Why ignore these facts about Obama's birth certificate?

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simon_says
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30 Aug 2012, 2:13 pm

If you are not a Democrat you won't like what Obama has done. Hillary, my choice for candidate, would have pursued very similar policies and they would have hated her too. As they did in the 90s. No question about that. At the end of the day he accomplished more than Clinton's first term. Taxes are still low but the economy has not magically healed. Economists say that at we'll see another 2% drop in unemployment over the next four years.

If you value the success of the United States you'd better hope that the Democrats aren't as obstructionist during the next Republican administration as Republicans have been this time. Else government will continue to be totally paralyzed. If that becomes the new normal then we are in trouble.



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30 Aug 2012, 2:27 pm

Even if the 'birthers' are right, what do they propose to do about it?


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30 Aug 2012, 2:27 pm

simon_says wrote:
If you are not a Democrat you won't like what Obama has done. Hillary, my choice for candidate, would have pursued very similar policies and they would have hated her too. As they did in the 90s. No question about that. At the end of the day he accomplished more than Clinton's first term. Taxes are still low but the economy has not magically healed. Economists say that at we'll see another 2% drop in unemployment over the next four years.

If you value the success of the United States you'd better hope that the Democrats aren't as obstructionist during the next Republican administration as Republicans have been this time. Else government will continue to be totally paralyzed. If that becomes the new normal then we are in trouble.


Back when Reagan was president, the Democrats proved to be good losers, and put the good of the country ahead of ambitions for retaking the White House.

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Dox47
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30 Aug 2012, 2:32 pm

ruveyn wrote:
You might have a point there. If there were an Obama-Prime just like the current Obama but white as snow, we would not have heard a thing about his birth certificate.

ruveyn


I'm not so sure. I think if we had a white guy with a Slavic name and a foreign father and a youth spent traveling around Eastern Europe, there would be similar questions raised. I'm not denying that there is a racial component to birtherism, as their definitely is, but rather contesting the idea that it's the only component. IMHO birtherism isn't even the worst presidential conspiracy theory in recent memory, plenty of people thought W was behind 9/11 or that Clinton was having people whacked left and right, it's pretty common with polarizing figures.


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Dox47
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30 Aug 2012, 2:51 pm

donryanocero wrote:
How so? Seems like most things people cite as grievances against obama, they should really have with congress.


*rubs hands together*

I'm not "most people", and my grievances with Obama are largely things he's done unilaterally, not things he's failed to deliver on because of congressional obstruction. Democratic partisans might buy into that smokescreen (actually, there's no "might" about it), that it's all the stubborn Republicans' fault, but look at what he's done without any help or hindrance from them:

  • Assassinated American citizens without trial or oversight
  • Initiated the largest war on whistleblowers in US history
  • Expanded our conflicts world wide through increasing use of drones
  • Signed indefinite detention into law
  • Launched federal crackdowns on state medical marijuana
  • Expanded every aspect of W's executive power overreach


I could add a lot more, that's just the tip of the iceberg. I don't like his economic theories, but I'm not blaming him for the bad economy. I will blame him for the sorry excuse for a healthcare bill he passed, as he did have a congressional supermajority at the time and could have passed whatever he wanted. I don't like congress either, but that does not make my issues with this president any less legitimate.

So to reiterate, he's either a really shitty president, or a foreign born imposter playing a really shitty president, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference from where I'm standing.


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Dox47
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30 Aug 2012, 2:54 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Me, and almost everyone else in the country.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


So, that's worked out so well for us that there's no reason at all to try and change it? "Everyone's doing it" is a sufficient rationalization for you to continue a destructive behavior?


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30 Aug 2012, 3:02 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Me, and almost everyone else in the country.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


So, that's worked out so well for us that there's no reason at all to try and change it? "Everyone's doing it" is a sufficient rationalization for you to continue a destructive behavior?


Until a third party can legitimately prove to be a contender for the White House, the two party system is the only game in town. And the simple fact is, if the third party were either liberal or conservative, it would only serve to split the vote with the like minded party, allowing the opposing party to skate into victory.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



30 Aug 2012, 3:03 pm

Birthers really need to get a life. Of course they won't until Obama is out of office.........But if you don't like Obama then vote for Romney. If Romney doesn't win, suck it up for the next 4 years and get your sh*t together. Even if he wasn't born in the US, there aint a damn thing your hillbilly asses can do about it, kids! 8)



And no, I don't particularly like Obama either.



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30 Aug 2012, 3:06 pm

Dox47 wrote:
donryanocero wrote:
  • Assassinated American citizens without trial or oversight
  • Initiated the largest war on whistleblowers in US history
  • Expanded our conflicts world wide through increasing use of drones
  • Signed indefinite detention into law
  • Launched federal crackdowns on state medical marijuana
  • Expanded every aspect of W's executive power overreach

.
.


I will vote for him again, despite this list? Why? Because the things that I think are the worst part of his presidency are on this list and are where he is in unfortunate agreement with the Republican party. He isn't a stealth Kenyan or a stealth socialist. He's a stealth Republican. But since he is nominally a Democrat, that keeps him from going even farther to the right. A Republican president would have done everything on that list and more. So I will vote for him not because I agree with any of the actions on that list, but because I fear a Republican president would go even farther.

To Romney's credit, he seems rather more moderate than the rest of his party. Maybe if in office he would move as much to the left as Obama moved to the right but I'm certainly not going to count on that and vote for him because it looks like his party is pushing him to the right just as hard as possible.



naturalplastic
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30 Aug 2012, 3:15 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Well thing is, those running the show don't really seem to give a damn. So my perspective is I have heard of the possibilty of the birth certificate being fake and its believable(since our government blatantly ignores the constitution and its own laws on a regular basis) but since it doesn't appear to make any difference in Obama being president I guess I see no reason to dwell on it.

I mean people can scream about how fake it is all they want and I doubt its really going to effect any government policy.


So, is there any basis at all for you to assume the certificate is fake beyond "He is black" and "government is evil"?

Also, these people "running the show", don't you think their lives would be easier if they chose an American citizen as their puppet president so they wouldn't risk losing the control of everything out of a technicality?


Oh I didn't realize I was assuming the certificate is fake.....I was more saying it probably wouldn't make much difference either way. I mean I doubt he's going to be impeached over such allegations and even if he were its not as though we're going to get someone much better.

And yeah it would make more sense for them to choose an American Citizen....but then again the idea that the birth certificate is fake helps to keep people divided and distracted.

I am kind of confused about when I ever implied that I assume its fake(I said its not unbelievable that it could be, not that I think it is) or that I assumed this because 'he's black' and 'the government is evil(I don't like the government but evil is a subjective term to me). So why you assumed that I am not sure.


Dont blame anyone for being baffled by what you said because what you said didnt make any sense to me either.

Considering I am not really on the 'fake birth certificate' bandwagon, and have no issue with Obama being black...am I supposed to just accept assumptions that I think those things?

The opposite of what you said makes sense.
That ONLY the powerful pretend to care about his birth certificate (like the Donald Trumps of the world). while the rest of us are worried about jobs and healthcare, and the like.

To the rest of us- the fact that obama was born 36 hours before his parents deplaned in the USA ( or the fact that Romney once hazed a gay kid when they were both school boys of 14) doesnt mean squat!

Its up to the ideologues (who look for any straw the can use against whichever candidate theyre gunning for) to persuade US to give a damn. Not the other way around!


Also I am not really sure how this is the opposite of what I said, or how it makes more sense....not to mention what I said was just one idea I had on the matter I wasn't arguing its the absolute truth of the matter. But nevermind I really don't care to make an idiot of myself trying to explain what I meant.


Just sayin that you were asking whether or not the powers at be "care about the issue" when the logical question would be "do I, Sweetleaf, care about this issue?"



Dox47
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30 Aug 2012, 3:30 pm

Janissy wrote:
A Republican president would have done everything on that list and more.


I'm not so sure of that. Are you familiar with the "only Nixon could have gone to China" theory of politics? I think we've been seeing it lately; only W could have signed Medicare Part D, and only Obama could have signed assassination orders.


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Dox47
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30 Aug 2012, 3:31 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Until a third party can legitimately prove to be a contender for the White House, the two party system is the only game in town. And the simple fact is, if the third party were either liberal or conservative, it would only serve to split the vote with the like minded party, allowing the opposing party to skate into victory.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Ever read Catch-22?


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30 Aug 2012, 3:37 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Until a third party can legitimately prove to be a contender for the White House, the two party system is the only game in town. And the simple fact is, if the third party were either liberal or conservative, it would only serve to split the vote with the like minded party, allowing the opposing party to skate into victory.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Ever read Catch-22?


I have not, I'm afraid, but as I had seen a documentary on the novel, I understand the term.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



simon_says
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30 Aug 2012, 4:12 pm

There may be an opportunity for a third party if they have the right candidate. A pre-implosion Ross Perot had that kind of energy. No one since. Without that kind of figure it's just p*ssing in the wind. A personality will have to break through.



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30 Aug 2012, 5:48 pm

FYI ... America does not have a two-party system. At last count, there were over 30 active and registered political parties that could be represented on an American ballot. It is the fact that most of these parties represent too little of the electorate to make much difference in an election that gives people the impression that America has a two-party system. These parties are:

  • America First Party
  • American Party
  • American Populist Party
  • American Third Position Party
  • Americans Elect
  • America's Party
  • Christian Liberty Party
  • Citizens Party of the United States
  • Communist Party of the United States of America
  • Constitution Party
  • Democratic Party
  • Freedom Socialist Party
  • Green Party
  • Independence Party of America
  • Independent American Party
  • Jefferson Republican Party
  • Justice Party
  • Labor Party
  • Libertarian Party
  • Modern Whig Party
  • National Socialist Movement
  • Objectivist Party
  • Party for Socialism and Liberation
  • Peace and Freedom Party
  • Prohibition Party
  • Raza Unida Party
  • Reform Party of the United States of America
  • Republican Party
  • Socialist Action
  • Socialist Alternative
  • Socialist Equality Party
  • Socialist Party USA
  • Socialist Workers Party
  • United States Marijuana Party
  • United States Pacifist Party
  • United States Pirate Party
  • Unity Party of America
  • Workers World Party
This list does not include independents (no political affiliation) as a political party.

SOURCE

NOTE: This list does not include literally hundreds of regional and local parties that spring up sporadically, only to fade away after an election.


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30 Aug 2012, 6:24 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
But why would you believe such a thing about the President, if you don't have a racial axe to grind?

Because you have a non-racial axe to grind?


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