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johnny77
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30 Jun 2012, 4:08 pm

CyclopsSummers wrote:
Uh, yeah, I am diagnosed autistic, and I just want to distance myself from Smorrow's statement. 'NTs', -much as I dislike to use the word, but since we're using it in this thread- are my family, my friends, my acquaintances, classmates, co-workers. I love them and they love me, and they have made me the man I am today.

I've always said it: the non-autistic perspective on this forum is invaluable for coming to a proper understanding of social interactions in general. If we just lock ourselves up in one big autistic virtual biodome, we run away from the problems we each individually face. Because deny if you will, those of us who are diagnosed were diagnosed because at one point in our life, be hit in childhood or adulthood, we ran into some kind of 'snag', to put it euphemistically. You don't get diagnosed with something that's in the DSM by filling in a personality test in a lifestyle magazine.


I will speak for my self as not to stir the proverbial dust. My profile says undiagnosed/self diagnosed, however this is a half truth because I wish to limit what is in my medical record I paid cash to a psychologists to preform the test not using any names. To me the diagnosis is only important to Dr.s and government offices because I chose not to get their help I don't want it my record to used against me at there convenience. If you can't think how it can be used against you just watch child custody cases in the U.S.



Rascal77s
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30 Jun 2012, 4:11 pm

LeeTimmer wrote:
PTSmorrow wrote:
I'm pissed off by NT's who are trying to tell me i should blend in and i wish i could find a place where they don't hang out and the only members are people on the spectrum. Also by all those self--diagnosed, aka wannabe--aspies. Both groups should remain in the position of observers here on WP. I know, the rules say WP is for everyone yada yada, but that doesn't mean i have to like it. Since almost the whole planet is already controlled by NT's, it would be nice to have a resort they can't access.


Lighten up, Francis. I'm officially diagnosed, but I feel very badly for those who are self-diagnosed but can't get the official diagnosis, a situation that applies mainly to older adults who have learned to compensate and had to go through hell as children. If you don't like "wannabes," create your own site.


The problem with us adults is that many of us haven't learned to compensate enough to really get by in society and we still go through hell. Many of us can't hold down a job and there really are no services for adults. What happens is we are priced out of a diagnosis. I know this happens to young people too but it's especially a problem for adults. I'm glad kids today have access to in school programs and testing because it would have benefited me a lot as a child. The only IEP they had when I was in k-12 was send you to the 'bad kids' school. But anyway.... yeah, I don't believe in excluding anyone from WP either unless they're here to be assholes.



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30 Jun 2012, 4:13 pm

LeeTimmer wrote:
PTSmorrow wrote:
I'm pissed off by NT's who are trying to tell me i should blend in and i wish i could find a place where they don't hang out and the only members are people on the spectrum. Also by all those self--diagnosed, aka wannabe--aspies. Both groups should remain in the position of observers here on WP. I know, the rules say WP is for everyone yada yada, but that doesn't mean i have to like it. Since almost the whole planet is already controlled by NT's, it would be nice to have a resort they can't access.


Lighten up, Francis. I'm officially diagnosed, but I feel very badly for those who are self-diagnosed but can't get the official diagnosis, a situation that applies mainly to older adults who have learned to compensate and had to go through hell as children. If you don't like "wannabes," create your own site.


I am waiting on an official assessment but I like your post.

To the OP at the moment I may be self diagnosed but I am not an Aspie wantabe living with this has been pure Hell.

I am not going to attack the OP I guess his life must have been Hell and maybe he is venting off steam I know how it feels.

OP you have got it wrong but we forgive you. :)



Callista
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30 Jun 2012, 4:15 pm

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I wouldn't say self diagnosed people are "wannabe aspies" at all. From my perspective I'm not sure why anyone would want to be an aspie, it's a pretty hard existence imho. I'm self diagnosed and I have significant trouble with social interaction and have many other traits, but just because I choose not get a diagnosis does that make me a wannabe? Just because I wasn't severely affected enough as a child to get an early diagnosis I'm a wannabe?
To be honest I don't mind NTs coming here, I generally have a good relationship with NTs considering all my friends are NTs even though I suspect a few have traits. I think it's silly to separate people into different classes, NT or aspie. At the end of the day we're all human with different personalities and difficulties and we all have a lot to learn from eachother. I quite like that this site is open to NTs, but what annoys me are people who think that this site should be exclusively aspie or people who have qualms others with being self-diagnosed. I think people can be too paranoid and just need to take things at face-value at some times.
We all live on a spectrum and I'm happy to accept people who even aren't on the spectrum but possess traits. Because they need help and support as well with their difficulties. I guess I'm just a little bit of a philanthropist really... I think that's the way we all should be! imho.

Hope what I've said makes sense and I haven't digressed too much as I'm prone to doing...
Thanks for saying that. We do need the NT perspective; diversity is a good thing. And you're right--who would want to be called an Aspie, unless they already were one? Being an Aspie is foreign to someone who's NT; it's not who they are and they wouldn't want to be known as one. Whereas, if you're Aspie but undiagnosed because your parents, doctors, or society had no clue, then wouldn't it be part of affirming your identity to say, "Hey, yeah, I'm different"?

I'm officially diagnosed several times over (because every doctor has a different opinion of where I am on the spectrum, drat them and their hair-splitting). And yet I can still understand why someone might be self-diagnosed. Maybe they can't get a doctor to listen to them, or can't pay for a doctor. Maybe their insurance will go up, their job will discriminate against them, or their school will marginalize them if they're known to have a disability. Maybe in their country there simply isn't enough access to medical care, or enough knowledge of autism. Maybe they are worried about discrimination to the point that they have to stay "in the closet" and do their best on their own. There are many, many reasons. Even in cases of fraud, autism is not the sort of disorder that lends itself easily to a con man. With its life-long nature, autism is just not something you can fake very easily. Fakers tend to go for chronic injuries and illnesses with subtle symptoms--psychological disorders (including neurological ones like autism) are at the bottom of the list because of their low social status. There's just no reason to choose autism when there are so many more attractive options for fraud out there.

Is there a danger that you might mis-diagnose yourself? Yes, certainly. Even professional doctors make mistakes. Usually, when somebody does that, what they have is a related disorder--maybe social anxiety disorder, depression, avoidant personality, or ADHD. It's certainly not ideal; but what do you expect of those people? Unable to access medical care for some reason, they have to do their best. At the worst, they'll share some traits with people on the spectrum, and perhaps learn some things that can help them, too. Autism doesn't exist in a vacuum; it's related to lots of other different disorders, and the ones that are most closely related are the ones most likely to be mistaken for autism. If you had to make a mistake like that, at least you're most likely to make it in a way that can still afford you some help.

Bottom line being--self-diagnosed and NT people are an integral part of Wrong Planet. If we get elitist, we'll lose most of the usefulness that we have as a community to people who come to visit and exchange ideas. Heck, if WP got elitist enough, I'd probably just leave. That kind of thing makes me literally sick to my stomach, and if I can't talk people out of it, I tend to avoid it, because I prefer not to see my breakfast a second time.


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LeeTimmer
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30 Jun 2012, 4:15 pm

Rascal77s wrote:
LeeTimmer wrote:
PTSmorrow wrote:
I'm pissed off by NT's who are trying to tell me i should blend in and i wish i could find a place where they don't hang out and the only members are people on the spectrum. Also by all those self--diagnosed, aka wannabe--aspies. Both groups should remain in the position of observers here on WP. I know, the rules say WP is for everyone yada yada, but that doesn't mean i have to like it. Since almost the whole planet is already controlled by NT's, it would be nice to have a resort they can't access.


Lighten up, Francis. I'm officially diagnosed, but I feel very badly for those who are self-diagnosed but can't get the official diagnosis, a situation that applies mainly to older adults who have learned to compensate and had to go through hell as children. If you don't like "wannabes," create your own site.


The problem with us adults is that many of us haven't learned to compensate enough to really get by in society and we still go through hell. Many of us can't hold down a job and there really are no services for adults. What happens is we are priced out of a diagnosis. I know this happens to young people too but it's especially a problem for adults. I'm glad kids today have access to in school programs and testing because it would have benefited me a lot as a child. The only IEP they had when I was in k-12 was send you to the 'bad kids' school. But anyway.... yeah, I don't believe in excluding anyone from WP either unless they're here to be assholes.


I didn't mean to imply that many adults still don't go through hell daily, so my apologies for any misunderstanding. I certainly still have my days (which can seem like weeks). Honestly, I don't know what I'd do if I lost my current job (account analyst), which is a very routine-oriented job.



League_Girl
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30 Jun 2012, 4:16 pm

sharkattack wrote:
LeeTimmer wrote:
PTSmorrow wrote:
I'm pissed off by NT's who are trying to tell me i should blend in and i wish i could find a place where they don't hang out and the only members are people on the spectrum. Also by all those self--diagnosed, aka wannabe--aspies. Both groups should remain in the position of observers here on WP. I know, the rules say WP is for everyone yada yada, but that doesn't mean i have to like it. Since almost the whole planet is already controlled by NT's, it would be nice to have a resort they can't access.


Lighten up, Francis. I'm officially diagnosed, but I feel very badly for those who are self-diagnosed but can't get the official diagnosis, a situation that applies mainly to older adults who have learned to compensate and had to go through hell as children. If you don't like "wannabes," create your own site.


I am waiting on an official assessment but I like your post.

To the OP at the moment I may be self diagnosed but I am not an Aspie wantabe living with this has been pure Hell.

I am not going to attack the OP I guess his life must have been Hell and maybe he is venting off steam I know how it feels.

OP you have got it wrong but we forgive you. :)



What did the OP do? I think you mean PTSmorrow?


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I have a quilt of labels. I had a language disorder and a speech disorder. Then communication disorder NOS. My other diagnoses have been Language Processing disorder, dyspraxia, SPD, OCD, ADD, Asperger’s, anxiety disorder, adjustment disorder, anorexia nervosa. My mom’s labels of me are: eating disorder, anorexia, social anxiety, PTSD, just being sensitive and having the victim complex when I was a kid. And of course she says I’m normal and says the only thing I had as a child was language. Huh? I must have been a shitty person then and maybe a difficult child I was who had to be labeled because of incompetent school staff and mean kids who didn’t accept differences and because I was trying to be “normal.” :/

My blog: https://mynoneabdlthoughts.wordpress.com/


sharkattack
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30 Jun 2012, 4:21 pm

League_Girl wrote:
sharkattack wrote:
LeeTimmer wrote:
PTSmorrow wrote:
I'm pissed off by NT's who are trying to tell me i should blend in and i wish i could find a place where they don't hang out and the only members are people on the spectrum. Also by all those self--diagnosed, aka wannabe--aspies. Both groups should remain in the position of observers here on WP. I know, the rules say WP is for everyone yada yada, but that doesn't mean i have to like it. Since almost the whole planet is already controlled by NT's, it would be nice to have a resort they can't access.


Lighten up, Francis. I'm officially diagnosed, but I feel very badly for those who are self-diagnosed but can't get the official diagnosis, a situation that applies mainly to older adults who have learned to compensate and had to go through hell as children. If you don't like "wannabes," create your own site.


I am waiting on an official assessment but I like your post.

To the OP at the moment I may be self diagnosed but I am not an Aspie wantabe living with this has been pure Hell.

I am not going to attack the OP I guess his life must have been Hell and maybe he is venting off steam I know how it feels.

OP you have got it wrong but we forgive you. :)



What did the OP do? I think you mean PTSmorrow?


No I am responding to a post I agree with which I know is not the OP.

The OP is fed up with self diagnosed and NT people on the site.

So I guess I am responding to two people but only quoting one.

This is what I love about people with Aspergers we can ask people to clarify posts without meaning or taking insult.

On a NT forum a misunderstanding like this would have the insults flying. :)



McAnulty
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30 Jun 2012, 4:26 pm

Rascal77s wrote:
PTSmorrow wrote:
I'm pissed off by NT's who are trying to tell me i should blend in and i wish i could find a place where they don't hang out and the only members are people on the spectrum. Also by all those self--diagnosed, aka wannabe--aspies. Both groups should remain in the position of observers here on WP. I know, the rules say WP is for everyone yada yada, but that doesn't mean i have to like it. Since almost the whole planet is already controlled by NT's, it would be nice to have a resort they can't access.


With as much bitching as goes on in this forum about NT's not understanding ASD why wouldn't you welcome people that want to learn about the condition? And why wouldn't you want to learn from them. Also, many if not most, people with AS self diagnose as a step leading to a clinical diagnosis. You can't assume people are too ignorant to figure out what's wrong with them just because they didn't go to college for 8 years. Above all, I'll assume you wouldn't want to be excluded from 'NT sites', so why would you want NT's excluded from an ASD site? Seems pretty hypocritical to me.


Thanks for that. I was thinking the same thing but didn't want to risk being yelled at. Prejudice goes both ways and I always find it hard to understand why the people who are complaining NT's don't bother to understand them are the same ones who are always bashing us and pushing us further away even when some of us (especially those of us on this site) are trying.



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30 Jun 2012, 4:31 pm

sharkattack wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
sharkattack wrote:
LeeTimmer wrote:
PTSmorrow wrote:
I'm pissed off by NT's who are trying to tell me i should blend in and i wish i could find a place where they don't hang out and the only members are people on the spectrum. Also by all those self--diagnosed, aka wannabe--aspies. Both groups should remain in the position of observers here on WP. I know, the rules say WP is for everyone yada yada, but that doesn't mean i have to like it. Since almost the whole planet is already controlled by NT's, it would be nice to have a resort they can't access.


Lighten up, Francis. I'm officially diagnosed, but I feel very badly for those who are self-diagnosed but can't get the official diagnosis, a situation that applies mainly to older adults who have learned to compensate and had to go through hell as children. If you don't like "wannabes," create your own site.


I am waiting on an official assessment but I like your post.

To the OP at the moment I may be self diagnosed but I am not an Aspie wantabe living with this has been pure Hell.

I am not going to attack the OP I guess his life must have been Hell and maybe he is venting off steam I know how it feels.

OP you have got it wrong but we forgive you. :)



What did the OP do? I think you mean PTSmorrow?


No I am responding to a post I agree with which I know is not the OP.

The OP is fed up with self diagnosed and NT people on the site.

So I guess I am responding to two people but only quoting one.

This is what I love about people with Aspergers we can ask people to clarify posts without meaning or taking insult.

On a NT forum a misunderstanding like this would have the insults flying. :)



Sometimes people still get offended, especially the ones on the spectrum, when I ask. They go like "can't you read?" "Did I say that?" You can't win.


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I have a quilt of labels. I had a language disorder and a speech disorder. Then communication disorder NOS. My other diagnoses have been Language Processing disorder, dyspraxia, SPD, OCD, ADD, Asperger’s, anxiety disorder, adjustment disorder, anorexia nervosa. My mom’s labels of me are: eating disorder, anorexia, social anxiety, PTSD, just being sensitive and having the victim complex when I was a kid. And of course she says I’m normal and says the only thing I had as a child was language. Huh? I must have been a shitty person then and maybe a difficult child I was who had to be labeled because of incompetent school staff and mean kids who didn’t accept differences and because I was trying to be “normal.” :/

My blog: https://mynoneabdlthoughts.wordpress.com/


Rascal77s
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30 Jun 2012, 4:33 pm

McAnulty wrote:
Rascal77s wrote:
PTSmorrow wrote:
I'm pissed off by NT's who are trying to tell me i should blend in and i wish i could find a place where they don't hang out and the only members are people on the spectrum. Also by all those self--diagnosed, aka wannabe--aspies. Both groups should remain in the position of observers here on WP. I know, the rules say WP is for everyone yada yada, but that doesn't mean i have to like it. Since almost the whole planet is already controlled by NT's, it would be nice to have a resort they can't access.


With as much bitching as goes on in this forum about NT's not understanding ASD why wouldn't you welcome people that want to learn about the condition? And why wouldn't you want to learn from them. Also, many if not most, people with AS self diagnose as a step leading to a clinical diagnosis. You can't assume people are too ignorant to figure out what's wrong with them just because they didn't go to college for 8 years. Above all, I'll assume you wouldn't want to be excluded from 'NT sites', so why would you want NT's excluded from an ASD site? Seems pretty hypocritical to me.


Thanks for that. I was thinking the same thing but didn't want to risk being yelled at. Prejudice goes both ways and I always find it hard to understand why the people who are complaining NT's don't bother to understand them are the same ones who are always bashing us and pushing us further away even when some of us (especially those of us on this site) are trying.


I like being yelled at, it gives me a reason to yell :D



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30 Jun 2012, 4:36 pm

League_Girl wrote:
sharkattack wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
sharkattack wrote:
LeeTimmer wrote:
PTSmorrow wrote:
I'm pissed off by NT's who are trying to tell me i should blend in and i wish i could find a place where they don't hang out and the only members are people on the spectrum. Also by all those self--diagnosed, aka wannabe--aspies. Both groups should remain in the position of observers here on WP. I know, the rules say WP is for everyone yada yada, but that doesn't mean i have to like it. Since almost the whole planet is already controlled by NT's, it would be nice to have a resort they can't access.


Lighten up, Francis. I'm officially diagnosed, but I feel very badly for those who are self-diagnosed but can't get the official diagnosis, a situation that applies mainly to older adults who have learned to compensate and had to go through hell as children. If you don't like "wannabes," create your own site.


I am waiting on an official assessment but I like your post.

To the OP at the moment I may be self diagnosed but I am not an Aspie wantabe living with this has been pure Hell.

I am not going to attack the OP I guess his life must have been Hell and maybe he is venting off steam I know how it feels.

OP you have got it wrong but we forgive you. :)



What did the OP do? I think you mean PTSmorrow?


No I am responding to a post I agree with which I know is not the OP.

The OP is fed up with self diagnosed and NT people on the site.

So I guess I am responding to two people but only quoting one.

This is what I love about people with Aspergers we can ask people to clarify posts without meaning or taking insult.

On a NT forum a misunderstanding like this would have the insults flying. :)



Sometimes people still get offended, especially the ones on the spectrum, when I ask. They go like "can't you read?" "Did I say that?" You can't win.


Having Aspergers myself I find anything social a big effort.

People who get offended easily are simply not worth the effort .

Some people go out of their way to be offended. :)



Matt62
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30 Jun 2012, 7:25 pm

I thought the OP was asking NTs why they come here, what are their reasons for doing so?
This thread has de-railed IMHO.
It is MOST unfortunate that there are those on the Spectrum who do seem to want to be the members of some "Elite" group. Whatever..
However, unless some one is being hugely rude, trolling, or picking fights, bullying, etc. I see no problem with WP being open to everyone who wants to be here..
BTW, there are also forums here that are not so public that can be used.

Sincerely,
Matthew



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30 Jun 2012, 7:36 pm

Matt62 wrote:
I thought the OP was asking NTs why they come here, what are their reasons for doing so?
This thread has de-railed IMHO.
It is MOST unfortunate that there are those on the Spectrum who do seem to want to be the members of some "Elite" group. Whatever..
However, unless some one is being hugely rude, trolling, or picking fights, bullying, etc. I see no problem with WP being open to everyone who wants to be here..
BTW, there are also forums here that are not so public that can be used.

Sincerely,
Matthew



That is exactly whyt this topic was started. I did not mean to upset anyone. I am not on this site to cause any trouble. I am here to learn as much as I can about AS and support my husband.

:) WW



Washi
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30 Jun 2012, 7:44 pm

I think most of the NT's that come here are as someone else said family members and friends to people on the spectrum and they come here for better understanding and some are people who have only a few autistic traits and they come here hoping to better understand themselves.



Last edited by Washi on 30 Jun 2012, 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

McAnulty
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30 Jun 2012, 7:46 pm

You didn't cause trouble, people get upset here all the time. Don't let it scare you off!