Is race real or is it just a human invention?

Page 14 of 14 [ 204 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 10, 11, 12, 13, 14

LKL
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Age: 43
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,938

19 Aug 2012, 4:50 pm

wogaboo wrote:
Height is only on trait. And there is an enormous amount of height variation outside of Africa too.
:roll:
There are a lot of differences other than height between the dinka and the Mbuti, but weren't you the one who wanted to classify race based on what people look like? You are grasping at straws.



LKL
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Age: 43
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,938

19 Aug 2012, 4:52 pm

Image
They look different, right? But they are basically the same people: same language, same geography, same religion. Before Belgians came along, they intermarried pretty freely.



19 Aug 2012, 10:44 pm

LKL wrote:
wogaboo wrote:
Height is only on trait. And there is an enormous amount of height variation outside of Africa too.
:roll:
There are a lot of differences other than height between the dinka and the Mbuti, but weren't you the one who wanted to classify race based on what people look like? You are grasping at straws.


Like many nilo-saharan peoples, the Dinka have epicanthic folds and speak tonal languages.

What is the basis for claiming that the shape of the skull(and the facial bones) aren't neutral alleles and indicative of ancestry?

For example, there are NO (native)precolumbian peoples in tropical regions of the Americas with negroid features. The climate in equatorial South America is almost identical to that of equatorial Africa. The only people in the new world with negroid features are those whose ancestors came from Africa. Why do you suppose that is? That is my biggest qualm with the "convergent evolution" hypothesis for explaining the look of the Melanesians.



LKL
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Age: 43
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,938

19 Aug 2012, 11:15 pm

Some traits are selected for, some are drift, and some are lost due to founder effect. Degree of skin pigmentation is strongly selected for, and does converge based on irradiance; other traits vary within a population (see above for the congolese groups) and, where they are fixed, tend to be fixed by drift or founder effect.
New World humans show strong founder influences, so comparing New World tribes (some of the least genetically diverse on the planet) with African tribes ( the most genetically diverse) is a little bit like comparing the members of a band field trip to the members of the entire rest of the school district.



JakobVirgil
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,744
Location: yes

20 Aug 2012, 6:52 am

AspieRogue wrote:
[That is my biggest qualm with the "convergent evolution" hypothesis for explaining the look of the Melanesians.


or the rest of the Australoids.


_________________
?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/


wogaboo
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 29 Aug 2010
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 151

20 Aug 2012, 12:01 pm

LKL wrote:
wogaboo wrote:
Height is only on trait. And there is an enormous amount of height variation outside of Africa too.
:roll:
There are a lot of differences other than height between the dinka and the Mbuti, but weren't you the one who wanted to classify race based on what people look like? You are grasping at straws.


The Dinka and mbuti DO look alike. And I don't want to classify race based on what people look like per se, but if people are similar in ways we can see, it's only logical to think they are alike in ways we can't see too.



JakobVirgil
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,744
Location: yes

20 Aug 2012, 12:14 pm

wogaboo wrote:
LKL wrote:
wogaboo wrote:
Height is only on trait. And there is an enormous amount of height variation outside of Africa too.
:roll:
There are a lot of differences other than height between the dinka and the Mbuti, but weren't you the one who wanted to classify race based on what people look like? You are grasping at straws.


The Dinka and mbuti DO look alike. And I don't want to classify race based on what people look like per se, but if people are similar in ways we can see, it's only logical to think they are alike in ways we can't see too.


They do not look the same to me. This is the issue I think. What people look like is subjective.


_________________
?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/


Oodain
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,

20 Aug 2012, 12:38 pm

wogaboo wrote:
LKL wrote:
wogaboo wrote:
Height is only on trait. And there is an enormous amount of height variation outside of Africa too.
:roll:
There are a lot of differences other than height between the dinka and the Mbuti, but weren't you the one who wanted to classify race based on what people look like? You are grasping at straws.


The Dinka and mbuti DO look alike. And I don't want to classify race based on what people look like per se, but if people are similar in ways we can see, it's only logical to think they are alike in ways we can't see too.

pure bull,

nothing, in the entire universe, is what you see, what you "see" is a model your brain constructs to make sense of what its senses tell it, it is often severely skewed under even mundane circumstances.


_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//

the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.


LKL
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Age: 43
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,938

21 Aug 2012, 5:12 pm

wogaboo wrote:
LKL wrote:
wogaboo wrote:
Height is only on trait. And there is an enormous amount of height variation outside of Africa too.
:roll:
There are a lot of differences other than height between the dinka and the Mbuti, but weren't you the one who wanted to classify race based on what people look like? You are grasping at straws.


The Dinka and mbuti DO look alike. And I don't want to classify race based on what people look like per se, but if people are similar in ways we can see, it's only logical to think they are alike in ways we can't see too.

'You people all look the same to me.'