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Adamantium
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26 Sep 2015, 11:29 am

dianthus wrote:
I definitely have theory of mind deficits. I tend to automatically assume that other people think and perceive things the same way I do, and still get horrible surprises sometimes when I find out that they don't.

Most of the time, I don't have much idea how other people perceive me, unless they tell me directly, or make it obvious in some other way. Sometimes I can extrapolate it based on past experience, but this is different from having real-time discernment.


That is exactly how I find things. I am often very surprised by how different the perceptions and thoughts of others are.

I have a large vocabulary and was accustomed to use it with precision. My parents were literary people and I grew up hearing and reading a lot of archaic English. As a child, I may have employed some turns of phrase that were more Edwardian than modern. I believe people thought of me as pompous or pedantic because of that.

In college, I realized what was happening when I overheard two instructors saying negative things about me. I deliberately simplified my speech and peppered it with filler words. Like, you know, kinda talked about the thing without the, like, precision that I used to use. My grades went from a C to an A. I have continued to speak in this imprecise and clumsy way ever since and I believe it has been helpful at school and work.

It was harder to adjust my written style to suit the demands of the situation, but a general guide has been to keep the tone and language as simple as possible and always err on the side of sacrificing precision and subtlety of meaning for simplicity and brevity.



NowhereWoman
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26 Sep 2015, 12:24 pm

When I was young the other kids thought I was a "snot/snob" because of how shy I was about saying hello and how I always had my nose in a book, and because of how I talked. I got picked on very badly for it.

As an adult, people don't generally think I'm pompous except in writing. I realize I do get "professor"-ish (not an intelligence thing, BTW, I am very average intelligence-wise) when I'm making a point, or trying to, especially when it's in writing/on the internet, so I always make an effort to just sound (so to speak) normal on the internet or when making a point in person. I use far fewer words and I just...leave out that high-horse-ness (or what it's interpreted as), if that makes any sense.

Just recently on this forum, I was starting to get "into it" with an NT person, who was attempting the very things that I realize make me sound pompous (or perhaps was doing so unconsciously...I should be fair about that point), so I simply begged off and let him have his way rather than pinpointing exactly where he was wrong and why, taking apart the areas where he was obviously manipulating with his words, etc. as I knew exactly how I'd sound, and I just...didn't want to sound that way. I preferred just letting him feel he was right to getting into my "professor zone," which is just never attractive to anybody, in any capacity. :D

It's not that I'm bowing down to conformity or that I "just want to be liked" or anything like that (usually)...it's that at a certain point, the person takes such offense to my tone (even though it's my natural tone) that s/he no longer even hears what I'm saying, meaning the communication is over, and at that point, what use is it to anybody, including myself?



olympiadis
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26 Sep 2015, 2:22 pm

Adamantium wrote:
In college, I realized what was happening when I overheard two instructors saying negative things about me. I deliberately simplified my speech and peppered it with filler words. Like, you know, kinda talked about the thing without the, like, precision that I used to use. My grades went from a C to an A. I have continued to speak in this imprecise and clumsy way ever since and I believe it has been helpful at school and work.


That is horrible that the hive mind forces you to dumb down your transfer of information in favor of being more serving of the perceived hierarchal positions of the identities of others.



olympiadis
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26 Sep 2015, 2:29 pm

This is yet another great example of social punishment and rewards based on one's conformity to the rules of the hive mind, and the ordered operation within hierarchies.



nick007
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27 Sep 2015, 1:06 am

People do NOT think I'm pompous. I'm not that intelligent, I'm quiet, I try to be nice & respectful, & I'm open minded.


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olympiadis
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27 Sep 2015, 1:30 am

nick007 wrote:
People do NOT think I'm pompous. I'm not that intelligent, I'm quiet, I try to be nice & respectful, & I'm open minded.



Oh, you think you're nice, respectful, and open-minded. You must think you're better than me.
Therefore you are pompous.

I wouldn't be so sure about how people might be thinking of you.
I've been wrong many times in the past because I don't do that bit of identity based "reasoning" above, but most people I know do.



Aristophanes
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27 Sep 2015, 1:07 pm

Adamantium wrote:
In college, I realized what was happening when I overheard two instructors saying negative things about me. I deliberately simplified my speech and peppered it with filler words. Like, you know, kinda talked about the thing without the, like, precision that I used to use. My grades went from a C to an A. I have continued to speak in this imprecise and clumsy way ever since and I believe it has been helpful at school and work.


Wow, your instructors had major inferiority complexes at work. Most of my college professors loved my use of jargon and precision syntax. The college classroom is the only place I've ever felt welcome.

As for the post I have no idea how others view me, but I've never been called pompous. I've had a few people say "you don't know everything." My reply in those situations is purposefully pompous: "True. But I spend hours each day studying to increase my understanding and knowledge, do you? Exactly. So who do you think has a higher chance of being correct? I'm always up for a competition if you want to test your knowledge base against mine." This is obviously not the "socially appropriate" way of handling the situation but it shuts up the vast majority of people. Besides, the ol' "you don't know everything" tactic is mainly employed when you're arguing evidence to another person's uneducated opinion and the socially inappropriate response highlights that.



em_tsuj
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28 Sep 2015, 10:54 pm

Yes...and I am. I can't help it.



voleregard
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29 Sep 2015, 10:07 am

I got called arrogant. I think it generally makes NT people uncomfortable if they don't know what you're thinking. They're always trying to find out what you're thinking and they will always be trying to determine that from your words and body language.

So the blank stares we give, or the quietness, or the words they don't understand, instead of assigning neutral value to it as we intend, they are hard-wired to assign some meaning to it because that's what they do, they communicate their feelings about others in subtext, so they think we're doing the same. They're trying to figure out who's above who in rank and wondering what I'm saying about them when I talk, even if I have no intention of saying anything about them.

If I have no intention of communicating anything about them, thinking I'm "relating" through the fact that we're conversing, that is still read as coldness, because I'm not engaging them through my words or body language. Coldness is interpreted by the NT as pompous and arrogant, therefore, my attitude is read as such. Or if I'm using complex, precise words, it is interpreted by them as what they'd be doing if they used those words: trying to look smarter than they really are, therefore pompous and arrogant. They can't understand a situation where someone would talk like that just for the sake of being clear in conversation.



olympiadis
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29 Sep 2015, 1:24 pm

voleregard wrote:
I got called arrogant. I think it generally makes NT people uncomfortable if they don't know what you're thinking. They're always trying to find out what you're thinking and they will always be trying to determine that from your words and body language.

So the blank stares we give, or the quietness, or the words they don't understand, instead of assigning neutral value to it as we intend, they are hard-wired to assign some meaning to it because that's what they do, they communicate their feelings about others in subtext, so they think we're doing the same. They're trying to figure out who's above who in rank and wondering what I'm saying about them when I talk, even if I have no intention of saying anything about them.

If I have no intention of communicating anything about them, thinking I'm "relating" through the fact that we're conversing, that is still read as coldness, because I'm not engaging them through my words or body language. Coldness is interpreted by the NT as pompous and arrogant, therefore, my attitude is read as such. Or if I'm using complex, precise words, it is interpreted by them as what they'd be doing if they used those words: trying to look smarter than they really are, therefore pompous and arrogant. They can't understand a situation where someone would talk like that just for the sake of being clear in conversation.



Yes, exactly.
They are unable to perceive anything outside of the social filters that they have always been embedded within and an active part of.



whatamess
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29 Sep 2015, 1:37 pm

Some people think I am. They also claim that this is because of my intolerance towards certain people. Funny, that intolerance is usually towards those who treat autistics like crap, including those who think I'm pompous. I could are less at this point.



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29 Sep 2015, 2:06 pm

Even my own loving Fiancee recently told me how while she knows better, I come across as pompous and arrogant. I still can't figure out why even after she tried explaining it. For example, I mentioned to someone I got a 96 average in my recent college courses and I was later told that was pompous and arrogant. WTF? It's an objective fact!



voleregard
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29 Sep 2015, 5:03 pm

GiantHockeyFan wrote:
I mentioned to someone I got a 96 average in my recent college courses and I was later told that was pompous and arrogant. WTF? It's an objective fact!

Yes, and objective facts shared within a social context without being transmitted in relational terms by use of inclusive and inviting wording and body language will be perceived as cold, and therefore pompous and arrogant. Not saying it's right or wrong, but I learned the hard way that this is just the playing field that's out there. Watch a video of Richard Feynman teaching, and you'll see someone overcoming the potential barriers of facts by injecting a relational tone to them.

Objective facts hold no bridge-building power in relationship. And an NT will always be extracting "relationship" data from anything we say, either to determine status or subtext or whether you're trying to include them or exclude them with what we say. Because that's how they're hard-wired. The non-science world loved Feynman (and Carl Sagan) because they were able to build that bridge beyond facts to make it a sharing relationship.

There is no dispassionate fact-sharing in the NT world unless you're content with being regarded as a lifeless robot. Or being called a poindexter. That's how they will see us because they inject their hierarchical perspective and relationship seeking into every interaction they have. And if they see you as someone who shares facts and doesn't care how that will affect them, they'll interpret that as pompous or arrogant or conceited.



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30 Sep 2015, 6:43 am

Maybe this is why I get along so well with children, particularly babies and toddlers so well. No hidden meanings, no interpretations, and they actually like to learn facts and knowledge. How the %$#^ are you supposed to "care about" how an objective, verifiable fact makes someone feel? It is what it is?

Wrong planet indeed.



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30 Sep 2015, 6:48 am

Oddly enough, not in real life because I come across as warm face-to face. Online I probably come across as colder and probably pompous when I'm expounding on my opinions in a deep-level way that you normally don't really get into in-depth in many real life conversations, or even if you do, facial expressions, tone of voice and body language can help your friend see that your opinions and beliefs about deep stuff are not as ass-like as they would sound "on paper."
Having said that, sometimes I'm deliberately being an ass because something or someone has pissed me off, lol.



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30 Sep 2015, 3:40 pm

My family tells me that it's my fault for them acting pompous. I try not to act pompous, but my family expects me to act pompous in the same manner they do.


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