How to deal with Idiots?
06 Jul 2012, 9:08 am
Verdandi wrote:
Dirtdigger wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
How do you deal with idiots who think vaccines cause autism and advocate harmful therapies? They are so thickheaded....
I don't think these people are idiots who think vaccines or at least an additive to vaccines can cause autism. There are a variety of things that cause autism including premature births, but vaccines are just one of them. I have been hearing on the news about these autism causing vaccines for some time now. So the best thing we can do is do our research before we resort to name calling.
VACCINES CAUSING AUTISM
Besides this article there are many more.
Vaccines don't cause autism. Andrew Wakefield lost his license to practice in the UK because of the way he tried to promote the notion that vaccines cause autism.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 0X01000974
And neither does the article in the link I posted. It was the additive called thimerosal which is a preservative that was put in vaccines and that is why it was removed. Did you read the article? If you did you would have seen the name of the additive. So why do you think removing an additive is a conspiracy?
Quote:
Abstract
The hypothesis that MMR vaccines cause autism was first raised by reports of cases in which developmental regression occurred soon after MMR vaccination. A previous study found no evidence to support this hypothesis. It has recently been suggested that MMR vaccine might cause autism, but that the induction interval need not be short. The data from the earlier study were reanalysed to test this second hypothesis. Our results do not support this hypothesis, and provide further evidence against a causal association between MMR vaccination and autism.
The hypothesis that MMR vaccines cause autism was first raised by reports of cases in which developmental regression occurred soon after MMR vaccination. A previous study found no evidence to support this hypothesis. It has recently been suggested that MMR vaccine might cause autism, but that the induction interval need not be short. The data from the earlier study were reanalysed to test this second hypothesis. Our results do not support this hypothesis, and provide further evidence against a causal association between MMR vaccination and autism.
Quote:
Abstract
Although child vaccination rates remain high, some parental concern persists that vaccines might cause autism. Three specific hypotheses have been proposed: (1) the combination measles-mumps-rubella vaccine causes autism by damaging the intestinal lining, which allows the entrance of encephalopathic proteins; (2) thimerosal, an ethylmercury-containing preservative in some vaccines, is toxic to the central nervous system; and (3) the simultaneous administration of multiple vaccines overwhelms or weakens the immune system. We will discuss the genesis of each of these theories and review the relevant epidemiological evidence.
A worldwide increase in the rate of autism diagnoses—likely driven by broadened diagnostic criteria and increased awareness—has fueled concerns that an environmental exposure like vaccines might cause autism. Theories for this putative association have centered on the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine, thimerosal, and the large number of vaccines currently administered. However, both epidemiological and biological studies fail to support these claims.
Although child vaccination rates remain high, some parental concern persists that vaccines might cause autism. Three specific hypotheses have been proposed: (1) the combination measles-mumps-rubella vaccine causes autism by damaging the intestinal lining, which allows the entrance of encephalopathic proteins; (2) thimerosal, an ethylmercury-containing preservative in some vaccines, is toxic to the central nervous system; and (3) the simultaneous administration of multiple vaccines overwhelms or weakens the immune system. We will discuss the genesis of each of these theories and review the relevant epidemiological evidence.
A worldwide increase in the rate of autism diagnoses—likely driven by broadened diagnostic criteria and increased awareness—has fueled concerns that an environmental exposure like vaccines might cause autism. Theories for this putative association have centered on the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine, thimerosal, and the large number of vaccines currently administered. However, both epidemiological and biological studies fail to support these claims.
Last edited by Dirtdigger on 06 Jul 2012, 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
06 Jul 2012, 10:19 am
ghoti wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
Never argue with an idiot. Logically it should work but it rarely does.
Or as i have seen: Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
I knew that but I wanted to be original rather than whimsical. There's another version that runs "......people might not see the difference."
I also know what your screen name "ghoti" has to do with your avatar. At least I think I do.
06 Jul 2012, 10:43 am
b9 wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
How do you deal with idiots
you make sure you have control of the deck
There is 2 sides to every argument and that is why we need to check out several articles on the pros and cons. And we need to make sure we don't take anything out of context either. Just because there are conflicting viewpoints don't necessarily make people idiots.
I was told I didn't know what I was talking about and then was called an idiot because this person that resorted to this didn't bother to read what I read about the Affordable Care Act. So we need to respect what the others are saying even if we don't agree and don't resort to name calling. So there are debates and than there are personal attacks!
Delphiki
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06 Jul 2012, 10:46 am
Dirtdigger wrote:
b9 wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
How do you deal with idiots
you make sure you have control of the deck
There is 2 sides to every argument and that is why we need to check out several articles on the pros and cons. And we need to make sure we don't take anything out of context either. Just because there are conflicting viewpoints don't necessarily make people idiots.
I was told I didn't know what I was talking about and then was called an idiot because this person that resorted to this didn't bother to read what I read about the Affordable Care Act. So we need to respect what the others are saying even if we don't agree and don't resort to name calling. So there are debates and than there are personal attacks!
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Well you can go with that if you want.
06 Jul 2012, 10:53 am
Delphiki wrote:
Dirtdigger wrote:
b9 wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
How do you deal with idiots
you make sure you have control of the deck
There is 2 sides to every argument and that is why we need to check out several articles on the pros and cons. And we need to make sure we don't take anything out of context either. Just because there are conflicting viewpoints don't necessarily make people idiots.
I was told I didn't know what I was talking about and then was called an idiot because this person that resorted to this didn't bother to read what I read about the Affordable Care Act. So we need to respect what the others are saying even if we don't agree and don't resort to name calling. So there are debates and than there are personal attacks!
This topic is about calling people idiots because they claim vaccines cause Autism which is not true if the article was read. b9 is off topic because we aren't talking about playing cards. And the main issue here are people being called idiots because they have different viewpoints than us.
Delphiki
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06 Jul 2012, 10:56 am
Dirtdigger wrote:
Delphiki wrote:
Dirtdigger wrote:
b9 wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
How do you deal with idiots
you make sure you have control of the deck
There is 2 sides to every argument and that is why we need to check out several articles on the pros and cons. And we need to make sure we don't take anything out of context either. Just because there are conflicting viewpoints don't necessarily make people idiots.
I was told I didn't know what I was talking about and then was called an idiot because this person that resorted to this didn't bother to read what I read about the Affordable Care Act. So we need to respect what the others are saying even if we don't agree and don't resort to name calling. So there are debates and than there are personal attacks!
This topic is about calling people idiots because they claim vaccines cause Autism which is not true if the article was read. b9 is off topic because we aren't talking about playing cards. And the main issue here are people being called idiots because they have different viewpoints than us.
_________________
Well you can go with that if you want.
06 Jul 2012, 11:14 am
ToughDiamond wrote:
ghoti wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
Never argue with an idiot. Logically it should work but it rarely does.
Or as i have seen: Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
I knew that but I wanted to be original rather than whimsical. There's another version that runs "......people might not see the difference."
I also know what your screen name "ghoti" has to do with your avatar. At least I think I do.
Getting off topic here, but it has to do with letters that are not pronounced like they are spelled. It is pronounced "fish": gh as in rough, o as in women, and ti as in action
06 Jul 2012, 11:15 am
Dirtdigger wrote:
This topic is about calling people idiots because they claim vaccines cause Autism which is not true if the article was read. b9 is off topic because we aren't talking about playing cards. And the main issue here are people being called idiots because they have different viewpoints than us.
Calm down, please. b9 was simply making a very brief play on words.
Going by the OP and the first several responses to it, this topic is not about discussing the differences in viewpoints: it's about how to deal with people who hold views on Autism that are so bogus, so old, so debunked and so outrageous that any interaction with them is a source of immediate frustration and annoyance.
It is certainly not attempting to state that people with differing viewpoints are idiots.
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06 Jul 2012, 12:09 pm
ghoti wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
ghoti wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
Never argue with an idiot. Logically it should work but it rarely does.
Or as i have seen: Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
I knew that but I wanted to be original rather than whimsical. There's another version that runs "......people might not see the difference."
I also know what your screen name "ghoti" has to do with your avatar. At least I think I do.
Getting off topic here, but it has to do with letters that are not pronounced like they are spelled. It is pronounced "fish": gh as in rough, o as in women, and ti as in action
Very quickly then, my brother-in-law told it to me as a joke - "how do you spell fish?" etc., back in the 1980s, only in his version it was "ci" as in "electrician." Designed to highlight the craziness of the English language.
06 Jul 2012, 12:24 pm
Quote:
And neither does the article in the link I posted. It was the additive called thimerosal which is a preservative that was put in vaccines and that is why it was removed. Did you read the article? If you did you would have seen the name of the additive. So why do you think removing an additive is a conspiracy?
Thimerosal has been ruled out too. How old are these articles, who wrote them?
Jason.
Verdandi
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06 Jul 2012, 8:10 pm
Dirtdigger wrote:
And neither does the article in the link I posted. It was the additive called thimerosal which is a preservative that was put in vaccines and that is why it was removed. Did you read the article? If you did you would have seen the name of the additive. So why do you think removing an additive is a conspiracy?
Thimerosal doesn't cause autism either, and mercury poisoning does not resemble autism. The whole thimerosal thing was a goalpost-shifting maneuver to push the idea that vaccines do really cause autism.
http://vaccinenewsdaily.com/news/215390 ... concludes/
Quote:
Thimerosal, a mercury-based preservative used in vaccines, does not increase the likelihood that a child will be diagnosed with autism, according to a new study.
For the study, which will appear in the online journal Pediatrics on September 12, researchers reviewed medical records and interviewed 256 autistic children and 752 children without the disorder who received vaccines containing thimerosal in utero or after birth. They also looked at those who received thimerosal laden doses between 1994 and 1999, according to DisabilitiesCoop.com.
On average, those with and without autism received approximately the same dose. The study found that those who developed autism were no likelier to have received thimerosal or to have received it in a larger quantity than those that did not develop autism.
The results confirm the findings of similar studies that have examined the role, if any, of vaccine use in the development of autism, DisabilitiesCoop.com reports. There is widespread consensus in the medical community that there is no connection.
In recent years, many parents of autistic children and autism advocates have come to blame the use of vaccines for causing the condition. The measles, mumps and rubella vaccine, or MMR, and those that include thimerosal have been widely blamed. No widely accepted medical study has confirmed those beliefs.
For the study, which will appear in the online journal Pediatrics on September 12, researchers reviewed medical records and interviewed 256 autistic children and 752 children without the disorder who received vaccines containing thimerosal in utero or after birth. They also looked at those who received thimerosal laden doses between 1994 and 1999, according to DisabilitiesCoop.com.
On average, those with and without autism received approximately the same dose. The study found that those who developed autism were no likelier to have received thimerosal or to have received it in a larger quantity than those that did not develop autism.
The results confirm the findings of similar studies that have examined the role, if any, of vaccine use in the development of autism, DisabilitiesCoop.com reports. There is widespread consensus in the medical community that there is no connection.
In recent years, many parents of autistic children and autism advocates have come to blame the use of vaccines for causing the condition. The measles, mumps and rubella vaccine, or MMR, and those that include thimerosal have been widely blamed. No widely accepted medical study has confirmed those beliefs.
http://www.pediatricsdigest.mobi/content/112/3/604.full
Quote:
Conclusions. The discontinuation of thimerosal-containing vaccines in Denmark in 1992 was followed by an increase in the incidence of autism. Our ecological data do not support a correlation between thimerosal-containing vaccines and the incidence of autism.
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.asp ... eid=197365
Quote:
Results During 2 986 654 person-years, we identified 440 autism cases and 787 cases of other autistic-spectrum disorders. The risk of autism and other autistic-spectrum disorders did not differ significantly between children vaccinated with thimerosal-containing vaccine and children vaccinated with thimerosal-free vaccine (RR, 0.85 [95% confidence interval {CI}, 0.60-1.20] for autism; RR, 1.12 [95% CI, 0.88-1.43] for other autistic-spectrum disorders). Furthermore, we found no evidence of a dose-response association (increase in RR per 25 µg of ethylmercury, 0.98 [95% CI, 0.90-1.06] for autism and 1.03 [95% CI, 0.98-1.09] for other autistic-spectrum disorders).
Conclusion The results do not support a causal relationship between childhood vaccination with thimerosal-containing vaccines and development of autistic-spectrum disorders.
Conclusion The results do not support a causal relationship between childhood vaccination with thimerosal-containing vaccines and development of autistic-spectrum disorders.
http://www.pediatricsdigest.mobi/content/114/3/793.full
Quote:
Results. Twelve publications that met the selection criteria were identified by the literature search: 10 epidemiologic studies and 2 pharmacokinetic studies of ethylmercury. The design and quality of the studies showed significant variation. The preponderance of epidemiologic evidence does not support an association between thimerosal-containing vaccines and ASD. Epidemiologic studies that support an association are of poor quality and cannot be interpreted. Pharmacokinetic studies suggest that the half-life of ethylmercury is significantly shorter when compared with methylmercury.
Conclusions. Studies do not demonstrate a link between thimerosal-containing vaccines and ASD, and the pharmacokinetics of ethylmercury make such an association less likely. Epidemiologic studies that support a link demonstrated significant design flaws that invalidate their conclusions. Evidence does not support a change in the standard of practice with regard to administration of thimerosal-containing vaccines in areas of the world where they are used.
Conclusions. Studies do not demonstrate a link between thimerosal-containing vaccines and ASD, and the pharmacokinetics of ethylmercury make such an association less likely. Epidemiologic studies that support a link demonstrated significant design flaws that invalidate their conclusions. Evidence does not support a change in the standard of practice with regard to administration of thimerosal-containing vaccines in areas of the world where they are used.
Thimerosal doesn't cause autism. Vaccinations never caused autism. People are agitating to cause a real, actual public health crisis by campaigning against vaccinations under the false claim that vaccinations in some way (whether through the vaccine itself or through additives) cause autism.
http://jennymccarthybodycount.com/Jenny ... /Home.html
Verdandi
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06 Jul 2012, 8:12 pm
Dirtdigger wrote:
This topic is about calling people idiots because they claim vaccines cause Autism which is not true if the article was read. b9 is off topic because we aren't talking about playing cards. And the main issue here are people being called idiots because they have different viewpoints than us.
b9's one of the funniest posters here. I certainly hope he doesn't abstain from further humor because it might be off-topic.
Seriously, I wish I could do the wordplay as well as he does.
07 Jul 2012, 8:17 am
i am sorry for having been shallow in this deep discussion.
people who came to my defense realized i was making a simple joke, and i appreciate that, but i also realize that i can not just dump shallow thoughts into a thread that is posted by someone who is seriously wanting answers.
i can not determine boundaries easily.
the worst blunder i ever made while thinking i was being humerous was in a thread about suicide.
someone said they were definitely going to commit suicide, but the topic title was "which is the best way to commit suicide", and my reply was seriously incompassionate and ridiculous, and i was told to remove it promptly.
i said that i can not jump off a cliff because i am afraid of heights, and i can not stab myself because i am afraid of knives, and i can not bludgeon myself to death with a blunt object because i do not have the energy to do so.
then i said that the only idea i had left was to shoot myself in a drive-by shooting.
then i said that i had decided to shoot myself in a drive-by shooting, but the problem was that i was never at home when i drove by my house with the intention of shooting myself through the walls.
i had to delete that post and now i have learned that "reverence" is necessary when considering a topic title.
07 Jul 2012, 8:29 am
I really have to wonder why some people are sooo obsessed with the idea that vaccines cause autism.
Anyway....
I just don't bother engaging with such people. Studies indicate that showing people facts that directly conflict with their viewpoint has no effect on their opinions, so it's pointless.
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