Page 2 of 4 [ 63 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Hopper
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,908
Location: North Wayels

28 Aug 2012, 3:31 am

John_Browning wrote:
Hopper wrote:
No, they don't choose.

I've always liked Gore Vidal's formulation - 'there are no homosexual or heterosexual people, only homosexual and heterosexual acts'.

That would make it a choice.


No it wouldn't. Vidal was making a remark against categorisation.



tuffy
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 170

28 Aug 2012, 8:30 am

I was gay for many years before I had sex, and I will still be gay until the day I die, even if I never have sex again. If someone experiments with gay sex, that does not make them gay.


_________________
All hail Fred! m(_ _)m


naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,535
Location: temperate zone

28 Aug 2012, 11:05 am

6655321 wrote:
People generally choose to have gay sex or straight sex (or both at the same time or different times). They very probably make that decision based upon what sexually excites them.

People generally choose to have romance with their own gender or another (or both at the same time or different times). They very probably make that decision based upon what romantically excites them.


So they dont choose "what excites them". But they do choose whether or not act on what on "excites them". Is that what you are saying?



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 44,488
Location: Stendec

28 Aug 2012, 2:20 pm

Tiranasta wrote:
People choose to act on their homosexuality. I don't believe they choose whether or not to BE homosexual.

Corrected: "People choose to act on their sexuality. I don't believe they choose whether or not to BE sexual."

:D


_________________
 
Since there is no singular, absolute definition of human nature,
nor any ultimate evaluation of human nature beyond that which we project onto others,
individuals should be judged or defined only by their actions and choices,
and not by what we only imagine their intentions and motivations to be.


Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 41,780
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

28 Aug 2012, 2:54 pm

tuffy wrote:
I was gay for many years before I had sex, and I will still be gay until the day I die, even if I never have sex again. If someone experiments with gay sex, that does not make them gay.


As I had mentioned already, my Best Man at my wedding - who is also one of my oldest friends - describes himself as being gay his whole life. Even when he had engaged in straight sex in the years before coming out, he said in his heart he always knew he was gay.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



thomas81
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 May 2012
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,147
Location: County Down, Northern Ireland

28 Aug 2012, 3:15 pm

Jitro wrote:
What do you think?

I think the "why would anyone choose to be "gay" because of all the hatred they get" is a poor argument against such being a choice. People choose to skateboard despite all the injuries they wind up getting. People make odd choices.


What a horrible analogy. People skateboard because of the adrenaline rush of skateboarding, the feeling of accomplishment at 'becoming good at it' or whatever sense of self satisfaction they get from it.

Homosexuals are homosexual because they are neurologically programmed to be attracted to the same sex. They don't choose to be gay anymore than we choose to be autistic.

Quite frankly i'm disgusted we would see such pig ignorance on an autism forum, of all places.



thomas81
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 May 2012
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,147
Location: County Down, Northern Ireland

28 Aug 2012, 3:17 pm

Tiranasta wrote:
People choose to act on their homosexuality. I don't believe they choose whether or not to BE homosexual.


BS. They act on their homosexuality for the same reason that heterosexuals 'act' on their heterosexuality. They aren't wired to be attracted to the opposite sex but still crave the intimacy that anyone else does.



Tiranasta
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Posts: 278

28 Aug 2012, 3:20 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Tiranasta wrote:
People choose to act on their homosexuality. I don't believe they choose whether or not to BE homosexual.


BS. They act on their homosexuality for the same reason that heterosexuals 'act' on their heterosexuality. They aren't wired to be attracted to the opposite sex but still crave the intimacy that anyone else does.


Yes. Feel free to point out exactly where I said anything to the contrary.



SpiritBlooms
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Nov 2009
Age: 64
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,024

28 Aug 2012, 3:27 pm

visagrunt wrote:
I think the better argument is, "do people choose to be straight?"
Yes! In fact there's a great video of someone interviewing people on the street, asking them when they chose to be straight. :)



thomas81
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 May 2012
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,147
Location: County Down, Northern Ireland

28 Aug 2012, 3:30 pm

Tiranasta wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Tiranasta wrote:
People choose to act on their homosexuality. I don't believe they choose whether or not to BE homosexual.


BS. They act on their homosexuality for the same reason that heterosexuals 'act' on their heterosexuality. They aren't wired to be attracted to the opposite sex but still crave the intimacy that anyone else does.


Yes. Feel free to point out exactly where I said anything to the contrary.


I don't agree with the idea that homosexual acts in principal, are a 'choice' in themselves. When a heterosexual begins a sexual relationship no one would subscribe to the idea that they are 'choosing' in the principle understanding of the word to do so. It is a biological function, not a choice in any sense of the word. They do so because they have an inherent emotional need for intimacy and aren't attracted to the same sex and at no point was a choice involved. It cuts both ways. IMO voluntary chastity is an unnatural practice.



Tiranasta
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Posts: 278

28 Aug 2012, 3:33 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Tiranasta wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Tiranasta wrote:
People choose to act on their homosexuality. I don't believe they choose whether or not to BE homosexual.


BS. They act on their homosexuality for the same reason that heterosexuals 'act' on their heterosexuality. They aren't wired to be attracted to the opposite sex but still crave the intimacy that anyone else does.


Yes. Feel free to point out exactly where I said anything to the contrary.


I don't agree with the idea that homosexual acts in principal, are a 'choice' in themselves. When a heterosexual begins a sexual relationship no one would subscribe to the idea that they are 'choosing' in the principle understanding of the word to do so. It is a biological function, not a choice in any sense of the word. They do so because they have an inherent emotional need for intimacy and aren't attracted to the same sex. It cuts both ways. IMO voluntary chastity is an unnatural practice.


Then we are arguing over semantics. To me, even eating is a choice. Regarding your last sentence, I'm curious, what if the person is asexual?



thomas81
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 May 2012
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,147
Location: County Down, Northern Ireland

28 Aug 2012, 3:39 pm

Tiranasta wrote:
Then we are arguing over semantics. To me, even eating is a choice. Regarding your last sentence, I'm curious, what if the person is asexual?


You have a strange idea of choice in a binary situation where one scenario ends in death. I've always thought of eating as a act we are naturally co-erced into doing.

In the case of person being asexual, again their lack of sexual attraction is wired into their brain, so again no choice is involved. When i am talking about voluntary chastity im talking about those who do it usually for religious reasons. Here in Ireland, we've seen the disastrous repurcussions, what with paedophile priests.



Tiranasta
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Posts: 278

28 Aug 2012, 3:45 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Tiranasta wrote:
Then we are arguing over semantics. To me, even eating is a choice. Regarding your last sentence, I'm curious, what if the person is asexual?


You have a strange idea of choice in a binary situation where one scenario ends in death.

In the case of person being asexual, again their lack of sexual attraction is wired into their brain, so again no choice is involved.

The way I view it, if two or more options exist and one (or a subset) must be selected, a choice is present, even if all options but one are obviously untenable. I believe that this is consistent with the dictionary definition of choice.



thomas81
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 May 2012
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,147
Location: County Down, Northern Ireland

28 Aug 2012, 3:48 pm

Tiranasta wrote:
The way I view it, if two or more options exist and one (or a subset) must be selected, a choice is present, even if all options but one are obviously untenable. I believe that this is consistent with the dictionary definition of choice.

Its my personal philosophy, to me choice and co-ercion are not equal. If a criminal points a gun at your head for the purposes of controlling you, they are robbing you of your free will/choice. In the case of eating nature is doing the same thing.

As for the points about nature and chastity, see my last edit.



AceOfSpades
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,754
Location: Sean Penn, Cambodia

28 Aug 2012, 4:07 pm

Did I choose to be right handed? I mean, nothing's stopping me from using my left hand so how can I possibly have a natural inclination one way or the other?



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,535
Location: temperate zone

28 Aug 2012, 4:37 pm

Tiranasta wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Tiranasta wrote:
Then we are arguing over semantics. To me, even eating is a choice. Regarding your last sentence, I'm curious, what if the person is asexual?


You have a strange idea of choice in a binary situation where one scenario ends in death.

In the case of person being asexual, again their lack of sexual attraction is wired into their brain, so again no choice is involved.

The way I view it, if two or more options exist and one (or a subset) must be selected, a choice is present, even if all options but one are obviously untenable. I believe that this is consistent with the dictionary definition of choice.


So..if you agree to do something against your will because I have a gun pointed at your head then your decision to obey me rather than die is a "choice".

Is that what you are saying?