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Does Democracy Really Work Since Only the Rich and Powerful are Satisfied?
Yes 12%  12%  [ 18 ]
Yes 12%  12%  [ 18 ]
No 21%  21%  [ 31 ]
No 21%  21%  [ 31 ]
I Am President Bush and You Have Violated the Patriot Act 17%  17%  [ 25 ]
I Am President Bush and You Have Violated the Patriot Act 17%  17%  [ 25 ]
Total votes : 148

thechadmaster
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05 Mar 2005, 4:06 pm

I know this might offend some people, mainly right-wing facists who live in the white house.
To me Communism seems like the best system of government in existence, in theory that is.
In Communism that is pure we see the following:
-Working People supporting their families
-Those unable to work, cared for
-Peace
-A standard that applies to all, no doulble standards
-No judgement of people based on religion, sex, or color
-Order
-Jusitce
As someone with AS I try to find the perfect solution to everything Pre Communism is it.
If anyone had read the book "The Giver" by Lois Lowry, that is what pure true communism is.


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Feste-Fenris
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05 Mar 2005, 4:12 pm

Ever read Thomas More's Utopia?

That's somewhat similar...

Unfortunately "professional revolutionaries" don't see things the same way you do...



tallgirl
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05 Mar 2005, 4:44 pm

Actually socialism is what you are thinking of. Communism does not care about the individual, only the collective good. Communism is economic, socialism is concerned with individual rights as manifested by a collective consciousness.

For example, in communism, if Aspies were thought to threaten the common good, they would either institutionalize us or kill us. Not Marx's communism, but they way it has been misinterpreted by every country who considers itself communist.

Communism suppresses artistic creativity and self-expression by it's nature. That's why in a capitalist economy (like the US) we have things like Hollywood and our gigantic music/entertainment industry. I am not saying other countries don't (I love me a good Bollywood flick), but it is the reason that fortunately or unfortunately (however one views it), US entertainment invades the world.

Many people confuse communism with socialism.

Tallgirl.



queerpuppy
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05 Mar 2005, 4:59 pm

Quote:
That's why in a capitalist economy (like the US) we have things like Hollywood and our gigantic music/entertainment industry.


Are you saying that like it's a good thing or a bad thing?

As far as I can see, Hollywood + the music mega-corporations suppress the ability of small, independant creative organisations by pricing them out of the market, feeding the masses pap, and riding roughshod over anyone that goes against thh status quo - buying people out, plagiarising, and generally being unpleasant.

Not that I'm saying everything that comes out of Hollywood (for example) is bad, just that small creative groups aften don't get a look in.

Also these huge corps spread certain messages and encourage certain beliefs that are bollocks.

Just look at how many gay, lesbian, and bisexual people there are that are very creative, particularly actors.

Now how many out, LGB leading men or women there are in Hollywood. None.



tallgirl
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05 Mar 2005, 5:06 pm

Oh yeah, I forgot to add that the US is not a democracy, but a republic.

Although there is a growing gap between the haves and have nots, and the deterioration of the middle class, by virtue of Bush's economic policies, in the US, no matter who you are, you are at least guaranteed, via our Constitution, the opportunity to move up. What the US does not guarantee is a handout for one to move up. All our Constitution guarantees is that if you work your a** off and are willing to put in the effort, you will at least get the opportunity to succeed, which is more than most countries will ever offer their citizens.

My Great Grandfather, along with 9 of his 11 children (from Ireland) stole horses (punishable by hanging) from the wealthy British landowners (I shouldn't say owners considering they litteraly kicked my family off of the land they had cared for and cultivated for hundreds of years), so they could eat and also so they could afford passage to this country. Although there was a patronage system, my family made their way from NY to my State. They worked their tails off and eventually started their own house moving business which was successful. They worked 6 days a week, 18 hour days, but b/c of their hardwork, my family is where it is today. Most of their descendants are college educated and/or successful business owners.

You see stories, like the above, in our business section of the paper, at least once a week. However now it is the Russian speaking peoples, former Eastern Bloc peoples, as well as Vietnamese, Laotion, Hmong etc. that are working just as hard and are meeting with success and sometimes failure, but I believe most are grateful just to have the opportunity.

Tallgirl.



merien_took
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05 Mar 2005, 5:31 pm

Shouldn't this go in the political discussion forum?



Bec
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05 Mar 2005, 7:15 pm

thechadmaster wrote:
I know this might offend some people, mainly right-wing facists who live in the white house.
To me Communism seems like the best system of government in existence, in theory that is.


Communism in theory is the most perfect form of government. However, human nature and communism aren't compatible. It's a shame, really. :(

thechadmaster wrote:
As someone with AS I try to find the perfect solution to everything Pre Communism is it.
If anyone had read the book "The Giver" by Lois Lowry, that is what pure true communism is.


I love that book! Isn't it interesting, though, that they had a communist society, and the book seems to look down on it? The people in the book (except for the giver and the boy) are almost robotic. So does the book support communism or not? :?



tallgirl
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05 Mar 2005, 8:26 pm

Queerpuppy:

I wasn't making a judgment either way. I know some people hate the Americanization of the rest of the world and others welcome it. Personally, living in America, I would like to see more influence from other countries on us.

Also, I am a huge indie flick gal. We watch IFC a lot, but unfortunately, in the town we live, they don't show indie films, b/c most everyone here are conservative, bible thumping homophobes.

The free market system affords leisure time, time for yourself instead of working for the collective. What one chooses to do with one's free time is up to them. If one wants to max out one's credit cards making an indie flick, they are free to do that, b/c there is a choice. Instead of communist systems, where one's responsibility is chosen for them and time is dictated.

I think American people would be shocked if they knew just how much we are censored. In fact, the guy who won "Best New Director" or something like that from the Independent Spirit Awards, had his movie confiscated by Homeland Security and it is still being "investigated" by the FBI, b/c he filmed from moving trains.

Independent film is important and should be supported, but obviously, in our capitalist system, not enough people are entertained by it, otherwise those films would be just as popular as "Hitch." If independent style films became more popular, like if people started turning away from the huge studio productions, said studios would start making indie style films. Unfortunately the vast majority of our country like to sit on their fat cans, eat their pork rinds (G-d forbid they might have to think) and be entertained on their level. Remember, our newspapers are written on a 3rd grade reading level. I think that says it all about our country's popular entertainment choices.

Economics is all about how one values one's leisure time. This is at its very core, basic level.

For instance, my husband makes x amount of money per hour (breaking down his salary into hourly). He pays the neighbor boy to mow our lawn, b/c economically, using time value, it costs us more to have my husband do it than the kid that charges $15. Because we understand the economics of that, my husband spends time coaching little children's basketball, b/c he enjoys it. Now if he were an indie film maker, he could spend that time shooting, instead of mowing the lawn.

That is what a free market provides. Unfortunately, I wish there was a way for our country to have a more social consciousness.
Tallgirl.



axelkat
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05 Mar 2005, 8:51 pm

communism does not work because of humanities need to be independent of each other. Communism is right wing, socialism is left wing. The right wing is based on the proauthoritarian rule while left wing represents the masses. Socialism was formed after Trotsky was shot in Mexico by Stalin's men. Trotsky was set to become the next leader in the soviet union. Stalin made Hitler look like an amateur. Perhaps communism would work better in a world where we could be pre programmed. The United States is both a democracy, and a republic. The BofR and the constitution both represent democracy while a republic simply states there is a goverment with some sort of authority there. Anarchy and Communism are complete opposites. Iam proud to live in the United States. I would not not want to spend 5 years in a gulag for simply saying 'f**k Stalin'. If you do, go ahead, I ain't gonna stop ya.
A


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axelkat
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05 Mar 2005, 9:08 pm

1) The patriot act says that the government can take your information without letting you know if you are suspected of terrorism. it is wrong.

2)Communism doesn't judge religion. It seeks to abolish it. Communist Manifesto was dedicated to Darwin and you could be sent to prison for expressing religion in public.

3) The USSR was pure communism. Order was the fear of disappearing into the gulags. The working people found that the tsars were better then their new government.

4)There are no fascists living in the white house, that is just a personal attack. Bush has made many mistakes and may not be the best president but atleast he has cleared up the fact that islam never was the enemy and he got a fascist out of power. Sadam Hussein was not a muslim and islam needs a pro islamic government set up in Iraq for it to become truly part of the nation of islam.
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cornince
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06 Mar 2005, 12:20 am

Are you a member of the nation of Islam?

axelkat wrote:
1) The patriot act says that the government can take your information without letting you know if you are suspected of terrorism. it is wrong.

2)Communism doesn't judge religion. It seeks to abolish it. Communist Manifesto was dedicated to Darwin and you could be sent to prison for expressing religion in public.

3) The USSR was pure communism. Order was the fear of disappearing into the gulags. The working people found that the tsars were better then their new government.

4)There are no fascists living in the white house, that is just a personal attack. Bush has made many mistakes and may not be the best president but atleast he has cleared up the fact that islam never was the enemy and he got a fascist out of power. Sadam Hussein was not a muslim and islam needs a pro islamic government set up in Iraq for it to become truly part of the nation of islam.
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06 Mar 2005, 3:15 am

Even in theory communism sucks because it involves the use of force. Not everyone wants their wealth confiscated and many will resist. That's why it becomes necessary to use force. You also cannot motivate people to work harder without a profit incentive, unless you use the threat of force, and all communist regimes to date have done so.

You cannot have Communism without force, therefore you cannot have a benevolent communism.



Minus
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06 Mar 2005, 5:17 am

tallgirl:

Quote:
What the US does not guarantee is a handout for one to move up. All our Constitution guarantees is that if you work your a** off and are willing to put in the effort, you will at least get the opportunity to succeed, which is more than most countries will ever offer their citizens.


In some ways, you are right. However, I would like to say that the US is less "free" now than it used to be. Chances are that if you are on your way to having successful business some huge company will either try to buy your company, or just shut it down by opening a business close to you. They might have a brand-name which "everybody" knows, and they (or at least their central office) can probably also advertise on TV. They might also control the supply of raw materials, and while it may be illegal for them to not sell to competitors, it is likely that a huge company might get more favourable prices.

My point is that in many areas of business, many things are being owned by large companies that have lots of power. So while one is theoretically free to start a company, the work one puts in might not be worth it, as the company may only be afloat at the mercy of one's competitors. It's quite authoritarian, I think.



Last edited by Minus on 22 Oct 2005, 1:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Minus
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06 Mar 2005, 6:09 am

About the Patriot-act

http://eff.org/Privacy/Surveillance/Terrorism/PATRIOT/

Reminds me of Soviet Russia...



nayashi
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06 Mar 2005, 8:49 am

I am a proud Communist, and that makes me friggin' cool.

And I have read The Giver. I read it in the seventh grade, and I loved it. I wouldn't have wanted to live quite like that, though, but they way people worked was amazing.

I believe that people should what they want for what they want, not because of money. I think money is a horrible and awful concept and should be eliminated. Can you imagine the amount of peace we would have without money?


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axelkat
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06 Mar 2005, 10:40 am

cornince wrote:
Are you a member of the nation of Islam?


No, but I feel that they have been treated poorly. In the United States, some have been attacked and many harassed because of the fact that Bin Laden is also a Muslim. My mom teaches at the college and many Islamic students did not come back to class after the 9/11 attacks. I just think that it is terrible and was happy when Bush refered to Al Quaeda as hijackers of Islam. I do not like him as a president, but was glad that he cleared that up.
A


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