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summer
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30 Nov 2006, 4:42 pm

I was hoping that I could find a wise NT or a wise aspie parent who would be able to make some sense of the following:

BTW, I have AS.

Being straight with people: Telling them they what they did hurt my feelings. (I learned to do this in CBT (cognitive behavioral training).

When someone snaps at me, calls me names, makes double standards that favor their own interests……I try to tell them how this hurts me. And I think I do a good job explaining it. 99.9% of the time, people will get more angry and frustrated with me and sometimes call me more names and scream at the top of their lungs.

What I don’t understand is why it’s so hard for people to hear what they did to hurt me. All I want them to do is acknowledge it, apologize, and stop hurting me like that. But instead most people get enraged and deny any wrongdoing on their part. To me it seems so easy to say, “I was wrong and I don’t want to hurt your feelings. No, it wouldn’t feel good if someone did that to me. I will not hurt you again like that.” The end. I do this. And then I get more name calling like, “Ha, you think you’re a saint. Joan of Arc.” Which I can profess I am not by far any of these extremely great characters. It’s almost like NT’s can have quite a bit of black and white behavior when they get dramatic.

I did an internet search to understand (get theory of mind) why people behave this way but I didn’t find much. I did find one article why NT’s lie which I can post if you want. I need some good feedback and maybe some good articles to understand lying, double standards, and favoritism better. Can anyone help me out? Thanks.

Sometimes I feel like I should just shut my mouth and not say anything when people hurt me because it saves the other person from getting even more mad at me. But then I feel awful about myself and I feel like everyone's emotional puching bag.



KimJ
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30 Nov 2006, 4:57 pm

When you find out, let us know. Really. This is one of the great mysteries.
Person says A then you say, "I didn't like how you said A"
Person: "I didn't say A"
You: "Yes, you said A and it hurt my feelings"
Person: "Why are still going on about this?! I already said that I didn't say A! Are you A? Maybe you have a problem but I didn't cause it"
You: "All I said was that you said A and it hurt my feelings"
Person: "So, you drag me through the mud and I don't deserve that. So what if I said A? It's my opinion and I have a right to feel it!"
You: "That's what I said, you said A and it hurt my feelings, that's all"


:lol I think many NTs try to justify their emotional reactions. Consensus is also a measuring gauge they use to see if they are "right". Autistic use of logic or analysis is foreign and seen as amoral or cold. Just because you may be logically right, if no one agrees or sympathizes with you, then you're wrong. Trying to explain anything-as my husband says-is like teaching dogs algebra. :twisted:



summer
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30 Nov 2006, 5:54 pm

There's a whole thread starting about this in the member section.



summer
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30 Nov 2006, 5:55 pm

Here's the link:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/modules.php? ... ic&t=20634

I'm trying to get help with this confusing thing.

I was really looking for some advice from parents (NT or Aspie). This question may come up as your kids grow older too.



summer
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30 Nov 2006, 6:39 pm

Story 1

E = me
K = my second sister
C = my third sister
S = K’s husband

C was hanging out with K and S when they were first dating. On January, 2001, C came home crying to me about how S punched her in the leg. She showed me all of the bruises on her thigh. They were huge! She was crying for a long time about this. We grew up with an abusive father and I’m the oldest and it was always my job to protect my little sisters. I made it known that S cannot come into our house because of what he did. I owned the house and shared it with my little sisters. They were not minors.

C kept on going out with K and S and I thought that maybe I should loosen the restrictions on S so I tried to mend things up by joining them all on a night out. I missed all the signals that he felt hostile towards me right from the beginning of the night.

At the end of the night, he pushed me and got nose to nose with me (threat) and told me that I am a worthless loser and nobody likes me. I ran off with my boyfriend as he was laughing.

I’ve tried to talk about it with K. She told me that it never happened and S would never do something like that. And that’s how it still is. I don’t know what set it off from S. If it was because I didn’t want him to come into my house after punching my little sister, maybe he shouldn’t have put his hands on me. I think his reaction was extreme. I think he could’ve rather asked me. And I would not have attacked him. I would have plainly told him the reasons and said that C doesn’t feel in danger of you anymore and I was sorry. But it didn’t go that way. He shoved me.

I’ve been accused of perseveration on this issue. But I feel like I cannot predict his behavior. I am worried that if I even look at him the wrong way that he will physically hurt me. I am afraid of him. If we don’t talk it out, I’m sure I will still be afraid of the man. He’s now married to K since October 2006. It is so uncomfortable for me. And everyone in my family is through hearing about it. I can’t be around him because I don’t know what he’ll do to me. And that’s one story.



summer
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30 Nov 2006, 6:40 pm

Summer

My sister K even said that S did not punch my other sister C. C never said anything to anyone but me. I should've taken photos.

It makes me feel like I imagined the whole thing. Had my boyfriend not been there for all these things, I may have believed I made the whole thing up.



summer
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30 Nov 2006, 6:41 pm

Summer:

Scott does this to women...not to men.

Therapists have told me to stay away from him, but K is my sister and I love her very much. I want to get along with him. So I want to understand the lies that K and Scott are making about those events so I'm not so afraid of him and I can anticipate his behavior better.



summer
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30 Nov 2006, 6:42 pm

Summer:

I really want to work this out somehow. My sister K won't do anything with me without Scott.

I don't want to lose my sister over this. Even worse, Scott may hit her and I won't be there for here. God forbid I get myself involved in another stupid thing like this again.

I want to talk with her and him. I just can't. Because they both get mad at me. And I can't be around him without fear that he may let his rage out on me again. Forget my other sister, C. She can't stand up for herself at all. I'm at a loss to understanding why me, K, and Scott can't just talk about it so everyone feels better.



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30 Nov 2006, 8:07 pm

I have an older biological sister who I didnt grow up with but met in the past 7 years.She was abused in foster-care and later returned to nonsupportive(alchoholic)bio parents.Every relationship except one(a guy she eventually divorced because she wasnt attracted to him)physically and emotionally abused her.For many psychological reasons(low self-esteem,etc)she needs to be with these abusive people.She says she loves them,yet the non-abusive person,she doesnt.There is no logical thing I could say or do to change her psychology....because there is no logic behind her choices.I cant live her life for her or protect her from her own self destructive choices...only she can,when she is ready.I can be there for her when she decides she wants to make the changes,thats all I can do.

People who grow up in hostile environments chose their own method of coping.Some deal with it by becoming abusive themselves.Some become perpetual victims or hope that they can reenact the behavior but change the outcome...make the abuser become an nonabuser(doesnt work,obviously).
Some become paranoid and shut themselves away from all people and some learn how to say...NO!

Your sister sounds like she is in denial about why she chooses to be with this person.The more you are "against" him the closer it will bring her to him.She is trying to rewrite reality and change the end of the story.Your interference is experienced as a threat to this thin "reality",so I am not surprised at her defensiveness....she is defending herself and a fragile psychy against the assault of "logic".

I would tell her that you are afraid for her and afraid she maybe abused.Let her know if she needs you at some point ,you love her,and will be there for her without any "I told you so"s.Make your own boundaries clear to her.You have a right not to be around such a hostile environment.If she wants to spend time with you,she will find away.I think her husband is doing what many abusers do,trying to separate his "victim" from any possible support systems.It is the usual pattern of abusers.It would be most helpful for your sister to know that there is an "escape hatch" for her is she/when she , needs to get away.As a person who has been around abuse...and being the "saver" yourself...you are acting out your childhood roles.Take care of yourself ,so you can be there for her when she is ready.


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30 Nov 2006, 9:56 pm

krex wrote:
People who grow up in hostile environments chose their own method of coping.Some deal with it by becoming abusive themselves.Some become perpetual victims or hope that they can reenact the behavior but change the outcome...make the abuser become an nonabuser(doesnt work,obviously). Some become paranoid and shut themselves away from all people and some learn how to say...NO!


I vacillate between all of these outcomes. Summer, as for your introductory post in this thread, I pretty much reenacted a conversation like that last night with my mom. Not fun. I feel for you and hope we can all find a resolution to our communication issues some day.


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ster
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03 Dec 2006, 11:12 am

many people are not ready to accept *their* responsibility in creating drama and problems~ my brother constantly tells me that everything that's gone wrong in his life is someone else's fault..



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03 Dec 2006, 11:18 am

I constantly get told to "be assertive". When I do, I only cop more abuse.
When I try to explain this to the people who gave me the advice they say "be more assertive".

I agree that other people who act rudely and abusively often will not take responsibility for their actions. You could be assertive with them as much as you like but they will still be rude and abusive. The best thing (though hard) is to keep well away from them.


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