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Xenu
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04 Jul 2012, 2:20 pm

Image
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S9dwP-fV3o&feature=share[/youtube]
First off read that picture and watch this video. If come out still thinking that Socialized Health care is a good idea then there is something seriously wrong with you. And if you think that it is a good idea to even try to attempt it in our current economic state where we are on the brink of a second great depression then you clearly have no idea how money works. First off Socialized Health care is wrong for all the reasons the video stated, AS WELL as the fact with how easy it would be to abuse and how many bottom feeding welfare moochers would abuse the system. Second is the issue that this FORCES you to buy this healthcare plan or else you will be fined which is GOVERNMENT CONTROL! We shouldn't be forced to buy something we might not want and WE DEFINITELY should not be forced to pay for bottom feeders! Not only does this have the potential to literally cripple our economy with how expensive it will be and how f****d our economy currently is but it also is catering to the lazy stupid low lifes who refuse to go to college and get a job and steal my tax dollars.



SpiritBlooms
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04 Jul 2012, 2:27 pm

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Last edited by SpiritBlooms on 09 Jul 2012, 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Vigilans
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04 Jul 2012, 2:31 pm

Typical Donald Trump bombast


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VIDEODROME
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04 Jul 2012, 2:40 pm

My understanding is the Canadian plan is largely a Provincial plan. I kind of like that respect of the local government's jurisdiction.

When American presidential candidates want to reform anything entirely using Federal central planning it makes me nervous. We have all these state governments maybe we could include them in a healthcare safety net initiative.



Xenu
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04 Jul 2012, 2:44 pm

SpiritBlooms wrote:
This health care plan isn't socialized medicine. You don't understand the meaning of socialized medicine. This is corporate enhancement medicine. True socialized medicine would be single payer, it would not involve corporate insurance companies, corporate medicine, and corporate pharmaceuticals. It would be a lot less costly.

But the current plan is better than what we had before for some people, who couldn't get insurance at all. It's a step in the right direction, albeit a baby step, and far too complex to be practical as a baby step.

It's not perfect, but it is a slight improvement on what we had before. We still need a lot of work on this issue though, so anyone who is complacent that this is the answer is wrong.


The issue is first of all WE CAN'T AFFORD THIS. Second of all is health care is not a right and many people don't want to be FORCED to pay for something they don't want.



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04 Jul 2012, 4:19 pm

I'm for socialized medicine. I think it's for the public good just like the way people get to go to school for free. It's an essential service that people shouldn't have to directly pay for like schools, police, and the fire department.

Aren't the "bottom feeding welfare moochers" already on Medicaid? If not should they be denied health care just because they can't afford it?



Xenu
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04 Jul 2012, 4:21 pm

hanyo wrote:
I'm for socialized medicine. I think it's for the public good just like the way people get to go to school for free. It's an essential service that people shouldn't have to directly pay for like schools, police, and the fire department.

Aren't the "bottom feeding welfare moochers" already on Medicaid? If not should they be denied health care just because they can't afford it?


I think medicaid should be abolioshed, it's their fault they can't afford it. And it's not an essential service and Obamacare isn't free either.



hanyo
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04 Jul 2012, 4:23 pm

Xenu wrote:

I think medicaid should be abolioshed, it's their fault they can't afford it. And it's not an essential service and Obamacare isn't free either.


I don't think that.

Then enjoy prices going up even more because of all the people that need to go to the emergency room and run up expensive bills to get any health care at all and then just not pay the bill.



Xenu
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04 Jul 2012, 4:29 pm

hanyo wrote:
Xenu wrote:

I think medicaid should be abolioshed, it's their fault they can't afford it. And it's not an essential service and Obamacare isn't free either.


I don't think that.

Then enjoy prices going up even more because of all the people that need to go to the emergency room and run up expensive bills to get any health care at all and then just not pay the bill.


Well I'm sorry you have an uncivilized view on politics and economics.

And it's peoples own damn fault for not being able to afford insurance. Forcing people to buy this plan whether they want it or not is not the way to go about things.



hanyo
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04 Jul 2012, 4:34 pm

Xenu wrote:

And it's peoples own damn fault for not being able to afford insurance. Forcing people to buy this plan whether they want it or not is not the way to go about things.


So if you are physically or mentally disabled and can't work and because of this live off welfare or get disability or get supported by a relative and can't afford health care you don't deserve it and should just go die?

Whether it's this plan or something else something needs to be done.



Xenu
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04 Jul 2012, 4:37 pm

hanyo wrote:
Xenu wrote:

And it's peoples own damn fault for not being able to afford insurance. Forcing people to buy this plan whether they want it or not is not the way to go about things.


So if you are physically or mentally disabled and can't work and because of this live off welfare or get disability or get supported by a relative and can't afford health care you don't deserve it and should just go die?

Whether it's this plan or something else something needs to be done.


Having Aspergers doesn't make it so you can't work, and the people with Aspergers that try to claim that make me sick, I and plenty other people have Aspergers and while working may be a bit more challenging then most I'm not going to be a baby and just refuse to work because of some difficulties i can get past. And personally if somebody is physically disabled or mentally disabled to the point where they aren't able to contribute whatsoever then I'm honestly in favor of euthanizing them as they are a tax burden and they probably don't want to be alive because of their situation in the first place (or in the mentally retarded they don't even fully know they are alive in the first place).



SpiritBlooms
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04 Jul 2012, 6:02 pm

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Last edited by SpiritBlooms on 09 Jul 2012, 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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05 Jul 2012, 1:46 pm

VIDEODROME wrote:
My understanding is the Canadian plan is largely a Provincial plan. I kind of like that respect of the local government's jurisdiction.

When American presidential candidates want to reform anything entirely using Federal central planning it makes me nervous. We have all these state governments maybe we could include them in a healthcare safety net initiative.


Well, yes and no.

The reality is that the Feds pay the bill through health transfers to the provinces. The provinces, in turn, are obliged to comply with the Canada Health Act in order to continue to receive the transfers. This allows the federal government to set policy in an area of provincial jurisdiction. It is highly controversial among Conservatives, and a subject of debate among Liberals; but it is so well entrenched into Canadian federalism that it is not likely to be disturbed anytime soon.


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05 Jul 2012, 1:49 pm

Xenu wrote:
hanyo wrote:
Xenu wrote:

I think medicaid should be abolioshed, it's their fault they can't afford it. And it's not an essential service and Obamacare isn't free either.


I don't think that.

Then enjoy prices going up even more because of all the people that need to go to the emergency room and run up expensive bills to get any health care at all and then just not pay the bill.


Well I'm sorry you have an uncivilized view on politics and economics.

And it's peoples own damn fault for not being able to afford insurance. Forcing people to buy this plan whether they want it or not is not the way to go about things.
You used Trump as reasoning...


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05 Jul 2012, 1:54 pm

Xenu wrote:
hanyo wrote:
Xenu wrote:

And it's peoples own damn fault for not being able to afford insurance. Forcing people to buy this plan whether they want it or not is not the way to go about things.


So if you are physically or mentally disabled and can't work and because of this live off welfare or get disability or get supported by a relative and can't afford health care you don't deserve it and should just go die?

Whether it's this plan or something else something needs to be done.


Having Aspergers doesn't make it so you can't work, and the people with Aspergers that try to claim that make me sick, I and plenty other people have Aspergers and while working may be a bit more challenging then most I'm not going to be a baby and just refuse to work because of some difficulties i can get past. And personally if somebody is physically disabled or mentally disabled to the point where they aren't able to contribute whatsoever then I'm honestly in favor of euthanizing them as they are a tax burden and they probably don't want to be alive because of their situation in the first place (or in the mentally retarded they don't even fully know they are alive in the first place).
this could very well apply to most people on this forum. If you are autistic then you are mentally disabled. In turn you probably do not want to be alive. Let's go get euthanized. (I am in no way saying I believe autism is a mental disability or that it affects intelligence. But there are some people who would think it would)


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05 Jul 2012, 2:04 pm

Xenu wrote:
The issue is first of all WE CAN'T AFFORD THIS. Second of all is health care is not a right and many people don't want to be FORCED to pay for something they don't want.


Of course you can afford it. You have the largest economy on the planet, and individuals are vastly undertaxed compared with almost any other country in the OECD.

No one has suggested that government programs should be founded on citizens' rights. You don't have a right to an education, but government provides schools. You don't have a right to buy imported goods and to export the goods that you make--but the government enters into trade agreements.

And finally, the fact that many people don't want the program does not make it unconstitutional, illegal or improper.

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I think medicaid should be abolioshed, it's their fault they can't afford it. And it's not an essential service and Obamacare isn't free either.


Since when does fault enter into the picture? Insurance isn't about laying blame--insurance is about protecting you from catastrophic expenses for things that are your fault. You cause a motor vehicle accident--it's your liability insurance that covers the damage you caused. You fail to shovel your front walk and your friend falls and breaks a hip--it's your homeowner's insurance that covers the damage that you caused.

Insurance is about protecting you from your faults.

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Well I'm sorry you have an uncivilized view on politics and economics.

And it's peoples own damn fault for not being able to afford insurance. Forcing people to buy this plan whether they want it or not is not the way to go about things.


When someone needs a definition of "irony," we can now point them to this statement.

Civilization is about the bringing together of people within cultural frameworks that provide for mutual exchange of knowledge, prosperity and protection. You, on the other hand, would see people cut off from civilization by reason of their financial capacity. This is no less uncivilized than Scrooge's, "then let them die and decrease the surplus population."

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Having Aspergers doesn't make it so you can't work, and the people with Aspergers that try to claim that make me sick, I and plenty other people have Aspergers and while working may be a bit more challenging then most I'm not going to be a baby and just refuse to work because of some difficulties i can get past. And personally if somebody is physically disabled or mentally disabled to the point where they aren't able to contribute whatsoever then I'm honestly in favor of euthanizing them as they are a tax burden and they probably don't want to be alive because of their situation in the first place (or in the mentally retarded they don't even fully know they are alive in the first place).


Who said anything about Asperger's?

As for your euthanasia proposals, and the suggestion that people who are disabled probably don't want to be alive because of their situation, you cannot be as stupid as those statements suggest. If you aren't going to participate in this forum as a rational adult, then perhaps you need to go back to the teen forum.

I am all for people having opinions--even unpopular opinions. But I will not sit idly by and let stupidity go unchallenged.


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