Why I dont feel sorry for the rich having to pay more taxs

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anarkhos
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22 Aug 2012, 5:50 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
anarkhos wrote:
The bread analogy is a good one.
[blah blah blah here].




It is a perfect analogy. Paying Taxes is uncoerced it is a result of a decision, a implicit contract made when a persons decide to make taxable income. Paying taxes is a cost of doing business in a country if the very rich do not want to do business they don't have to no one has a gun to their heads. They can Galt it up and starve in a valley in Colorado if they want to.

It's not like the very rich made a bunch of money and shock 8O horrors they are ambushed and forced to pay tax. If one does business in a country they should be smart enough that they will have to pay taxes in that country.


Deciding to have an income? WTF? That's like saying deciding to eat.

As fo the very rich deciding not to do business in a country that has high taxes, that's a decision more and more are making. The punitive taxes being proposed in France right now will have that exact effect.

The implicit assumption you're making is that when two people decide to voluntarily trade for mutual benefit, you deserve some of that. I don't understand your sense of entitlement, nor your willful economic ignorance.



anarkhos
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22 Aug 2012, 5:54 pm

simon_says wrote:
You could entirely eliminate both programs and not put much of a dent in the 1.2 trillion yearlydeficit. And for comparison, under Bush the Republicans passed the Medicare drug expansion, which today is costing $60 billion a year and was not offset with new taxes. But old people might vote more than poor people so maybe it was bribe money well spent.


That 'bribe' argument would only make sense of Bush actively campaigned on this policy. In fact, this was a backroom deal (the same with Obamacare), crafted by medical industry lobbyists.

Bush won his first term by being Mr. humble foreign policy. Same with Obama. They're both liars and pretty much interchangeable in terms of policy.



simon_says
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22 Aug 2012, 6:09 pm

anarkhos wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
anarkhos wrote:
The bread analogy is a good one.
[blah blah blah here].




It is a perfect analogy. Paying Taxes is uncoerced it is a result of a decision, a implicit contract made when a persons decide to make taxable income. Paying taxes is a cost of doing business in a country if the very rich do not want to do business they don't have to no one has a gun to their heads. They can Galt it up and starve in a valley in Colorado if they want to.

It's not like the very rich made a bunch of money and shock 8O horrors they are ambushed and forced to pay tax. If one does business in a country they should be smart enough that they will have to pay taxes in that country.


Deciding to have an income? WTF? That's like saying deciding to eat.

As fo the very rich deciding not to do business in a country that has high taxes, that's a decision more and more are making. The punitive taxes being proposed in France right now will have that exact effect.

The implicit assumption you're making is that when two people decide to voluntarily trade for mutual benefit, you deserve some of that. I don't understand your sense of entitlement, nor your willful economic ignorance.


He didnt imply they are going to cut him a personal check. He's suggesting that if they want to do business in a nation with a first world infrastructure that they should be prepared to pay taxes. THey can always go start up a business in Somalia if they don't like it but there will always be someone willing to make money in a large economy. They did it when the top rate was 90% and they'd do it at 38%. Buffet invested and profited when capital gains were at 35% same as he does now at 15%.

Ayn Rand was wrong for one simple reason. Business men are adversarial and not a collective hive mind. Some would slip out of John Galt's village to make a buck while the others were sleeping.

Quote:
That 'bribe' argument would only make sense of Bush actively campaigned on this policy. In fact, this was a backroom deal (the same with Obamacare), crafted by medical industry lobbyists.

Bush won his first term by being Mr. humble foreign policy. Same with Obama. They're both liars and pretty much interchangeable in terms of policy.


He passed it in 2003 and touted it as a success for his 2004 re-election campaign.

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives. ... icare.html
http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Daily-R ... 3.aspx?p=1

You think politicians don't want votes?



ruveyn
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22 Aug 2012, 6:22 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:

What about business practices that transfer money from the productive to the Lazy and incompetent?


If it is done voluntarily by all parties involved then I have no objection. Transfers by government action are ultimately enforced by arms or the threat to use arms. Government is force.

I do not let my personal sense of "fair play:" become a criterion for the entire society. My version of "fair play" governs my behavior and only my behavior. I am not God so I will not impose my notions of Right on other folks.

ruveyn



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23 Aug 2012, 7:52 am

anarkhos wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
anarkhos wrote:
The bread analogy is a good one.
[blah blah blah here].




It is a perfect analogy. Paying Taxes is uncoerced it is a result of a decision, a implicit contract made when a persons decide to make taxable income. Paying taxes is a cost of doing business in a country if the very rich do not want to do business they don't have to no one has a gun to their heads. They can Galt it up and starve in a valley in Colorado if they want to.

It's not like the very rich made a bunch of money and shock 8O horrors they are ambushed and forced to pay tax. If one does business in a country they should be smart enough that they will have to pay taxes in that country.


(1)Deciding to have an income? WTF? That's like saying deciding to eat.

As fo the very rich deciding not to do business in a country that has high taxes, that's a decision more and more are making. The punitive taxes being proposed in France right now will have that exact effect.

(2)The implicit assumption you're making is that when two people decide to voluntarily trade for mutual benefit, you deserve some of that. I don't understand your sense of entitlement, nor your willful economic ignorance.


(1) Making it exactly like buying expensive bread thank you for conceding my point.

(2)Why don't you assign beliefs and motives to yourself. When you assign them to me you are in the danger of making straw men. It comes off a bit desperate and stupid.


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visagrunt
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23 Aug 2012, 1:43 pm

anarkhos wrote:
Deciding to have an income? WTF? That's like saying deciding to eat.


Not if you possess private wealth. There is nothing to stop someone from living on capital.

Quote:
As fo the very rich deciding not to do business in a country that has high taxes, that's a decision more and more are making. The punitive taxes being proposed in France right now will have that exact effect.


Nonsense--utter nonsense.

The rich have been trying to evade taxes since taxes began, to be sure. But there are only a limited number of places in the world that you can put your money. Sticking it in a bank account in the Cayman's is all well and good--but it doesn't actually grow unless that money is invested in turn--and there are precious few investment opportunities in tax havens.

US consumers don't exist outside the United States--so if you are going to sell goods and services to US consumers, you have to do business in the United States--either on the ground or through export trade. You can manufacture your applicances in Korea, but unless you can put that fridge on a boat, ship it to the west coast and then put it on a train, you are not going to sell it at the FutureShop in Little Rock.

And while you can choose to absent yourself from your country of nationality (not that that would do you any good as an American citizen), you still have to have somewhere else to go and live, and you have to content yourself with never establishing factual residence in any jurisdiction in which tax liability could accrue.

Quote:
The implicit assumption you're making is that when two people decide to voluntarily trade for mutual benefit, you deserve some of that. I don't understand your sense of entitlement, nor your willful economic ignorance.


Because those two people are trading in a marketplace that they are not responsible for creating. It is a sine qua non of their ability to do business with each other that government exists to well order that marketplace, and to ensure that the rawest of economic material--human labour--is available to create wealth. In an anarchy, commerce is the first thing to die.

If there is wilful ignorance it is among those who refuse to look beyon the instant transaction.


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marshall
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24 Aug 2012, 3:56 pm

anarkhos wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
anarkhos wrote:
The bread analogy is a good one.
[blah blah blah here].




It is a perfect analogy. Paying Taxes is uncoerced it is a result of a decision, a implicit contract made when a persons decide to make taxable income. Paying taxes is a cost of doing business in a country if the very rich do not want to do business they don't have to no one has a gun to their heads. They can Galt it up and starve in a valley in Colorado if they want to.

It's not like the very rich made a bunch of money and shock 8O horrors they are ambushed and forced to pay tax. If one does business in a country they should be smart enough that they will have to pay taxes in that country.


Deciding to have an income? WTF? That's like saying deciding to eat.

As fo the very rich deciding not to do business in a country that has high taxes, that's a decision more and more are making. The punitive taxes being proposed in France right now will have that exact effect.

The implicit assumption you're making is that when two people decide to voluntarily trade for mutual benefit, you deserve some of that. I don't understand your sense of entitlement, nor your willful economic ignorance.


If you don't agree with my silly opinions regarding who deserves what you are ignorant of economics! Pfffftttt... Typical libertarian style of non-argument... So the 95%+ of economists who are not devotees of Ayn Rand or Austrian School ideology are just ignorant? Yup. :roll:



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24 Aug 2012, 4:06 pm

ruveyn wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:

What about business practices that transfer money from the productive to the Lazy and incompetent?


If it is done voluntarily by all parties involved then I have no objection. Transfers by government action are ultimately enforced by arms or the threat to use arms. Government is force.

I do not let my personal sense of "fair play:" become a criterion for the entire society. My version of "fair play" governs my behavior and only my behavior. I am not God so I will not impose my notions of Right on other folks.

ruveyn

Define "voluntary" and prove that such a thing as "free will" actually exists. Also, while you're at it, define "force".