you not feel entitled to an insurance benefit you paid for? SocSec disability is not the same as AFDC welfare (what people typically think of as a momma with 5 kids living on welfare). I repeat, it is not easy to get SocSec disability. There have been many people my friend thought should have been approved but the government docs said no. And what makes you think sitting at home all day with an illness living on a fixed income is any fun? Have you ever been out of work for a length of time, either because you were between jobs or had a bad flu or something and gotten cabin fever? It's not like these people have all the money in the world to travel and live their dreams! They sit at home and try to find something to make their lives meaningful, if they aren't overwhelmed by just trying to get through a typical day.



I never understood either why would someone not want to work because you make more money when you work than what SS gives you. Some do work while on it but they cannot make over a certain amount. My husband just signed up for it because he had reached his limits and him trying to work full time is harming his health. It is giving him seizures, putting him in lot of pain it makes it hard for him to take care of our child and it be nice if he can do it on his own without our parents helping him every night when I am at work. But when he worked part time, he did better. But full time, he did fine until his mom had a heart attack and he started having seizures again due to the stress. Plus he has an anxiety disorder and he tends to hold it all in and it gives him health problems such as seizures because he has a seizure disorder. He doesn't want to lose his job so he decided to sign up for SS and work part time because he is scared of losing his job. s**t happens in life and there is no way he can control that and when they do happen, he ends up having health problems again because of it due to his disability. We would still be getting almost the same amount of income each month from his job and SS if he gets approved. That is what he told me. He thinks he will get on it the first try because he has so many things wrong with him and he has a whole stack full of his medical records from his doctor appointments over the last few years. But I am not counting on it because I know people get denied all the time.

But however, in my first relationship, my boyfriend didn't want to work. He wanted all the money to himself and he thought it was "retarded" to pay to live and to eat to live and to pay taxes. Plus he never bothered trying hard to get a job when he got fired and I could just see that if he were on SS, he would be sitting at home playing his computer game all day long collecting free money from the gov people's taxes pay into. So there are people out there that do that. He did have a disability too but I think he just wasn't ready to be an adult. He thought like a kid, thought everything should be free, everyone should be handed things. He was twenty, not seven or ten or thirteen. of course I set him straight and then he thought everyone should be handed things they want like if you wan an xbox, you apply for it and they give it to you. He just didn't want to work so he thought that way.

I knew another guy who was on it and he said he didn't work because he didn't have to but yet he lived in a studio. It was one room and a kitchen and bathroom and I wouldn't want to live that way and he didn't seem to mind it. Plus he had no car. I never understood why he would want to live that way.

I also suspect when people say they want to get on it so they wouldn't have to work, they don't realize you don't get much from them and it's still not enough to live off of and you don't get a luxurious life even if you do live on your own. When I was 17, I first heard of it and I thought I wouldn't have to work after all because I have a disability and I told my shrink that and he said they don't give you much and I would have to put up with not being able to buy new games and all or not having a new Nintendo. I thought "I don't want to live like that so I will work after all." I had the wrong concept about it when I first heard of it so I suspect that is what goes on through peoples minds too when they say they want to get on it so they wouldn't have to work. They have the wrong concept too.

From my experience, you can still get on it even if you are capable of work. I could have just chosen to not work and stay at home and watch TV and play video games all day long and do the computer because why go and get a job when I am get disability benefits? But I wanted to work because I felt like a burden and lazy if I don't go out and get a job. Sure I had enough to live off of because I only paid rent and that was it and bought my own shampoo and pads and paid for my own gas. But I still wanted to work. So of course there be people out there who live at home but choose to not get a job because they get disability benefits.

I also used to be critical about people not trying to get off SSI by working full time and be independent without gov help. But the problem is what if they lose their jobs? Then they lose their health insurance if they have a condition and they need their medicine or they die without it or can't function without it and won;t be able to work without it. Some people have a hard time getting jobs due to their disability so if they lose their job, they are screwed and then they be homeless so they are forced to live off the system for survival. I was lucky I had a boyfriend who supported me when I wasn't working anymore because they laid me off due to the economy and then I had no health insurance. I was screwed and it was a lesson I learned about people on SS who refuse to work full time. It was like karma for me. It's not that they want to abuse it or take advantage of it, they just are trying to survive and SS is their safety net they have and no one wants to be in the streets. Plus if they have a condition that will kill them if it's not treated with medication or they can't function without their medicine due to a illness they have, they be screwed with no health insurance because they would not be able to afford their medicine or treatments for it. So they rely on SS for free healthcare. So I blame the system now instead of the people on it who are in this situation.

In Montana, you lose your benefits when you get married so what if two people in love were both on it? Only way to stay on it is to not get married so they are also forced to do it that way or else they have no income and then they be homeless. What if they were both unable to work part time or even full time or unable to work at all, they are both forced to not get married in order to keep collecting those benefits. I blame the system for that too, not the people in this situation. In Oregon you don't lose your benefits.

So there are people who do take advantage of the system because they don't have a choice. It's either that or die and/or be homeless. I don't see it as abusing the system in this situation.

Both my in laws are on it and they have a car, have a mobile home they rent I think. I am not sure if they are on any programs that help pay for the rent. I think they all get food stamps. But their life is no luxury. They don't go on any trips or even go out to places. But yet they do Christmas and buy gifts. I am not sure how they do it. Plus they live with their daughter and grand kids and they support her with them. But my husband has to sometimes help them and also give them gas money for her to come out here or going to the barbecue at their friend's house so he can see them there. We're the only ones with money who can actually help them. They have even borrowed money from us just to buy a car. We have even helped them out with our nephew's birthday parties buy buying another pizza just to help them and my sister in law out. So everyone on SSI or SSDI is different because all their lives on it are different.

I do find it a joke that people like me were able to get on it the first try but people who are way worse off than I am keep getting denied or have to try the first few times to get approved. Even one of my in laws had to get a lawyer to get on it. I don't remember if they both got denied the first time or not. Why is this? Is it just me or do people with milder disabilities get approved the first time and people with more severe disabilities get denied or keep on getting denied?


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starkid
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06 Nov 2012, 5:15 pm

League_Girl wrote:
I never understood either why would someone not want to work because you make more money when you work than what SS gives you.


Some people are willing to live with less in exchange for their freedom from work or full-time work. Some people have no interest in expensive items (video games, TVs, eating out, etc.), so the lack of money for these things doesn't even bother them.



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06 Nov 2012, 5:18 pm

Plus even as little as ssi gives for some people it wouldn't be much less than slaving away all week at some crummy minimum wage job that they probably wouldn't even be able to keep for long.



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06 Nov 2012, 5:32 pm

starkid wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
I never understood either why would someone not want to work because you make more money when you work than what SS gives you.


Some people are willing to live with less in exchange for their freedom from work or full-time work. Some people have no interest in expensive items (video games, TVs, eating out, etc.), so the lack of money for these things doesn't even bother them.


This is a disgusting and offensive statement.

You don't get to take public assistance because you don't want to work. Sickening.