Why I dont feel sorry for the rich having to pay more taxs

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$120,000/year for healthcare and education! The healthcare better include access to the fountain of youth!

Well, bear in mind that taxes pay for more than health and education. Those may be two big ticket items but they are not exclusive. Your economy is very heavily driven by your military expenditure, both on direct transfers (service members' and public servants' salaries) and procurement. This stands to reason, of course, because it's the one area in which a President has more freedom to spend within the appropriations limits set by Congress.

Also, your effective tax rates are nowhere near that level now, and they have been falling consistently since their high point in 1960 (when you were still paying for World War II, you were only recently extricated from Korea, you were wandering into a misadventure in Vietnam and you were having a pissing contest with the Soviets).

Taxes are the price we pay for civilization. Even so, let is keep them as low as possible consistent with having an orderly society.

ruveyn

That statement was made in response to Oodain's claim that not having to directly pay for education or healthcare justified such astronomical tax rates. Context , my friend, context!

Fair enough--but unless Oodain's also claimed that these were the sum total of all benefits received from the existence of government, it is perfectly fair to expand the list.

With extra funding, the government can set up agencies to advertise that smoking, drinking and eating too much are not good ideas, and that exercise, drinking in moderation and eating a balanced diet are much better ideas.

And that is going to deter the gluttons, drunkards and addicts? Dream on.

ruveyn

which i never did,

not that it really changes the argument,

even i think there are such a thing as too high a tax, that however doesnt mean one cant acknowledge the multiple reasons why a high tax might be justified.

As you yourself point out, one of the reasons for Canada's better health indicators is that we have somewhat lower levels of obesity. One of the reasons for that may well be public education. Our drunk driving rates have moved heavily downwards not merely because of criminal sanctions, but also because of sustained public education campaigns.

They will not stop every person from making bad decisions, this is true. But they are not without impact.

Actually, smokers contribute a lot more than you think. Not only do they pay for healthcare, they are also taxed heavily on cigarettes. Combine these things with the fact that most die sooner than the rest of the population, and you will see why they aren't the quite burden on society that everybody thinks they are.

I love how everybody fights over taxes. They are a burden on everybody, and nobody wants to pay, but they still want the services that they provide...FOR FREE. The poor want the rich to pay, and the rich want the poor to pay...heck, somebody's gotta pay.


The other problem with this country is wealth distribution. I think I read somewhere that the top 20% control 85% of the wealth in this country. Instead of trying to go to the actual sources of the problem (selfishness, greed, poor regulation, uneducated citizens, etc.), many people in our government try to control this by taxing the wealthy more heavily. I don't think that is the right way to do it.

I think that's just the nature of capitalism. Wealth flows uphill and collects at the top just like water flows downhill and collects at the bottom. Ever play monopoly? It's extremely simple. People who own more have greater bargaining leverage than people who own less. Extra bargaining leverage allows them to use their existing wealth to gain an even greater share of wealth. It's an exponential process, like a snowball growing and gaining momentum.

That is true. Greed and selfishness also play a big role in wealth accumulation, as well. Instead of giving back some of the excess money that they make to their workers, or the community, etc., they tend to want to hoarde it all for themselves.

The rich should pay more but so should everyone else. We havent paid our bills in the US for 30 years. It cracks me up to see adults suggest that they are too good or too principled to pay their bills. That's quite a principle. Do that in your every day life and you'll be living under a bridge real quick.

Well, taxes can be raised on the wealthy, but that doesn't mean it will result in greater revenue for the government. The wealthy will look to invest into ideas that are tax free most likely.

That is something France is finding out at the moment. Their new leader Hollande campaigned on the theme that he disliked the rich, and taxing them higher would solve France's serious debt woes. The people of France believed him at the time. Now though they are are finding out what he said wasn't true, and as a result his popularity is plummeting.

"Hollande Falters in France, German Left Likes What It Sees"

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/ ... t-it-sees/

I thought economist Thomas Sowell had a nice article about how taxes influence behavior.

"You Can’t Tax the Rich, They’ll flee the country before you can."

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/ ... mas-sowell

I agree, if the debt is such a huge problem everyone should be required to pay at least a little more. What's offensive to liberals/progressives is the idea of cutting taxes on the wealthy while increasing the burden on those barely hanging on which is what Republicans have been wanting to do for the past 30 years. It wouldn't be as much of a problem if their "trickle down" claims actually bore out in reality. The problem is they largely haven't. If you throw the pragmatic side out the window all they're left with is the moral/ideological arguments, the claim that the wealthy are paying more than their fair share and thus should have their taxes cut regardless of whether it will actually help the poor or not. I don't think that argument holds much sway over independents and centrists who are neither randroids nor die hard fiscal conservatives. The wealthy may contribute more in absolute dollar amounts, but not everyone believes monetary units are the true measure of contribution in terms of actual sacrifice. Even the Bible points this out.

Last edited by marshall on 13 Aug 2012, 5:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.