Page 2 of 4 [ 48 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

DialAForAwesome
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Oct 2011
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,189
Location: That place with the thing

10 Aug 2012, 8:39 am

How strange that autotelica had the exact same thoughts and experiences I did. I was "afraid of the belt" too so as a result I never did anything bad. I still got the belt sometimes for things I didn't do, though. But blame my parents being obsessive drunks for that. I eventually got to the point where I could get along with my dad. 24 years later and I still don't get along with my mom. She blames everything on me all the time.


_________________
I don't trust anyone because I'm cynical.
I'm cynical because I don't trust anyone.


aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,487

10 Aug 2012, 3:18 pm

Ganondox wrote:
I lived in a predominately black community. The white people with ASDs were higher functioning and the black people were lower functioning.


How did you determine that the white people with ASD's were higher functioning than the black people.? Is this something you observed and came to a judgement on your own, or are there actual clinical statistics for the community you lived in? As it is possible that you did not see the majority of individuals that had severe impairments, walking the streets, unless you were enrolled in a classroom with them.

The 1 in 88 statistic derived in the US is sampled from the school system, exclusive to 8 year olds in classes for the developmentally disabled receiving support services for education.



TheSunAlsoRises
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Dec 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,039

10 Aug 2012, 3:27 pm

Kurgan wrote:
More white people than black people can afford to get a psychiatric evaluation as well as a screening for ASDs. This is why black people in Great Britain (where everyone is entitled to free healthcare, the way it should be) are more likely to have Asperger's syndrome than black Americans.


Does Great Britain have a relatively high mixed race population ?
If so, is there any literature on demographic identification?
TheSunAlsoRises



deltafunction
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jun 2012
Age: 28
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,094
Location: Lost

10 Aug 2012, 4:56 pm

Kurgan wrote:
More white people than black people can afford to get a psychiatric evaluation as well as a screening for ASDs. This is why black people in Great Britain (where everyone is entitled to free healthcare, the way it should be) are more likely to have Asperger's syndrome than black Americans.


I live in Canada, with free health care, and in a very multicultural area, and still, the visible minorities I see who are diagnosed with ASD are mostly low-functioning. They were probably diagnosed because it was obvious that they needed extra help.



TheSunAlsoRises
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Dec 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,039

10 Aug 2012, 6:55 pm

autotelica wrote:
I am a black person who has been diagnosed (though not fully accepting).

I'm guessing culture may affect both how it is expressed and how it is perceived. Based on my experiences growing up, we kids were not expected to talk much to our parents. We were spoken to, but there was no expectation of reciprocation. There was plenty of yelling and hollering and whuppings if we fell out of step.

I was not disciplined very much as a kid, but that's because I was always afraid of getting in trouble. I was on high alert to make sure I was "good". If I had exhibited any of the tendencies I do now as a kid, I wouldn't have been taken to the doctor. I would have gotten a whuppin'. (I think if that I had been really disruptive, my parents would have eventually taken me to a professional. But I was too scared of the belt to let myself get to that point!)

I don't like big generalizations, but I do think black parents tend to be more strict and less tolerant of "Aspieness" than whites. They also tends towards spirituality and don't put a lot of stock in the medical establishment. My mother was repeatedly informed by my teachers that my lack of facial expression and motor delays were concerning. But my mother, who has always distrusted the opinion's of "authority", thought those were things that I could work out on my own. She was largely right, so she wins on that point. My issues are still with me, but they haven't held me back in life.

I think when you are confronting something huge (like racism), other stuff looks trivial. I think my parents knew they had a goofy kid on their hands, but that fact took backseat to challenge of raising a strong black female. To be nice, to be a good Christian, and to be self-reliant were the things my parents put a high premium on. Happiness? I hate to say it, but I think my parents viewed this as a triviality. I wasn't totally unhappy growing up, but I think instilling happiness in your kids requires actually getting to know them. This is where my parents failed.

I told my therapist that one reason I have problems with my diagnosis is that I was raised to identify as a "strong black woman". You know the stereotype. Someone who doesn't let anything get in her way, who is nonsense and tough, and full of common sense. The complete opposite of the Aspie caricature. I have never thought of myself as a "strong black woman", but it was still an appealing image to hold onto as a possibility, at least. If I accept the Aspie description for myself, I don't know what type of black person I am. I am not a Steve Urkel. So there is no one else. Except for maybe Harriet Tubman. She was neurologically atypical because of a head injury and suffered from narcolepsy. But she was badass and very much strong.


Some comments and questions.

You were raised to indentify with a particular type of 'strong black woman,' one which is stereotypical, yet there is a diverse population of 'strong black woman' as rich and as broad as God's green earth.

Would you consider your strong adherence to the indentification of one stereotypical image of a Black woman a function of cultural upbringing or Black/White thinking ?

In other words: IF I gave you a definition of 'a strong black woman' and asked you to name the ones that came to your mind; would *your* definition over-ride the one i gave you ?

Would you consider yourself more like the daughters on the Fresh Prince of Belair and/or Cosby Show ? or neither ? *playing a hunch*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think this is your dilemma:

There are no 'strong Black Aspergian women' to indentify with, so IF they do NOT exist, how could I ?

Answer: They exist ....diagnosed and undiagnosed but not necessarily media stars. Strength exists across ALL races of women. Ultimately, you are going to become a 'strong black woman' based on your life experiences and how it shapes your character. There is nothing stopping you from being a 'strong black woman' with a Aspergers diagnosis because great diversity exists in the Autism community, too.


TheSunAlsoRises



Last edited by TheSunAlsoRises on 10 Aug 2012, 7:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

autotelica
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 48

10 Aug 2012, 7:16 pm

TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
autotelica wrote:
I am a black person who has been diagnosed (though not fully accepting).

I'm guessing culture may affect both how it is expressed and how it is perceived. Based on my experiences growing up, we kids were not expected to talk much to our parents. We were spoken to, but there was no expectation of reciprocation. There was plenty of yelling and hollering and whuppings if we fell out of step.

I was not disciplined very much as a kid, but that's because I was always afraid of getting in trouble. I was on high alert to make sure I was "good". If I had exhibited any of the tendencies I do now as a kid, I wouldn't have been taken to the doctor. I would have gotten a whuppin'. (I think if that I had been really disruptive, my parents would have eventually taken me to a professional. But I was too scared of the belt to let myself get to that point!)

I don't like big generalizations, but I do think black parents tend to be more strict and less tolerant of "Aspieness" than whites. They also tends towards spirituality and don't put a lot of stock in the medical establishment. My mother was repeatedly informed by my teachers that my lack of facial expression and motor delays were concerning. But my mother, who has always distrusted the opinion's of "authority", thought those were things that I could work out on my own. She was largely right, so she wins on that point. My issues are still with me, but they haven't held me back in life.

I think when you are confronting something huge (like racism), other stuff looks trivial. I think my parents knew they had a goofy kid on their hands, but that fact took backseat to challenge of raising a strong black female. To be nice, to be a good Christian, and to be self-reliant were the things my parents put a high premium on. Happiness? I hate to say it, but I think my parents viewed this as a triviality. I wasn't totally unhappy growing up, but I think instilling happiness in your kids requires actually getting to know them. This is where my parents failed.

I told my therapist that one reason I have problems with my diagnosis is that I was raised to identify as a "strong black woman". You know the stereotype. Someone who doesn't let anything get in her way, who is nonsense and tough, and full of common sense. The complete opposite of the Aspie caricature. I have never thought of myself as a "strong black woman", but it was still an appealing image to hold onto as a possibility, at least. If I accept the Aspie description for myself, I don't know what type of black person I am. I am not a Steve Urkel. So there is no one else. Except for maybe Harriet Tubman. She was neurologically atypical because of a head injury and suffered from narcolepsy. But she was badass and very much strong.


Some comments and questions.

You were raised to indentify with a particular type of 'strong black woman,' one which is stereotypical, yet there is a diverse population of 'strong black woman' as rich and as broad as God's green earth.

Would you consider your strong adherence to the indentification of one stereotypical image of a Black woman a function of cultural upbringing or Black/White thinking ?

In other words: IF I gave you a definition of 'a strong black woman' and asked you to name the ones that came to your mind; would *your* definition over-ride the one i gave you ?

Would you consider yourself more like the daughters on the Fresh Prince of Belair and/or Cosby Show ? or neither ? *playing a hunch*

TheSunAlsoRises


I don't cling to the image too hard. But it's always lurking in the back of my head. I think it stems from how I was raised.

I have no idea what your idea of a strong black woman is. I just know that there is a stereotype that everyone (most people) rely on when they view black women. The loud, quick-tempered, head-rolling, finger-waving, snappy-comeback-having person. The image is out there everywhere you turn. No black person is like this 100%, just like no stereotype is 100% true. But it's ever-present. People come to me and ask if I can do the "cobra" thing that apparently all black women can do with their necks when they get angry. As much as I'd like to be able to do it, I can't. I can't get angry and I can't operate my new muscles like that.

Your last question is kind of funny to me. I don't know how I would even answer it. I will say this: look at Claire Huxtable. When I picture an "ideal", she's it. She exemplifies the stereotype I'm talking about to a T, except in a more sophisticated form.



aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,487

10 Aug 2012, 7:40 pm

deltafunction wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
More white people than black people can afford to get a psychiatric evaluation as well as a screening for ASDs. This is why black people in Great Britain (where everyone is entitled to free healthcare, the way it should be) are more likely to have Asperger's syndrome than black Americans.


I live in Canada, with free health care, and in a very multicultural area, and still, the visible minorities I see who are diagnosed with ASD are mostly low-functioning. They were probably diagnosed because it was obvious that they needed extra help.


The only place I am aware of in the real world, where diagnoses are made public are support groups and in classes and schools specifically oriented toward Autism. Other than this how do you determine if someone is diagnosed when you see them in the general public? It would be possible to guess if someone was professionally diagnosed with an ASD, but close to impossible to determine it for sure just by observing them in a brief encounter, without a disclosure of diagnosis.

Currently per Wiki, with the limited statistics that are available approximately 10% of all cases of ASD's are identified as HFA/Aspergers. The actual percentage is likely higher, but these are the statistics that exist. Statistically the number of race/ethnicity minorities one comes across in the general public, if they indeed are the minority in that area are going to fewer, and the minority of individuals identified to date, with high functioning autism or Aspergers is going to be much lower because they are already part of a minority population.

Currently it is estimated that about 3 to 5 individuals out of 10,000 are diagnosed with Aspergers. If one lives in a city that is comprised of 90,000 individuals that are part of a race/ethnicity minority and 10,000 individuals that are a part of a race/ethnicity minority, one could expect, based on those Wiki statistics, to come across 3 to 5 minority individuals with an Aspergers diagnosis, if the proportionate number of diagnoses were equivalent across demographics.

There are indeed many factors that influence diagnosis, but even if those factors were equal, per the example above, it's highly unlikely that one is going to actually meet any random 3 to 5 individuals out of a population of 100,000 people. And the odds of them informally disclosing a diagnosis comes close to the world of lottery statistics.

It is part of why to this point so little is known about the condition of Aspergers, among people in the real world, and why so few people have ever encountered anyone of any ethnic background, outside of the school and support group environment, IRL, that actually discloses a professional diagnosis of Aspergers.

The Broader Autism Phenotype moves much further into the population at estimated statistics of 10 to 20%, as well as up to 30% of individuals potentially having at least one characteristic associated with an autism spectrum diagnosis, through research done to this point. Many people in this broader autism phenotype, question whether or not they meet the criteria for an actual professional diagnosis of an ASD. Per these statistics it is common to come across these individuals on the "broader autism phenotype" in day to day life.



TheSunAlsoRises
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Dec 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,039

10 Aug 2012, 7:41 pm

autotelica wrote:
TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
autotelica wrote:
I am a black person who has been diagnosed (though not fully accepting).

I'm guessing culture may affect both how it is expressed and how it is perceived. Based on my experiences growing up, we kids were not expected to talk much to our parents. We were spoken to, but there was no expectation of reciprocation. There was plenty of yelling and hollering and whuppings if we fell out of step.

I was not disciplined very much as a kid, but that's because I was always afraid of getting in trouble. I was on high alert to make sure I was "good". If I had exhibited any of the tendencies I do now as a kid, I wouldn't have been taken to the doctor. I would have gotten a whuppin'. (I think if that I had been really disruptive, my parents would have eventually taken me to a professional. But I was too scared of the belt to let myself get to that point!)

I don't like big generalizations, but I do think black parents tend to be more strict and less tolerant of "Aspieness" than whites. They also tends towards spirituality and don't put a lot of stock in the medical establishment. My mother was repeatedly informed by my teachers that my lack of facial expression and motor delays were concerning. But my mother, who has always distrusted the opinion's of "authority", thought those were things that I could work out on my own. She was largely right, so she wins on that point. My issues are still with me, but they haven't held me back in life.

I think when you are confronting something huge (like racism), other stuff looks trivial. I think my parents knew they had a goofy kid on their hands, but that fact took backseat to challenge of raising a strong black female. To be nice, to be a good Christian, and to be self-reliant were the things my parents put a high premium on. Happiness? I hate to say it, but I think my parents viewed this as a triviality. I wasn't totally unhappy growing up, but I think instilling happiness in your kids requires actually getting to know them. This is where my parents failed.

I told my therapist that one reason I have problems with my diagnosis is that I was raised to identify as a "strong black woman". You know the stereotype. Someone who doesn't let anything get in her way, who is nonsense and tough, and full of common sense. The complete opposite of the Aspie caricature. I have never thought of myself as a "strong black woman", but it was still an appealing image to hold onto as a possibility, at least. If I accept the Aspie description for myself, I don't know what type of black person I am. I am not a Steve Urkel. So there is no one else. Except for maybe Harriet Tubman. She was neurologically atypical because of a head injury and suffered from narcolepsy. But she was badass and very much strong.


Some comments and questions.

You were raised to indentify with a particular type of 'strong black woman,' one which is stereotypical, yet there is a diverse population of 'strong black woman' as rich and as broad as God's green earth.

Would you consider your strong adherence to the indentification of one stereotypical image of a Black woman a function of cultural upbringing or Black/White thinking ?

In other words: IF I gave you a definition of 'a strong black woman' and asked you to name the ones that came to your mind; would *your* definition over-ride the one i gave you ?

Would you consider yourself more like the daughters on the Fresh Prince of Belair and/or Cosby Show ? or neither ? *playing a hunch*

TheSunAlsoRises


I don't cling to the image too hard. But it's always lurking in the back of my head. I think it stems from how I was raised.

I have no idea what your idea of a strong black woman is. I just know that there is a stereotype that everyone (most people) rely on when they view black women. The loud, quick-tempered, head-rolling, finger-waving, snappy-comeback-having person. The image is out there everywhere you turn. No black person is like this 100%, just like no stereotype is 100% true. But it's ever-present. People come to me and ask if I can do the "cobra" thing that apparently all black women can do with their necks when they get angry. As much as I'd like to be able to do it, I can't. I can't get angry and I can't operate my new muscles like that.Your last question is kind of funny to me. I don't know how I would even answer it. I will say this: look at Claire Huxtable. When I picture an "ideal", she's it. She exemplifies the stereotype I'm talking about to a T, except in a more sophisticated form.


* I added a few things in my original post.

You answered my questions. You can strive to be a more subtle Claire Huxtable, carrying the internal strength without exhibiting outward behaviors. This is where true strength lies.

It might be a blessing THAT you don't exhibit these stereotypical behaviors along with Aspergers. LoL.

TheSunAlsoRises



deltafunction
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jun 2012
Age: 28
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,094
Location: Lost

10 Aug 2012, 7:50 pm

aghogday wrote:
deltafunction wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
More white people than black people can afford to get a psychiatric evaluation as well as a screening for ASDs. This is why black people in Great Britain (where everyone is entitled to free healthcare, the way it should be) are more likely to have Asperger's syndrome than black Americans.


I live in Canada, with free health care, and in a very multicultural area, and still, the visible minorities I see who are diagnosed with ASD are mostly low-functioning. They were probably diagnosed because it was obvious that they needed extra help.


The only place I am aware of in the real world, where diagnoses are made public are support groups and in classes and schools specifically oriented toward Autism. Other than this how do you determine if someone is diagnosed when you see them in the general public? It would be possible to guess if someone was professionally diagnosed with an ASD, but close to impossible to determine it for sure just by observing them in a brief encounter, without a disclosure of diagnosis.


I work with a charity, so I work with a lot of kids who are visible minorities, have disabilities, or are from poor families. We are told when someone has a known disability, and sometimes they tell us that it's ASD, though usually it's easy to tell anyways. Then it's also easy to differentiate high versus low functioning, and since I'm on the spectrum, it's possible to guess what they have.

Also, considering I work in a setting where kids who are visible minorities are actually the majority of the population, I find it surprising that the kids I've encountered with ASD are as follows: around five who have HFA or have a known disability that seems similar to HFA, one of whom is a visible minority, and around five who have LFA, all of whom are visible minorities.



TheSunAlsoRises
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Dec 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,039

10 Aug 2012, 8:59 pm

DialAForAwesome wrote:
How strange that autotelica had the exact same thoughts and experiences I did. I was "afraid of the belt" too so as a result I never did anything bad. I still got the belt sometimes for things I didn't do, though. But blame my parents being obsessive drunks for that. I eventually got to the point where I could get along with my dad. 24 years later and I still don't get along with my mom. She blames everything on me all the time.


I remember the 'belt' very well. Yes. Indeed. The thing was, i did not fear the 'belt'...atleast not enough to stop doing what i wanted to. LoL.

My older sister=Forest Gump's girlfriend and the belt=rocks BUT without as much intensity and hits.

I became a damn good runner...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlT6owR5Ytg&feature=related[/youtube]

TheSunAlsoRises



Ilka
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 May 2011
Age: 47
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,365
Location: Panama City, Republic of Panama

10 Aug 2012, 9:24 pm

I live in Central America. I am Latinamerican. My husband and child are also Latinamerican. Actually my husband's grandparent was Chinese. He has Aspergers, and so does my daughter.



aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,487

10 Aug 2012, 11:26 pm

deltafunction wrote:
aghogday wrote:
deltafunction wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
More white people than black people can afford to get a psychiatric evaluation as well as a screening for ASDs. This is why black people in Great Britain (where everyone is entitled to free healthcare, the way it should be) are more likely to have Asperger's syndrome than black Americans.


I live in Canada, with free health care, and in a very multicultural area, and still, the visible minorities I see who are diagnosed with ASD are mostly low-functioning. They were probably diagnosed because it was obvious that they needed extra help.


The only place I am aware of in the real world, where diagnoses are made public are support groups and in classes and schools specifically oriented toward Autism. Other than this how do you determine if someone is diagnosed when you see them in the general public? It would be possible to guess if someone was professionally diagnosed with an ASD, but close to impossible to determine it for sure just by observing them in a brief encounter, without a disclosure of diagnosis.




I work with a charity, so I work with a lot of kids who are visible minorities, have disabilities, or are from poor families. We are told when someone has a known disability, and sometimes they tell us that it's ASD, though usually it's easy to tell anyways. Then it's also easy to differentiate high versus low functioning, and since I'm on the spectrum, it's possible to guess what they have.

Also, considering I work in a setting where kids who are visible minorities are actually the majority of the population, I find it surprising that the kids I've encountered with ASD are as follows: around five who have HFA or have a known disability that seems similar to HFA, one of whom is a visible minority, and around five who have LFA, all of whom are visible minorities.


Thanks for the information; I can understand that you would have more insight working with the children. I don't know what the factors associated with some ethnic groups are in Canada, but according to the NAMI organization in the US, mental health issues and anything associated with seeing a psychiatrist, is still unfortunately a stronger measured stigma in some ethnic communities, that would likely deter some from being diagnosed with symptoms that are not as severe, regardless of health care coverage, which may be the case in Canada as well.

Prevalence research from Canada for ASD's is limited, but from reports of the data that has been collected so far, the overall statistics of ASD are comparable to the US, per link below.

Wiki provides information that the demographic of South Asians/Chinese in Canada is close to 8 percent and the demographic of Black Canadians is close to 2.5 percent as the two most visible minorities in the country.

http://authoring.wp.queensu.ca/lenya/nedwww/live/Publications/FamilyUpdates/NEDSAC_Report_March2012.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada



Ganondox
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Oct 2011
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,807
Location: USA

11 Aug 2012, 12:11 am

aghogday wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
I lived in a predominately black community. The white people with ASDs were higher functioning and the black people were lower functioning.


How did you determine that the white people with ASD's were higher functioning than the black people.? Is this something you observed and came to a judgement on your own, or are there actual clinical statistics for the community you lived in? As it is possible that you did not see the majority of individuals that had severe impairments, walking the streets, unless you were enrolled in a classroom with them.

The 1 in 88 statistic derived in the US is sampled from the school system, exclusive to 8 year olds in classes for the developmentally disabled receiving support services for education.


Its an observation. Lets phrase it like this. First, by higher and lower functioning I meant relatively, not the more absolute terms. In Middle school I was in a program for autistic children, but it was not the special education program. There were two other boys in it, one white and the other either black or mulatto. The white boy was obviously higher functioning. There was also a black girl who may have been in the class, but I'm not quite sure if she was. I think she might have had ADHD, anyway she was quite different from those two other boys and the way she wad involved in the program was different. There was also a boy with AS a grade or two ahead of me who was higher functioning than those two boys. He was white. There was also the special Ed for those with severe cognitive defects. Almost everyone in it was black. In retrospect I realize that some of them had severe autism, and all those ones I remember were black. Finally, all of the other people who I knew in the area who may of had some form of HFA in the area were white.

I think observations are just as important as actual statistics, they are something that can be related to easier and better show how stereotypes arise. Statistics are just cold numbers that people do not see in life.

I think one last thing is important to mention: According to studies a stronger genetic connection was found in HFA and AS than LFA. As of such, chances are race may play a larger role in HFA than LFA. It's well known that some conditions are more common in certain races for one reason or another, so why should this be any different? Most people on this forum are higher functioning/AS, so when they think of autism they probably think of AS. No, race is not the best indicator of genetics, but it still shows something. Even if HFA is equally prevalent among all races it still may be diagnosed in some more than others just as AS is diagnosed a lot more often in bots and girls with AS are less likely to get diagnosed with it. I don't think we should dismiss this quite yet.


_________________
Cinnamon and sugary
Softly Spoken lies
You never know just how you look
Through other people's eyes

Autism FAQs http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt186115.html


Verdandi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Age: 50
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,587
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)

11 Aug 2012, 12:15 am

Observations are important, although they do not reflect statistics and are not necessarily as important as statistics. Sometimes they may be more important because statistics do not reflect individual realities. Sometimes they are less important because one is generalizing an observation to an entire population.



Chapelo
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 7 May 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 35
Location: San Diego, CA

11 Aug 2012, 12:21 am

I'm half-Filipino, half white (Irish/German), and have AS. My mother is Filipina, born and raised in the Philippines, and she also has AS.